Unsettling american economic bail out bill

[Juliette]

And anyway...I thought I made it clear that morons are from *every* social class...just because you can pay yourself good studies doesn't make you necessarly intelligent!

Investing in the wood...hmm...I thought you didn't like humans destroying forests.

true but the annoying this is that a person born to a more prosperous family will surpass a equallly clever poor person in terms of education (generally on average). yes idiots are from all classes though definitely.

im investing in goats.

A child of well-educated parents is more likely to develop quickly and more effectively themselves.
No, not saying it is genetic, just that educated parents are more likely to properly stimulate an intellectually gifted child so as to develop their knowledge, critical thinking and other skills far quicker and more extensively as their ghetto or trailer-dwelling 'equals'. So while yes, perhaps, hypothetically, all humans are born equal (which is untrue, as evidenced by genetically distorted humans being born just like a normal human baby), their initial phase of development is completely different in each respective class. Without saying that upper class development is better, I will say this.. Mozart > Trash Music. Bad example? Clearly there's better ones around.

LiQuiD, I do share your opinion that each class has their idiots. Higher and Upper Class tend to be more adept at 'silencing'/'normalising' their eccentric 'idiot' behaviour, whereas lower classes tend to have complete disregard for these misunderstood people.
Trust me, my grandparents were extremely good at 'correcting' people.


Jim; investing in wood is something else as 'cutting down square miles and miles of forest'. Our investments and efforts in that niche are climatologically positive. Investing in coal and iron ore is a tad different, but the lumber net climatological worth is sufficient to cope with those more damaging activities.



Back to the Global Economy failing, that is (and I will say it again) due to the unrest-provoking anti-globalist terrorist scum. If it would work, one would almost ask for nerve gas intervention at such 'rallies'. But that would be pushing it, and since we're actually nice people, we just ask for them to be arrested and corrected. Yay, for justice.

[Cole]

Hmmm well by personal experience, I can tell you educated parents aren't always linked with "having money to pay good studies for their children"...
Sadly, middle class with little money exist too.. <_<
Not only lower classes being poor, sadly.


If there was to punish people, as everyone agrees, it's those people acting border markets laws and using everyone illegal trick to get some money and scam others(there was this thing about people being scammed for shares meant to be sure, while in fact it was of one of those dropping firms, so they lost all their money later, I think it was Lehman Bros shares, or perhaps another firm). Or that story about AIG owners using part of federal help for their own holidays.
Control trades with countries like Monaco, Caiman Islands etc...that would helpsolving it.

It's not those ants, the anti globalistation people that are doing anything lol...it's overestimating them clearly and scapegoating! Please...
Noone mentions them in reasons of the crisis. Being liberals, centrists, democrats or socialists eco experts.
One of true reasons of the crisis is you cant create money out of money alone.

[Juliette]

Hmmm well by personal experience, I can tell you educated parents aren't always linked with "having money to pay good studies for their children"...
Sadly, middle class with little money exist too.. <_<
Not only lower classes being poor, sadly.

Which is why I clearly defined my groups as higher and upper class, instead of lower and middle class.
When I say "lower classes", I refer to them from my point of view, which is pretty much higher/upper class. (Yeah, I know.. it would make a [rather big] diff whether you'd check that class based on my father or my grandfather.)


And I wasn't talking "having money to pay good studies for their children", but "stimulating them properly" which is quite different. It consists of not sending your kids to some backward school right after they speak their first words, or right after they breathe on their own. It consists of listening to good music together, reading books that are just too difficult for your child, caring for them, being there enough and having both a male and a female parent around for at least 2 contact hours a day, with a preference to female parenting until age 3 for 14 hours a day.
Good parenting consists of teaching your children a lot before eventually sending them off to school. The least your kid needs to have learnt before going to public school (if you cannot afford a proper school, that is), is "talk, walk, clothe, read, write and fight". Is that asking too much? Perhaps, but that is not the point. Point is that you strive to allow your kid to grow and develop as properly and as effectively as possible.
(Allow me to elaborate on the "fight" part. Intellectually strong children are often physically weaker as their fellows. To counter that, allow for your child to train with objects that are actually heavier as those they can lift easily, but keep ergonomics in mind and do not let them affect their physical development in 'off' ways. A spinal mal-growth can cause your child to walk funny, which you want to prevent. "Fight" is nothing more as being a social alpha in any group they are put in.)
Picking good schools is secondary to that, but almost as important.

When picking schools, remember that having your child educated in a stimulating environment is far better as having them educated in a dump. Sure, a dump can be interesting, but it will halt and hinder the intellectual growth of your child. As soon as possible, ask for your child to be allowed to join a higher year instead of sitting with their equally aged friends. Kids that are more developed are more likely (note: NO guarantee) to have a positive effect on your kid's development as kids who are just as stumped (or even more, since your kid had good basic education at home) as them.
Remember that money is irrelevant to finding a good school. If you have to sell your cars, carpool with your childless bachelor brother until your child has aged enough for them to work for their education. The last thing you want is for your child to enter the working world fully educated, but without any working ethos.

Always send your child to University upon successful (cum laude) graduation from high school. If necessary, pay for it yourself, but look for ways to have your child work for their education themselves without it being too much of a strain on them.
Never allow your child access to their trust fund until they have earned 10.000 Eu on their own. Once they have reached that, they will have the experience, the ethos and the education to make it very far in this world and to be re-introduced to the rest of the family with pride as a full member.


Ah well.. I do agree. This kind of educative path isn't suitable for everyone. Sadly, there is too much governmental interference in education, forcing mentally retarded kids (no judgement, just fact) to be accepted in the same classes as your own children. If I had kids, I would be disgusted by the idea of having such children slow down the development of my own children.
Yes, I would protest. It is a child's right for a proper education. That excludes such disabling influences as backwards children from being close to my kid.
But I rant.



Anyway.. we were talking about the bailout bill. The US Government is mingling in things they should leave to the main bankers. The current system is functional and alive, and if not for the government buying banks and financial institutions, the families would have easily saved the day. Darned monopoly laws.

[Cole]

Hmmm well by personal experience, I can tell you educated parents aren't always linked with "having money to pay good studies for their children"...
Sadly, middle class with little money exist too.. <_<
Not only lower classes being poor, sadly.

Which is why I clearly defined my groups as higher and upper class, instead of lower and middle class.
When I say "lower classes", I refer to them from my point of view, which is pretty much higher/upper class. (Yeah, I know.. it would make a [rather big] diff whether you'd check that class based on my father or my grandfather.)


And I wasn't talking "having money to pay good studies for their children", but "stimulating them properly" which is quite different. It consists of not sending your kids to some backward school right after they speak their first words, or right after they breathe on their own. It consists of listening to good music together, reading books that are just too difficult for your child, caring for them, being there enough and having both a male and a female parent around for at least 2 contact hours a day, with a preference to female parenting until age 3 for 14 hours a day.
Good parenting consists of teaching your children a lot before eventually sending them off to school. The least your kid needs to have learnt before going to public school (if you cannot afford a proper school, that is), is "talk, walk, clothe, read, write and fight". Is that asking too much? Perhaps, but that is not the point. Point is that you strive to allow your kid to grow and develop as properly and as effectively as possible.
(Allow me to elaborate on the "fight" part. Intellectually strong children are often physically weaker as their fellows. To counter that, allow for your child to train with objects that are actually heavier as those they can lift easily, but keep ergonomics in mind and do not let them affect their physical development in 'off' ways. A spinal mal-growth can cause your child to walk funny, which you want to prevent. "Fight" is nothing more as being a social alpha in any group they are put in.)
Picking good schools is secondary to that, but almost as important.

When picking schools, remember that having your child educated in a stimulating environment is far better as having them educated in a dump. Sure, a dump can be interesting, but it will halt and hinder the intellectual growth of your child. As soon as possible, ask for your child to be allowed to join a higher year instead of sitting with their equally aged friends. Kids that are more developed are more likely (note: NO guarantee) to have a positive effect on your kid's development as kids who are just as stumped (or even more, since your kid had good basic education at home) as them.
Remember that money is irrelevant to finding a good school. If you have to sell your cars, carpool with your childless bachelor brother until your child has aged enough for them to work for their education. The last thing you want is for your child to enter the working world fully educated, but without any working ethos.

Always send your child to University upon successful (cum laude) graduation from high school. If necessary, pay for it yourself, but look for ways to have your child work for their education themselves without it being too much of a strain on them.
Never allow your child access to their trust fund until they have earned 10.000 Eu on their own. Once they have reached that, they will have the experience, the ethos and the education to make it very far in this world and to be re-introduced to the rest of the family with pride as a full member.


Ah well.. I do agree. This kind of educative path isn't suitable for everyone. Sadly, there is too much governmental interference in education, forcing mentally retarded kids (no judgement, just fact) to be accepted in the same classes as your own children. If I had kids, I would be disgusted by the idea of having such children slow down the development of my own children.
Yes, I would protest. It is a child's right for a proper education. That excludes such disabling influences as backwards children from being close to my kid.
But I rant.



Anyway.. we were talking about the bailout bill. The US Government is mingling in things they should leave to the main bankers. The current system is functional and alive, and if not for the government buying banks and financial institutions, the families would have easily saved the day. Darned monopoly laws.

I wish I could say anything but "sadly" I agree with almost *everything* you said!
My parents learnt me to read before I go to babies school (should I have went there? I don't know), and I was only one knowing alphabet there!
Sadly later, because of governement's education map forcing kids to stay in their city schools, it corrupted my mind and I met exactly the kind of children you wouldn't want to have as your child's friends. They made me dislike having good results, because stupid>intelligent people in this school, and majority always win as we know <_<... I don't know however, what you do consider as "good music", if it's calssical, well, my environment made me dislike much this music, so it was too late for my mother trying to make me like this. But I was sent to school, like everyone was in this damn place, at 3...
I got to agree my secondary and my high school were crap. Not because of teachers, but because of students being there. A really bad environment to be motivated to work.
So yes, I went to dumps...because of my principal's advice to my parents for high school, for example >_<.
Teachers said I should do better than I did for picking studies, but I was corrupted by the filth of the idiots' world and it was too late to save anything in me

My parents did a good education on me considering what you said, as much as they could, and as much as my corrupted mind let them do in my teenage. Problem was that damn public school. One of main reasons I plan to continue my studies with political sciences/history to hope becoming a politic later, and propose solutions to clean all the crap out of public school. I'll have no choice then, but go for centre right/right wing party if I want it to happen

[S0lid Snake]

http://www.dailynewscaster.com/2008/10/ ... glen-beck/

Folks, back on track.

Why does nobody care that everything IS changing as we speak...?

What will it take for you to see the bigger picture here...

Wayne Madsen a Washington based investigative journalist, author, columnist and former U.S. Naval Officer reported on April 3rd, 2008 the existence of a document called the “C & R” document is being passed around among senior members of Congress and their staff.

Bush planning martial law

FEMA sources have told Madsen today that the Bush administration is putting final touches on a plan that would initiate martial law in the event of continuing economic collapse causing massive social unrest, bank closures resulting in violence against financial institutions and another fraudulent presidential election that would result in rioting in major cities and campuses around the country.

Troops on American streets

In addition to FEMA sources, Army Corps of Engineer sources report that the assignment of the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade to NorthCom to augment FEMA and federal law enforcement for the purpose of traffic control, crowd control, curfews, enhanced border and port security, and neighborhood patrols in the event a national emergency being declared.

America may default on it’s loans

The “C & R” document reportedly states that if the United States defaults on loans and debt underwritten from China, Japan and Russia and America unilaterally cancels the debts, America can expect a war that will have disastrous results for the United States and the world.

“Conflict” is the “C word” in the document.

Washington fears a popular Revolution

The other possibility discussed in the document is that the federal government will be forced to drastically raise taxes in order to pay off debts to foreign countries to the point that the American people will react with a popular revolution against the government.

“Revolution” is the document’s “R” word.

Wayne Madsen reported the existence of the “C & R” document on April 3rd, 2008. The new information is the contingency plan being finalized by the Bush administration to initiate Continuity of Government by suspending The Constitution and declaring martial law in the event of a “crisis.”

Assigning the 1st Brigade, 3rd Infantry Division to NorthCom is a step toward implementation of the “Conflict & Revolution” document.

[Juliette]

Ah, thanks SS.

That sounds like a solid plan, aside from defaulting on the debts. That doesn't mean 'war', that means USA is no longer an entity of value.



Anyone else see this situation as -finally- the collapse of democracy? As it was said, all government systems are ultimately flawed. This is then the end of democracy, much like the late 80's, early 90's were for communism.
Long live the King.

[Cole]

Ah, thanks SS.

That sounds like a solid plan, aside from defaulting on the debts. That doesn't mean 'war', that means USA is no longer an entity of value.



Anyone else see this situation as -finally- the collapse of democracy? As it was said, all government systems are ultimately flawed. This is then the end of democracy, much like the late 80's, early 90's were for communism.
Long live the King.

lol, end of democracy...that's a funny one.
There's nothing to replace it properly anyway so I don't see it happen at all...perhaps a "limitated democracy", but nothing else available afterall.

May I ask why the -finally- being used? It suggests that it's a good riddance, and unless I'm wrong, there's nothing better in this world than democracy, so it's really a wrong way to think. Or perhaps do I read too much between the lines?

Anyone thinking anything else than democracy would work in evolved countries are living in utopia. A democracy with more controls is alright for me, but changing the system would cause obviously bigger problems than it would solve, by far.

[Juliette]

lol, end of democracy...that's a funny one.
There's nothing to replace it properly anyway so I don't see it happen at all...perhaps a "limitated democracy", but nothing else available afterall.

May I ask why the -finally- being used? It suggests that it's a good riddance, and unless I'm wrong, there's nothing better in this world than democracy, so it's really a wrong way to think.

What have I been saying all this time?

Democracy needs a replacement.
Why? Because like everything else, democracy has an expiration date. As it should.

Since this is not relevant to the discussion, I will not elaborate further, as I have done this often elsewhere and had my fun with that. If by now it is not yet clear what system I stand for, that is not my fault nor responsibility.


Democracy was the 'best working system' (to say it is 'the best thing in the world', that is plain horsecrap, for various reasons), now it needs to be replaced. Simple as that. Fail. For democracy.

K, so let's get back to the bailout bill.
I am shocked to see how fast Iceland went bankrupt. When will some nation/state annex that island?

[Cole]

lol, end of democracy...that's a funny one.
There's nothing to replace it properly anyway so I don't see it happen at all...perhaps a "limitated democracy", but nothing else available afterall.

May I ask why the -finally- being used? It suggests that it's a good riddance, and unless I'm wrong, there's nothing better in this world than democracy, so it's really a wrong way to think.

What have I been saying all this time?

Democracy needs a replacement.
Why? Because like everything else, democracy has an expiration date. As it should.

Since this is not relevant to the discussion, I will not elaborate further, as I have done this often elsewhere and had my fun with that. If by now it is not yet clear what system I stand for, that is not my fault nor responsibility.


Democracy was the 'best working system' (to say it is 'the best thing in the world', that is plain horsecrap, for various reasons), now it needs to be replaced. Simple as that. Fail. For democracy.

K, so let's get back to the bailout bill.
I am shocked to see how fast Iceland went bankrupt. When will some nation/state annex that island?

What do you support? Dictatorship? Makes me wonder why people not being for democracy live in democracies...oh well, something that is beyond me since I'm not concerned I guess! If I was not for a democracy, as my president said, "You like it (france), or you quit it", I would do what like he tells to every people unhappy of how France is ran, and quit it. Logical to me that is..
Democracy isn't over yet, people cry the end all the time that an event happens.


The difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is that in dictatorship the citizen are feeling useless, and are useless. So, I presume people in favour of dictatorship like to feel and be useless?
Don't ask how I came with it, it's pretty obvious..

[papa~smurf]

lol, end of democracy...that's a funny one.
There's nothing to replace it properly anyway so I don't see it happen at all...perhaps a "limitated democracy", but nothing else available afterall.

May I ask why the -finally- being used? It suggests that it's a good riddance, and unless I'm wrong, there's nothing better in this world than democracy, so it's really a wrong way to think.

What have I been saying all this time?

Democracy needs a replacement.
Why? Because like everything else, democracy has an expiration date. As it should.

Since this is not relevant to the discussion, I will not elaborate further, as I have done this often elsewhere and had my fun with that. If by now it is not yet clear what system I stand for, that is not my fault nor responsibility.


Democracy was the 'best working system' (to say it is 'the best thing in the world', that is plain horsecrap, for various reasons), now it needs to be replaced. Simple as that. Fail. For democracy.

K, so let's get back to the bailout bill.
I am shocked to see how fast Iceland went bankrupt. When will some nation/state annex that island?

What do you support? Dictatorship? Makes me wonder why people not being for democracy live in democracies...oh well, something that is beyond me since I'm not concerned I guess! If I was not for a democracy, as my president said, "You like it (france), or you quit it", I would do what like he tells to every people unhappy of how France is ran, and quit it. Logical to me that is..
Democracy isn't over yet, people cry the end all the time that an event happens.


The difference between a dictatorship and a democracy is that in dictatorship the citizen are feeling useless, and are useless. So, I presume people in favour of dictatorship like to feel and be useless?
Don't ask how I came with it, it's pretty obvious..

Democracy and the bailout have little in common. In fact, the bail out is the opposite of Democracy. The euro mode of government buying up banks, will lead to less Democracy in tthe USA if it happens. Democracy, it not about numbers, other than the number of people who believe in some thing. Democracy is about the right to have a say, and as an american, right now i feel my say on this issue is not going to be heard, much less asked for. But of course, as americans, we have the right to do some thing about it, for now.

Lois Lane wrote:
It consists of not sending your kids to some backward school right after they speak their first words, or right after they breathe on their own. It consists of listening to good music together, reading books that are just too difficult for your child, caring for them, being there enough and having both a male and a female parent around for at least 2 contact hours a day, with a preference to female parenting until age 3 for 14 hours a day.

do tell, how many children have u personally raised and what are they doing now ?

[Juliette]

Aye, P-S.
I think that's why it is called a 'bail-out' and not a 'solution'.

It's kind of like an economic bypass (cardiosurgeon-oldskool).. your heart keeps working, blood keeps flowing, but somewhere in your body you have less arteries. Whether you will feel these effects remains to be seen after the whole 'rescue plan' is executed.



@Education question: None, since I figure a nephew doesn't count? While my words may sound absolute and such, they are not and should not be read as such. It is merely my 'theory of education', an ideal way which I would like to see come true. It is based heavily on my own education, which I feel has had its basic success.

[papa~smurf]

Aye, P-S.
I think that's why it is called a 'bail-out' and not a 'solution'.

It's kind of like an economic bypass (cardiosurgeon-oldskool).. your heart keeps working, blood keeps flowing, but somewhere in your body you have less arteries. Whether you will feel these effects remains to be seen after the whole 'rescue plan' is executed.



@Education question: None, since I figure a nephew doesn't count? While my words may sound absolute and such, they are not and should not be read as such. It is merely my 'theory of education', an ideal way which I would like to see come true. It is based heavily on my own education, which I feel has had its basic success.

it 's not that i disagree or agree with what u said, but i just dislike those who haven't to tell me how...would u suggest how to fix a car, having only read how they work and been driven in one ?

[spoiler]for the record

3

girls

1) profesional wild fire fighter/degree in environmental studies in Cali.

2) nursing student, 3rd year 6 months in eastern Europe teaching English while going to school

3) psychology 2 nd year at William smith and hobert/ minor in dance[/spoiler]

[Thriller]

Lois sounds like she's from money, my kinda girl

[S0lid Snake]

Globalism has always been a Trojan horse, used by the monopoly men to inject an affliction which reaches all nations and affects them at the same time. At this stage our common affliction is debt. There are institutions and organizations built by these same people who dispatch economic hit men to make sure that each developed nation on earth is insolvent and completely ruined.

“They control their hosts, becoming in effect their new brain, and turning them into new creatures. It is as if the host itself is simply a puppet, and the parasite is the hand inside. "--Carl Zimmer

“The current financial stripping of economies and environments across the world exhibits, in fact, all the hallmark characteristics of a carcinogenic invasion.”--Joseph McMurtry

“Is globalization about the eradication of world poverty, or is it a mutant variety of colonialism, remote controlled and digitally operated?" --Arundhati Roy

Modern men and women, self absorbed and ego driven have taken their cues from their government and now have fallen in the trap of debt. Keeping up with the Jones’s takes a lot of time and money. The entire international economic sector now is based off of circulating debt. When the debt reaches astronomical numbers and major banks teeter on the edge governments take bad advice.

“If you don't know who the sucker is, then you're it."—Gambler’s motto

It is a global economy now and the same usual suspects who have pushed globalization for decades are now in the position to steer your government officials in any direction they choose as this vicious cycle has come to the crescendo. Now the Hegelian synthesis is that all continents on earth must merge into political unions or blocs.

“About ten years ago or more, it was suggested to President Bush that in view of the creation of the European Union, the American countries from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego should create an all-American community or union. He listened but instead of creating that union in a common, joint effort of all American countries, as was done in Europe, the US negotiated separate trade agreements first with Canada, then with Mexico, and then the Latin American countries created their own Mercosur (the Southern Latin American market) and the future of an American Union is in doubt.” --Former Assistant General of the UN Robert Muller, Paradise Earth

“The continental approach to a world union remains an important avenue. One could conceive five continental unions: the European Union, an American, an African, an Asian, and an Australian Union. A World Union could be constructed as a super-structure and common political system of the five continents. Humanity would then save astronomic military expenditures. What a relief for the world it would be!” –Former Assistant General of the UN Robert Muller, Paradise Earth

Their reasoning for this is that if these nations merge their economies and their monetary systems it will be easier to micromanage them as well as being a benefit to them as their economies will be far more stable. The model for all these continental unions is the European Union. A political bloc who gives you the privilege of free speech and their elected officials are nothing more than pawns and window dressing.

“Despite and because of the enormous challenges it faces, the European Union is still the inspiration for all countries and peoples seeking harmonious and effective governance in our new century.” –Hazel Henderson, The European Union: Model For The World

These unions are the bastard brainchild of the global aristocracy. Our freedoms will be quickly extinguished if these sociopolitical groupings are created. Consider the drastic changes in our economies; we will all be living in a third world cesspit accompanied by a proactive police state. If you strip away the trinkets and baubles America is already a third world nation. The breads and circuses keep the people’s minds occupied enough that they don’t realize it.

“Any limitation on the exercise of the rights and freedoms recognized by this Charter must be provided for by law and respect the essence of those rights and freedoms. Subject to the principle of proportionality, limitations may be made only if they are necessary and genuinely meet objectives of general interest recognized by the Union or the need to protect the rights and freedoms of others.” –EU Charter on Fundamental Rights, Article 52

Today most nations in the G7/G20 are looking for the silver bullet to this problem. The chum and the jackals on Wall Street are relishing in their short term gain but will blindly follow the creators of the IMF, World Bank and World Economic Forum although they don’t have a shred of respectability beyond their arrogant tone and massive bank accounts. Do not give these parasites the power to control our lives, turn our rights into privileges and steal everything that we and our families have earned from the sweat of our brow. The internationalists have reached the flashpoint where they will do anything necessary to see their goals achieved. In order to succeed we need to be willing to do the same for the right reasons.

Welcome to the New World Order, hoisted upon us by the unelected elite via an economic meltdown.

Well folk I hope your happy, don't say we didn't warn you...

Peace. V

[Juliette]

Brother, the only way out of the system is suicide.
Either adapt or die. That's how simple it is.


You think you can muster/awake enough people from their blissful existence to have an actual effect on the course of the world's politics? Makes me wonder who is the naive one..

Arguments:
A. The system is unchangeable, except when a sufficiently influential group decides to change it.
B. There is no group, save the entire population, influential enough to do anything to the system.
C. Accept existence in the system, and you can live a life of bliss.

Conclusion:
X. The system is unchangeable. Accept it, and live a life of bliss.


Should you fail to behave within logical parameters, you will keep running into brick walls all around you. You will become claustrophobic, paranoid and schizophrenic within a reasonable time frame. The 'logical' next step from there ("zomg, the hole werld is aghanst meh") is suicide ("zomg, ah dun wan dis nemore").
Don't live the illusion that you in the position of an average human can change anything as substantial as world politics, and just keep yourself concerned with the micromanagement of your own sphere of influence. Which, in most cases, is just you. Unless you are Richard Branson or Oprah (or similar Humans), you're out of your league.