how would you fix things...

[Cole]

i though this section was for intelligent discussion?

then one has to wonder why you are attempting to contribute to the section?

Corran, seriously....dont go there.

I have to agree that your theory isn't rational, realistic, effective and useful.
As for intelligent or not, it's not my matter there.

[Fear Of The Duck]

i though this section was for intelligent discussion?

then one has to wonder why you are attempting to contribute to the section?

Corran, seriously....dont go there.

seriously.. your post i was reffering to would be good in spam temple, that part of the forums you surely consider not eloquent and intelligent enough to be worthy of any attention from better-knowing geniuses like you, but in here it is sounds like a false note in a perfect, intellectual symphony of the section designed for ppl like you.

as you can see by posting the post mentioned you brought this down to the level low enough for ppl like us (or, in this particular case, ppl like me) to express our opinions, ideas and critiques. so why shouldn't i contribute?

[semper]

i though this section was for intelligent discussion?

then one has to wonder why you are attempting to contribute to the section?

Corran, seriously....dont go there.

seriously.. your post i was reffering to would be good in spam temple, that part of the forums you surely consider not eloquent and intelligent enough to be worthy of any attention from better-knowing geniuses like you, but in here it is sounds like a false note in a perfect, intellectual symphony of the section designed for ppl like you.

as you can see by posting the post mentioned you brought this down to the level low enough for ppl like us (or, in this particular case, ppl like me) to express our opinions, ideas and critiques. so why shouldn't i contribute?

not at all. As what I said I seriously believe.

I, personally have no faith in humanity, I have seen, been through and done many things in my short amount of days, and I truly believe humanity as beyond salvation.

Too many people just live their lives with no goals of aspirations beyond getting married and seeing how drunk they can get. I know men and women who spend maybe twelve hours a day in a pud, people my own age who have skipped school to go chasing after girls and cars or the likes.

fifteen years old's that have children and immediately seek to branch out into a council estate. Gun loving citizens who kill and drug smuggle because it is their only opportunity to advance in the world.

Meaningless automoton or non existent lives. A lot of these people deserve better, but more do not.

Just because I choose a radical solution that involves an act you do not agree with, does not make it any less intelligent. Like I have posted elsewhere, or should I refer to the joker to save time. Just because it is not 'part of the plan' so to speak, does not make it wrong, or a stupid solution. it is your own short comings that make you think such. An act of market control, and radical change in government could alter things, but we, as a race have begun to move down a dark path, crime, murder its all on the rise. Corruption, the credit crunch, third world debt, lol. Just general culture and human behaviour stinks like hell.

Humans do not deserve a right to life, because too many waste it with meaningless pursuits and ideals. If there was another way to get it done, say moving to a different planet or dimension, within normal means, alas I would choose to have said that. But we do not have the technology, surprisingly some of our best technology is that made to kill. A rather amusing thought.

If I had unlimited political or whatever power, that is how I would combat all the problems. By removing the true source of them, the people, the governments, the wasteful ideals and material values that dominate human society, to me, it is so...stupid. Only a miraculous act of something can change us for the better now.

I remember about a week ago, those aliens supposedly coming to earth. Why the hell would they want to. Its a dump, full of shallow fools.

If a more economical, political route is what you were hoping to see offered up from me. Well I am not really ever in the mood to discuss that, as currently it IS entirely one of my business modules at university. I am sick to death about discussing the credit crunch, the state and the people.

Maybe a more ideal and moral aimed post? How about we take a brief look, the human rights systems and the health and safety - over rated, need to be completely re -worked. Criminals forfeit their rights when they commit a crime against humanity, aka any living person. The schools. teach kids how to speak english again, teach them correct social values and codes of conduct. Council estates - get rid of them, anyone in side them find a good mine or something, or build a nice big tower block and accidentally knock it down. You would remove a mound of crime in one swift go. Change the laws on knifes, anyone found carrying one will go to jail for 10 years minimum. If the current punishment is not enough, kick it up. Jails, get them to work in jail for the state, if they are to violent, lock em up and throw away the key. Death sentence, bring it back.

I can assure you though Corran, where as I do believe my solution to be the only real one, humanity itself could muster any time soon, before we do go too far. I would never be able to acquire the power needed to order it. Yeah, I will most likely go into politics and head for the british government, but alas my main concerns then will be fixing what I anticipate would still be broken briton not world conquest and domination. (Not to mention it is no longer 1900, so that wouldnt be possible in my life time anyway!)

You claim my statements here are not intelligent. Well I would say anyone who does not realise the terrible state of our so acclaimed great race is unintelligent themselves, because it is too obvious to realise. If my solution you do not agree with, fair enough but dont call it a stupid one because you do not agree or understand it.

What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.


-Semper - the Tyrant - the villain.

[TheWay]

Semper if I be so bold let me suggest that the very type of action that you suggest in the first few paragraphs of your last post are exactly what was needed to bring humanity salvation.

You say that humanity is beyond salvation and even suggest that man doesn’t deserve salvation. You then suggest that the solution to this problem is in your words "a radical solution that involves an act you do not agree with" I completely agree and lucky for us God in his infinite wisdom agrees as well. The idea that man cannot save himself and that we must pay the penalty for our depravity is at the core of the Christian doctrines and in such God used a radical process to pay the penalty for our fallen nature. The idea that the Savior or Christ (AKA Jesus) would return and not as a king to free the Jews from Roman oppression but instead he would return as a lowly servant was and is unacceptable to the Jewish people who expected their king to come in glory (their definition of what that glory would be of course). If that weren’t enough not only did the Christ come by humble means but he was hung on a cross which is the highest of dishonors so dishonorable that the Romans would never dream of killing one of their own citizens in such a way.

What I am saying is that a bold and radical solution has already been employed and it accomplished many things.

1. Because Christ lived the perfect life and was indeed the son of God and a part of the triune God Head, he was able to be a substitutionary offering to pay the penalty for our sins taking on the very corrupt nature that we have and dying thus killing the penalty for all.

2. By rising again he defeated death and taking away its sting solidifying his status as God.

3. He lived the perfect life and through a process called imputed righteousness he replaced what God looks on when he sees us. You see Christ did not only die in our place but he lived in our place as well.

In all I understand your frustration and the amazing thing is so does Christ a God who has lived in our shoes and suffered as we suffer. The desire you have for redemption through radical and extraordinary terms has already been provided.

I hope this brings you some type of comfort.

@Avenger, I look forward to your return and as of the Child services I will research the issue and respond. However the issue seems simple when I think about. Anytime you place man in charge of any system there will be some issues of neglect or worse. I happen to have a degree in counseling and am pursuing a master in marriage and family so I understand to some degree of what you are talking about but I don’t think it points to anything more than a system flawed because of imperfect man and some very goofy laws. But I will look into this further and respond

[semper]

Semper if I be so bold let me suggest that the very type of action that you suggest in the first few paragraphs of your last post are exactly what was needed to bring humanity salvation.

You say that humanity is beyond salvation and even suggest that man doesn’t deserve salvation. You then suggest that the solution to this problem is in your words "a radical solution that involves an act you do not agree with" I completely agree and lucky for us God in his infinite wisdom agrees as well. The idea that man cannot save himself and that we must pay the penalty for our depravity is at the core of the Christian doctrines and in such God used a radical process to pay the penalty for our fallen nature. The idea that the Savior or Christ (AKA Jesus) would return and not as a king to free the Jews from Roman oppression but instead he would return as a lowly servant was and is unacceptable to the Jewish people who expected their king to come in glory (their definition of what that glory would be of course). If that weren’t enough not only did the Christ come by humble means but he was hung on a cross which is the highest of dishonors so dishonorable that the Romans would never dream of killing one of their own citizens in such a way.

What I am saying is that a bold and radical solution has already been employed and it accomplished many things.

1. Because Christ lived the perfect life and was indeed the son of God and a part of the triune God Head, he was able to be a substitutionary offering to pay the penalty for our sins taking on the very corrupt nature that we have and dying thus killing the penalty for all.

2. By rising again he defeated death and taking away its sting solidifying his status as God.

3. He lived the perfect life and through a process called imputed righteousness he replaced what God looks on when he sees us. You see Christ did not only die in our place but he lived in our place as well.

In all I understand your frustration and the amazing thing is so does Christ a God who has lived in our shoes and suffered as we suffer. The desire you have for redemption through radical and extraordinary terms has already been provided.

I hope this brings you some type of comfort.

@Avenger, I look forward to your return and as of the Child services I will research the issue and respond. However the issue seems simple when I think about. Anytime you place man in charge of any system there will be some issues of neglect or worse. I happen to have a degree in counseling and am pursuing a master in marriage and family so I understand to some degree of what you are talking about but I don’t think it points to anything more than a system flawed because of imperfect man and some very goofy laws. But I will look into this further and respond

The actions of christ have not and most likely will never be proven. The idea of him doing what he did, has arguably brought about salvation on a spiritual level for many, but also the current global situation, as many of the building blocks were laid in christ's name, and if not that, then what that man, if he truly existed believed and taught.

I cannot accept the religious view point of salvation, as what happens when we leave this world is more and more having less consequence on what happens whilst we are here. Not to mention the amazing flaws in most religions, especially christianity and catholacism. (yeah i spelt it wrong..).

[TheWay]

Well it saddens me that you are unwilling to believe. Although there will never be complete evidence for the death and resurrection of Christ we do have eye witness accounts that are historical and traceable and although that’s not perfect it would easily be accepted as evidence in the court of law and so holds some intrinsic value. I encourage you to look into the historical writings of scripture and of course the writings of Jewish historian Josephus and also Tacitus (although he less information regarding these issues.

[Fear Of The Duck]

ahh.. semper.. believe me.. i understand where you're coming from. you're a student. a child that just grown up a bit and seen a bit of the world and realised in panic that this world is a really nasty place and would like to do something about this (or better, would like someone else to do something about this). i was there 10 years ago myself.

just that solution you propose... you're not better here than any scum of the earth. now i'll tell you why: deny ppl the right to live the lives of their choice. you consider someones aspiration as meaningless so you'd like to just get rid of them. you're so stuck-up and full of yourself.

Change the laws on knifes, anyone found carrying one will go to jail for 10 years minimum.

yes. i know you'd like me locked up. so your idea is "guilty unless proven innocent". yes. the soviets introduced this some time ago.

it's ppl like you who make the world nasty as it is.

but if you're looking for another solution i will present one here at some stage (it needs some time to write it properly).

[semper]

ahh.. semper.. believe me.. i understand where you're coming from. you're a student. a child that just grown up a bit and seen a bit of the world and realised in panic that this world is a really nasty place and would like to do something about this (or better, would like someone else to do something about this). i was there 10 years ago myself.

just that solution you propose... you're not better here than any scum of the earth. now i'll tell you why: deny ppl the right to live the lives of their choice. you consider someones aspiration as meaningless so you'd like to just get rid of them. you're so stuck-up and full of yourself.

Change the laws on knifes, anyone found carrying one will go to jail for 10 years minimum.

yes. i know you'd like me locked up. so your idea is "guilty unless proven innocent". yes. the soviets introduced this some time ago.

it's ppl like you who make the world nasty as it is.

but if you're looking for another solution i will present one here at some stage (it needs some time to write it properly).

hahaha....you think that this wisdom is mine a lone do you? Noooo...nooo..I have the knowledge of another. Someone far wiser and knowledgeable than you will ever be my friend. That knowledge of my grandads. A man who has seen the world...and lived in it for nearly 70 years. He has been at the bottom of society, grafting a living from carrying luggage to the high ends of society, having tea with the queen and going out with people like simon cowell and des oconnor. He has run businesses for forty years, and has lived in places from London to blackpool.

I dont CONSIDER someones aspirations as meaningless. I KNOW they are meaningless, because they do not benefit anyone but themselves and in their own selfishness they ruin or corrupt the lives of others. I have seen it too many times in too many different places and forms.

So stuck up and full of myself? You know nothing about me, where I come from and where I am or how I got there. I think from your tiny corner of the world in ireland Corran, you fail to comprehend as much as you think you do. Just because you are older, makes you non the wiser or informed about the world.

I recognise there is 'good' out there. Oh and I point out I never referred to anyone as scum. Just pointless, and underserving of the gift of life they have been given.

People like me that make the world a bad place? lol....you fool. I do more for people than I readily reveal. A lot more. Tom Twin will back me up on that, I am, in fact a very selfless person.

But I know enough, that being good is not enough. Being nice, you generally finish last. This world is an unfair and mean place, but that is not a fact of absolutes.

I think, you have mis read a lot of my post, and are focusing on one fact that you are so certain is wrong, rather than a point of view. I may act like it, but I am a wise enough man to know that everything here are just points of views, it matters not what I think because I can never do it, and never would, because the people I do care about would hate me for it.

I added a solution, that you can find no logical reason to counter. Other than the fact you believe the mass slaughter of so many is wrong. They deserve the right to choose, and are not meaningless. WHY! I ask you...why?

I have a lot more to learn about the world, of this I am sure, but if you believe what you imply about this world and me, then you have far more to learn, even in your venerable age.

(Guilty until proven innocent? I never mentioned such a thing. Just that anyone carrying knives should be harshly punish. There is no need to carry a knife in the middle of a urban area. There should not be at least.)

I await your defence of the rights humans have and why.

Lets see then, old man, how good you are.

[Fear Of The Duck]

you don't understand and realise certain implications of your pohilosophy. it also doesn't seem to be based on any set of logical, symmetric principles. your attitude towards religions is the best proof.

[Colton]

Hmm.. Semper, would you be included in that 10% that lives to better humanity?

Why does 90% of humanity deserve to be extinguished? There may be many people that don't "deserve life" but it's not fair to everyone else when you slap on a number like "90% of the world"

[TheWay]

It seems this topic has taken a very existential turn and many times that comes with some hard feelings. Semper I suggest you read some Franz Kafka because you will find his sentiment about the peril of man enlightening. He would not hold the same view as you but he would likely hold to the fact that none of us are actually free and we all might as well just lie down and die like dogs because life has no real value or meaning. I of course don’t hold to this view because I have hope in Heaven and hope that God is in control. I am sure you could bring up arguments to attack this hope I have suggest as the question of evil to which i could easily lay siege to such arguments but then what would be the point. In all I think you will find some intellectual value in Kafka and it will help you at least a more well defined world view.

@everyone

Debate is a place for argument and rhetoric but not a place to get overly emotional and insulting. Please if you cannot handle these topics with respect for your opponant then do not submit yourself and us to frustration as we wish to enjoy open dialogue

[semper]

you don't understand and realise certain implications of your pohilosophy. it also doesn't seem to be based on any set of logical, symmetric principles. your attitude towards religions is the best proof.

a wonderful demonstration of your own ignorance Corran. I understand all implications of my philosophy, it is just I can accept it.

My attitude towards religions! Mate! I have studied religions and the philosophy of them for years!

hahaha...your amazing Corran. Its almost like live stand up for free, just to read what you write. My boy, step up, or step down.

Colton. My ideals would get me in my 10%, however my physical fitness would most likely be my downfall. However how would the plan be executed if I were not around to do it?

Now I believe this topic has been...'spoilt' by some mis placed emotions from non regular posters in these parts, causing a massive trail off topic.

**LOCKED**