Abortion

[Demeisen]

murder is wrong

and the countless people killed in the name of God? is murder ok when he/she backs it?

i dont see how people could oppose abortion in a case (for example) where it would save the mothers life. basically medical reasons.

[Cole]

Excessive morality <=> bad & dangerous <=> full absence of morality.
This applies in this topic too.

And Liquid did mention good points.

[Mister Sandman]

and the countless people killed in the name of God? is murder ok when he/she backs it?

How is this relevance? Murder is murder no matter how you paint it.

In addition, the bible does not say "Thou shalt not kill" It says not to murder. You are sill misconceiving ethics and logic.

i dont see how people could oppose abortion in a case (for example) where it would save the mothers life. basically medical reasons.

It wholly depends on the case. However, with modern technology we can save the mothers life even if she doesnt get an abortion. Also, with abortion comes a large range of side-effects; mentally and physically draining.

[urogard]

murder is wrong

and the countless people killed in the name of God? is murder ok when he/she backs it?

i dont see how people could oppose abortion in a case (for example) where it would save the mothers life. basically medical reasons.

no sandman is right, murder is wrong

now anyways, concerning abortion, maybe countries should adopt the US of A style of 'late abortion'

give the kids guns and let them do amok runs when they are 15 year old in their schools.

[Mister Sandman]

murder is wrong

and the countless people killed in the name of God? is murder ok when he/she backs it?

i dont see how people could oppose abortion in a case (for example) where it would save the mothers life. basically medical reasons.

no sandman is right, murder is wrong

now anyways, concerning abortion, maybe countries should adopt the US of A style of 'late abortion'

give the kids guns and let them do amok runs when they are 15 year old in their schools.

Take for example Brunei: They have no abortion, due to their religious beliefs, and we see that the populous is content.

[Demeisen]

Take for example Brunei: They have no abortion, due to their religious beliefs, and we see that the populous is content.

so you are saying we should all convert to islam to be content?


brunei isnt a 'free' country.

its probably the type of place where you get parts of you cut off for committing a crime. if they were a civilised country they would allow abortion in some circumstances.

perhaps cases of rape or times when the mothers life is in danger dont happen in brunei. i doubt that though. people would most likely be forced to accept things they do not wish to. suffering for a religious belief is nothing new at all.

[Mister Sandman]

Take for example Brunei: They have no abortion, due to their religious beliefs, and we see that the populous is content.

so you are saying we should all convert to islam to be content?


brunei isnt a 'free' country.

its probably the type of place where you get parts of you cut off for committing a crime. if they were a civilised country they would allow abortion in some circumstances.

perhaps cases of rape or times when the mothers life is in danger dont happen in brunei. i doubt that though. people would most likely be forced to accept things they do not wish to. suffering for a religious belief is nothing new at all.

I guess you haven't been to Brunei yourself.

I am not suggesting that we convert to Islam. That is absurd.
It doesn't fit in my Christian beliefs.

So what that Brunei isnt "free", freedom is relative. Boundary's can paradoxically provide freedom.

Im not saying the government system is correct and the laws are perfect and the practices are right on the abortion side it is clear that there is no waste of life. Every life has a purpose.

Remember that abortion is still murder, no matter how you dress it up.
When does a civil country allow murder?

I know my friends, who are Christians, will no get an abortion under and circumstance. It is morality. Presenting mercy and love to an unborn child.


It isnt about religion, its about basic human dignities. The knowledge that there is no waste of human life.

[Demeisen]

I am not suggesting that we convert to Islam.

really? i was just about to convert to the contented (and often embroiled in conflict) religion that is islam.

So what that Brunei isnt "free", freedom is relative. Boundary's can paradoxically provide freedom.

i can criticise my government. in burnei it would be more difficult for a citizen to do so. that is a fundamental difference between a 'free' country and a nation which suppresses and controls its media.

it is clear that there is no waste of life.

The knowledge that there is no waste of human life.

i wonder at what you think of the term 'waste of life?'

for example, if a pregnant woman became ill and needed an abortion if she was going to survive.
by your (repetitive) reasoning she should be allowed to die as abortion is murder (apparently). that sir is a waste of life. you argue to preserve life yet would deny it to a woman because of a conflict with some religious rule?

you pick and choose when to apply things and warp truth to fit your personal views. why? why would religion require additional suffering of its followers?

if you look at it afresh, as if with no pre-held religious beliefs, it looks insane.

Remember that abortion is still murder, no matter how you dress it up.
When does a civil country allow murder?

didnt God like kill a whole bunch of the 1st born kids of egypt? and in that story the murder is all dressed up with religious fantasy?
again will you pick and choose what to believe and how to interpret things?

[Mister Sandman]

really? i was just about to convert to the contented (and often embroiled in conflict) religion that is islam.

I detect sarcasm?

i can criticise my government. in burnei it would be more difficult for a citizen to do so. that is a fundamental difference between a 'free' country and a nation which suppresses and controls its media.

Why would you want to criticise your government if your content?

i wonder at what you think of the term 'waste of life?' All Life has a purpose.

for example, if a pregnant woman became ill and needed an abortion if she was going to survive.
by your (repetitive) reasoning she should be allowed to die as abortion is murder (apparently). that sir is a waste of life. you argue to preserve life yet would deny it to a woman because of a conflict with some religious rule?

Is it murder? The mother still has a chance to live. Abortion is 100% murder. The woman has say what 80% of living. Choose the better of chances to preserve life.

Its not a religious rule is a morality issue.

you pick and choose when to apply things and warp truth to fit your personal views. why? why would religion require additional suffering of its followers?

if you look at it afresh, as if with no pre-held religious beliefs, it looks insane.

First of all, what suffering? And, to any man of logic, of heart, and morality abortion will be forbade.

Remember that abortion is still murder, no matter how you dress it up.
When does a civil country allow murder?

didnt God like kill a whole bunch of the 1st born kids of egypt?Yes the first born sons was killed... but it wasnt murder... and in that story the murder is all dressed up with religious fantasy? It was War, if look at the beginning before the plagues you see that lives had been taken already, for a long time, by the Egyptians.

again will you pick and choose what to believe and how to interpret things?

I will interpret things my way, because its my interpretation. Seriously.... you have no right to say that, you do that aswell. However, if you still look at the Bible, it is very clear that your logic is flawed.

[Demeisen]

me = blue occasionally yellow, white and boldred

really? i was just about to convert to the contented (and often embroiled in conflict) religion that is islam.

I detect sarcasm?

you detect what you want to see

i can criticise my government. in burnei it would be more difficult for a citizen to do so. that is a fundamental difference between a 'free' country and a nation which suppresses and controls its media.

Why would you want to criticise your government if your content?

true if content is living in a state where opinions are muted.

i wonder at what you think of the term 'waste of life?' All Life has a purpose.

for example, if a pregnant woman became ill and needed an abortion if she was going to survive.
by your (repetitive) reasoning she should be allowed to die as abortion is murder (apparently). that sir is a waste of life. you argue to preserve life yet would deny it to a woman because of a conflict with some religious rule?

Is it murder? The mother still has a chance to live. Abortion is 100% murder. The woman has say what 80% of living. Choose the better of chances to preserve life.

allow me to clarify. the mother would die unless she had an abortion. the baby is as yet unable to survive on its own. would you say its right to let the mother die rather than have life saving treatment?

Its not a religious rule is a morality issue.

you pick and choose when to apply things and warp truth to fit your personal views. why? why would religion require additional suffering of its followers?

if you look at it afresh, as if with no pre-held religious beliefs, it looks insane.

First of all, what suffering? the pain of telling sinful lies And, to any man of logic, of heart, and morality abortion will be forbade.

Remember that abortion is still murder, no matter how you dress it up.
When does a civil country allow murder?

didnt God like kill a whole bunch of the 1st born kids of egypt?Yes the first born sons was killed... but it wasnt murder it was. thats obvious...[/color] and in that story the murder is all dressed up with religious fantasy? It was War, killing civilian children is Gods tactic in war? if look at the beginning before the plagues you see that lives had been taken already, for a long time, by the Egyptians so murder as revenge is ok. what happened to forgiving etc?. [/color]

again will you pick and choose what to believe and how to interpret things?

I will interpret things my way, because its my interpretation. Seriously.... you have no right to say that, you do that aswell. However, if you still look at the Bible, it is very clear that your logic is flawed.

yes you are allowed to interpret as you want to. if i had my way people would be forced to use common sense and logic but hey im not the man. i have looked at the bible. sadly, much of whats in the bible was proven false in another debate. if you read that thread you will see

[Mister Sandman]

i can criticise my government. in burnei it would be more difficult for a citizen to do so. that is a fundamental difference between a 'free' country and a nation which suppresses and controls its media.

Why would you want to criticise your government if your content?

true if content is living in a state where opinions are muted.[/quote]

That makes no sense. Logically, humanity deosnt complain if everything is "hunky dory".

allow me to clarify. the mother would die unless she had an abortion. the baby is as yet unable to survive on its own. would you say its right to let the mother die rather than have life saving treatment?

And how is this a real case? With modern medical practices chances of survival are much higher. How can you say with 100% of a doubt that the mother would die? Abortion is not a treatment, it is a medical procedure, difference being that abortion doesnt treat anything, it just takes unborn life away.

Remember that abortion is still murder, no matter how you dress it up.
When does a civil country allow murder?

didnt God like kill a whole bunch of the 1st born kids of egypt?

Yes the first born sons was killed... but it wasnt murder
it was. thats obvious
:D Read the story..... Contextualise with the times. Understand the meanings...

..and in that story the murder is all dressed up with religious fantasy? It was War,

killing civilian children is Gods tactic in war?
They weren't civilians. In addion the death of the sons was symbolic...

if look at the beginning before the plagues you see that lives had been taken already, for a long time, by the Egyptians

so murder as revenge is ok. what happened to forgiving etc?.
Murder under all circumstances is not ok. Yet again you misconceive the point.

again will you pick and choose what to believe and how to interpret things?

I will interpret things my way, because its my interpretation. Seriously.... you have no right to say that, you do that aswell. However, if you still look at the Bible, it is very clear that your logic is flawed.

yes you are allowed to interpret as you want to. if i had my way people would be forced to use common sense and logic but hey im not the man. i have looked at the bible. sadly, much of whats in the bible was proven false in another debate. if you read that thread you will see [/quote]

...If you had your way, we would be monkeys with no common sense or logic....

In essence you still haven't proven the bible wrong, in fact you've strengthen my views that the Bible is factual..

This was seen in another debate. Which hasnt got to do with this one. So drop the line and get back to the subject.

[Demeisen]

Logically, humanity deosnt complain if everything is "hunky dory".

or if complaining would result in action against them. would you complain if a lion pushes in front of you in a queue? or if a menacing government watches you would you complain about them?

And how is this a real case? With modern medical practices chances of survival are much higher. How can you say with 100% of a doubt that the mother would die? Abortion is not a treatment, it is a medical procedure, difference being that abortion doesnt treat anything, it just takes unborn life away.

so you cannot answer the question as it will demonstrate clearly the flaws and coldness of your religion. and it is not a real case. it is a fictional (fiction means something isnt real ie the bible. fact is real ie not the bible ) example which i thought was quite easy to understand.

can you not answer within the confines of my example? my example in which the mother would die if she didnt have an abortion. and in which the baby would die also. if an abortion is carried out the mother would survive. its saving one life (which is not the be wasted, according to you) instead of loosing two lifes would you agree that abortion is justifiable in a case such as this?

They weren't civilians. In addion the death of the sons was symbolic...

right so i assume you claim those children were some sort of military formation. to me that is a cheap and inadequate answer. if i kill a child and claim it was symbolic the child remains murdered. you are twisting yourself up in your own poor logic.

murder is wrong in all circumstances. oh wait its ok when God murders.
forgiveness is key to christianity. always forgive. oh wait you can wipe out thousands of kids in revenge if you are God.

Murder under all circumstances is not ok. Yet again you misconceive the point.

using absolute reasoning its easy to say God sinned by murdering many, many people. if murder is never acceptable (as you yourself have insisted) that means God was wrong to do it. God, wrong, consider the implications mate. . .

...If you had your way, we would be monkeys with no common sense or logic....

if i had my way stupidity would warrant execution for persistent offenders.

In essence you still haven't proven the bible wrong, in fact you've strengthen my views that the Bible is factual.

it has been done (see previous debate where the bible is proven to contain false information)
if being shown evidence that contradicts your beliefs reinforces them thats not healthy. a normal person would re-evaluate their ideas when presented with strong proof against them.

you sir are a fanatic and will therefore believe as you do regardless of any evidence. you have shown that implicitly.


christianity (any most major religions) has punished, controlled, demonised and heaped blame upon women. making abortion a sin is just another rule made up by male religious leaders

[Thriller]

You guys, the church says it's wrong to have an abortion.

That's why you should use a condom..... oh wait...

[urogard]

sandman you're a really nice hypocrite

first you say abortion is murder and murder is wrong
then you come again saying murder is right

make up your mind and stick with it

[Mister Sandman]

sandman you're a really nice hypocrite

first you say abortion is murder and murder is wrong
then you come again saying murder is right

make up your mind and stick with it

I never said murder is right. Mark my words: Murder is wrong. Abortion is murder.

Please show me where I said murder is right. NOWHERE.

Feel free to slander me. I know where I stand. I am NOT a hypocrite.

You guys, the church says it's wrong to have an abortion.

That's why you should use a condom..... oh wait...

It is not just the church.. and

Yes. Play it safe! If you MUST have sex. Use a condom, Use the Pill is conception.