Let's not forget...[Europe only]

[Fear Of The Duck]

interesting thingy ya've found there, pops.
im in the line with libertas just more anti-integration.
roughly in the middle of the triangle: dutch partij voor de vrijheid (whatever that is), mouvement pour la france and DUP (waits to be called west brit)

[Cole]

interesting thingy ya've found there, pops.
im in the line with libertas just more anti-integration.
roughly in the middle of the triangle: dutch partij voor de vrijheid (whatever that is), mouvement pour la france and DUP (waits to be called west brit)

Apparently dutch party for liberty according to google (dutch party which I'm farest from lol). Mouvement pour la france is most euroskeptical french movement, in the limit between right&far right (sovereignist party)...

[Fear Of The Duck]

interesting thingy ya've found there, pops.
im in the line with libertas just more anti-integration.
roughly in the middle of the triangle: dutch partij voor de vrijheid (whatever that is), mouvement pour la france and DUP (waits to be called west brit)

Apparently dutch party for liberty according to google (dutch party which I'm farest from lol). Mouvement pour la france is most euroskeptical french movement, in the limit between right&far right (sovereignist party)...

yeah.. i've noticed you're against freedom and liberty.

[Cole]

interesting thingy ya've found there, pops.
im in the line with libertas just more anti-integration.
roughly in the middle of the triangle: dutch partij voor de vrijheid (whatever that is), mouvement pour la france and DUP (waits to be called west brit)

Apparently dutch party for liberty according to google (dutch party which I'm farest from lol). Mouvement pour la france is most euroskeptical french movement, in the limit between right&far right (sovereignist party)...

yeah.. i've noticed you're against freedom and liberty.

Yes and no: for democracy/against dictatorship, but, against disappearance of a State and taxes (not in favour of monster taxes though).

[Fear Of The Duck]

monster tax = everything more than 15%

[Cole]

monster tax = everything more than 15%

Hmmm no, anything close/over 30% (monster=giant) of total revenues.

And by my own tests on this site, I'm *very* close to Partido Popular (Spain), Jose Maria Aznar's right wing party (EU stuff both included and not included), just that I'm slighty moderated for immigration compared to them (75% for me, 100% for them on the round circles thing).

[Fear Of The Duck]

youse must be really heavily taxed over there.

[Cole]

I don't know...I don't work and I'm a student, so I don't pay taxes yet.

[Fear Of The Duck]

aye.. that's why the monster for you starts at 30%. anyways, the best from the govt income and economy is somewhere between 10%-15%. that's why i said 15%

[Q Man]

interesting thingy ya've found there, pops.
im in the line with libertas just more anti-integration.
roughly in the middle of the triangle: dutch partij voor de vrijheid (whatever that is), mouvement pour la france and DUP (waits to be called west brit)

i'm closest to libertas as well.......

[Cole]

Who voted no lol?

[Q Man]

*slowly raises hand from the back of the room*

[Cole]

Argh who's the other who voted no? >_<

[Fear Of The Duck]

oh.. there's a vote! just noticed that.

i voted pro eu with different eu system:

1. every citizen of an eu country can freely travel, move to, work, do business etc. in any other eu country
2. no custom duty/ import/export taxes etc. on goods shipped and traded within the eu
3. no restrictions on money transfers between eu countries (regardles whether it's a bank transfer or you're transfering it in cash in your briefcase)
4. seperation of economy and state for all eu countries:
- no central banks controlled by govts or such
- no 'state' currencies
- no fiscal policy: no govt shall be allowed to tax some ppl more than the others (with some differences in 3 groups: individuals/businesses/property owners), no govt shall be allowed to give grants/benefits etc. to anybody
- no services provided by any of the eu states (no public education/health etc.)
5. no 'common eu policies', no standardisation etc. on the eu level (other than standards developed and somehow imposed by private enterprises like windoze, photoshop etc)
6. competition between legal systems of the eu states
7. competition between tax rates of the eu states (they cannot tax one more than the others but one state can have tax rate 10%, other 50%, or maybe a poll tax)
8. no laws treating unequally citizens/businesses/organisations from different eu states

this is just from the top of my head. the general idea is to decentralise everything as much as possible and make govts as small as possible giving more power and freedom to ppl (like for examle a pub owner shall be able to put a notice no asians allowed without worring about somebody suing him for racism) thus allowing for more competition between ideas and solutions to problems which makes the entire economy and society work way more effciently than it does now (and yes. there'll still be recesions from time to time. that's just how the world works.)

actually, there should be "world" instead of "eu" but we have to start somewhere.

ahh.. btw: with this system bix would be able to not give a damn about the eu without any worries about his health/wealth/life.

[Cole]

Could I know argument(s) from both people who voted no?
Being against EU is something that always astonish me..we are in 21st century for cryin' out loud!

I'm a strong EU supporter, and want to know what are "reasons" against EU..always good to know reasons from your adversaries (or whatever is the correct spelling).