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LegendaryApophis wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:but dont you see that we need to change our Govts and take back control of our country's and implement the changes needed for a better society and better world as a whole regardless if we see the type of world society i have tried to describe or not?

"Take back control of our countries"... fight against NWO conspiracy I presume?
"implement the changes needed for a better society and better world as a whole": you think the average Joe could do it? You have too much faith in general population, man. Or perhaps too much into the utopia that world can easily be change? People who think they can change the world are heavily widely lacking to take *everything* into consideration. Not only average people with small/not large education and sense of reality, but also "smart" people are failing there. And will continue in future.

If it was that easy, it would have been tried already, and would have succeded.
Is all I can say about it.

Mister Sandman wrote:A real dictionary definitions:

[spoiler]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

re⋅li⋅gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.[/spoiler]

Mister Sandman wrote:1. A communist society gives no oppression. The name given easily identifies the type of governing control.

Mister Sandman wrote:[color=#FFFF00]2. Yes, the whole discourse of your belief system forms a religion.

Mister Sandman wrote:Sarcasm doesnt elude me, Im just reassuring the truth.

Mister Sandman wrote:Because you cannot have a perfect system , and yes you implied anarchy, aka self governance. Educated people are corrupt maybe even more corrupt than simple people. A perfect world would be a world without sin. Aka Not possible yet. Therefore we should choose the lesser of the evils... which is communism.

Mister Sandman wrote:and To your previous question, I can separate my ego from myself.

V.O.I.D wrote:as i see it, transitioning between democracy, communism, authoritarian or whatever governmental system in place towards this self governed utopian concept will not happen. mankind does have a tendancy towards certain natures, and many people worldwide would see it as a chance to extort or take action out of a greedy nature.

imo education cannot and will not alter nature, unless you're talking about mental re-programming/mindwashing of the masses. in theory if human nature wasnt so skewed this system might work but i dont see it happenning for humankind as we know it.

Kit-Fox wrote:well said that man

V.O.I.D wrote:as i see it, transitioning between democracy, communism, authoritarian or whatever governmental system in place towards this self governed utopian concept will not happen. mankind does have a tendancy towards certain natures, and many people worldwide would see it as a chance to extort or take action out of a greedy nature.

Agreed

imo education cannot and will not alter nature, unless you're talking about mental re-programming/mindwashing of the masses. in theory if human nature wasnt so skewed this system might work but i dont see it happenning for humankind as we know it.

Depends....

@ Mister Sandman: Religion is not defined by a belief system. if you look at any religion, you will see SOME form of order, some form of doctrine or religious texts (to Christianity it is the Bible, for Islam there is the Quoran (sp?) etc.). if you look at an atheist, they beleive there is no god. they dont subscribe to a doctrine/text that states there is no god, infact views vary greatly within the atheist community, some beleive there is a god, some dont. some are searching, some are avoiding. i think it was Kit-fox or [KMA] Avenger who used the example of the little green men? thinking/beleiving that there is something out there other than the human race or any terrestrial organism does not constitute religion.

Disagree, Atheist believe in what text books of science and other stuff tells them, In reality An Atheist still believe in a God, its just themselves, or money, or 'science'. You cant tell me that it is possible not to have sovereignty to something.

Mister Sandman wrote:A real dictionary definitions:

[spoiler]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

re⋅li⋅gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.[/spoiler]

green highlights show the bits you *conveniently* ignored.
-agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.There are agencies that support atheism as a religion.
>ritual observances<
-beliefs and practicesEverone has beliefs and practices..
self explanatory. atheists do not have a set beleif, yet by your logic they hold to a religion?a Non belief is still a belief.
-ritual observance of faith.
repetition much?atheists have faith.

Mister Sandman wrote:1. A communist society gives no oppression. The name given easily identifies the type of governing control.

do the words "Not One Step Backwards!" mean anything to you? the original theory of Communism wouldve been something great, but as with human nature comes abuse of the system, then those words "Not One Step Backwards!".... How would you like to be forced by your government to fight a war? yes the western world did this too in wars past when military personnel were low.
[color=#FFFF00] I would be honoured to fight for my state and my God. However, if the world was a communist society, there would be no need for war.

However, we never treated Manpower the same as ammunition. in wartime i beleive in the WWII era, parts of the Russian military (or USSR at the time) would be marched before German gun emplacements, the theory was 'we have 1,000,000 men, they have less ammo then that.' the idea was to march hoardes of troops into gunfire directly, hopefully one of them takes out a German Soldier etc, but the major goal was to deplete the enemy MG positions of their ammo stores.

they treated lives as ammo, expendable, and with the notion of "for the fatherland", "for the state" etc. to motivate them. another good example would be their fighter jets, of which only in the past few decades have they bothered encorporating ejector seats into the design.

TLDR: while communist russia wasnt a true communist nation, it was still founded on it, so you saying "a communist nation does not opress", i find to be complete ignorance.

Russia was 'formed' on a part of communism, it didnt truely capture the ideal. Truely a communist country would not fight unless in defence.

Mister Sandman wrote:Because you cannot have a perfect system , and yes you implied anarchy, aka self governance. Educated people are corrupt maybe even more corrupt than simple people. A perfect world would be a world without sin. Aka Not possible yet. Therefore we should choose the lesser of the evils... which is communism.

1: this world will never be perfect, you say you're a christian, you should know this. read Genesis in the Bible again, note after the serpent tempted Eve, then Eve tempted Adam, it was referred to as the 'fall of man'.
Yep, however, communism is not entirely perfect, its just a great deal better than capitalism.
2: anarchy does not equal self governing. anarchy happens when order in this self governing system (or any system for that matter) degrades and there is no governing, there's just a 'look out for number one' mentality for the masses. obviously this may result in mob rule, factions, or just people fighting to get what they want when they want, and not having consideration for anyone else.

Basically the same what i implied, people can't self govern themselves without falling to anarchy

Thriller wrote:I like being able to buy my groceries from the store. I like the fact my kids can get a good education. I like the fact i can find almost any book of interest at my local library. I like that i don't have to worry about getting shot when i walk down the street.

Government is not the enemy Avenger. **Filtered** up people are....
Yah it's bad right now, the **Filtered** has hit the Fan... You want the good times you have to take the bad. But, I'm not ready to throw years of social evolution down the train because some **Filtered** have decided to take a **Filtered** on their own lawn.

What your talking about avenger is naive and would be result in a regress to a nearly tribal status. I would prefer if future generations didn't have to worry about diying from a common cold or starving to death when a drought hit.

Stop talkign everything ad infutum.

The edit wasn' t bad though..

Mister Sandman wrote:

V.O.I.D wrote:as i see it, transitioning between democracy, communism, authoritarian or whatever governmental system in place towards this self governed utopian concept will not happen. mankind does have a tendancy towards certain natures, and many people worldwide would see it as a chance to extort or take action out of a greedy nature.

Agreed

imo education cannot and will not alter nature, unless you're talking about mental re-programming/mindwashing of the masses. in theory if human nature wasnt so skewed this system might work but i dont see it happenning for humankind as we know it.

Depends....

@ Mister Sandman: Religion is not defined by a belief system. if you look at any religion, you will see SOME form of order, some form of doctrine or religious texts (to Christianity it is the Bible, for Islam there is the Quoran (sp?) etc.). if you look at an atheist, they beleive there is no god. they dont subscribe to a doctrine/text that states there is no god, infact views vary greatly within the atheist community, some beleive there is a god, some dont. some are searching, some are avoiding. i think it was Kit-fox or [KMA] Avenger who used the example of the little green men? thinking/beleiving that there is something out there other than the human race or any terrestrial organism does not constitute religion.

Disagree, Atheist believe in what text books of science and other stuff tells them, In reality An Atheist still believe in a God, its just themselves, or money, or 'science'. You cant tell me that it is possible not to have sovereignty to something.
i just did. oh dear.

Mister Sandman wrote:A real dictionary definitions:

[spoiler]http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

re⋅li⋅gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.[/spoiler]

green highlights show the bits you *conveniently* ignored.
-agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.There are agencies that support atheism as a religion. they may consier non beleif as a religion. many others dont.
>ritual observances<
-beliefs and practicesEverone has beliefs and practices.. look at it in context. *thinks to self* left foot first..... *facepalm* you missed the point entirely.
self explanatory. atheists do not have a set beleif, yet by your logic they hold to a religion?a Non belief is still a belief. green is purple. oh wait a minute, where you saying something?
-ritual observance of faith.
repetition much?atheists have faith. again, look in context... *sigh*

Mister Sandman wrote:1. A communist society gives no oppression. The name given easily identifies the type of governing control.

do the words "Not One Step Backwards!" mean anything to you? the original theory of Communism wouldve been something great, but as with human nature comes abuse of the system, then those words "Not One Step Backwards!".... How would you like to be forced by your government to fight a war? yes the western world did this too in wars past when military personnel were low.
[color=#FFFF00] I would be honoured to fight for my state and my God. However, if the world was a communist society, there would be no need for war.[/color] so you'd like to be lined up by the Commissars and marched towards a machine gun nest, and if you even take one step backwards you will be shot: BY YOUR OWN LEADERS? read the next paragraph and you *should* see the point..... oh wait, what makes me think you're capable of it? you didnt the first time, you most likely wont the 2nd.... 3rd.... 4th... 5th.... *carries on*. now of course i can understand patriotism, and the desire to fight for God, but read it again, LOOK AT IT IN CONTEXT.

However, we never treated Manpower the same as ammunition. in wartime i beleive in the WWII era, parts of the Russian military (or USSR at the time) would be marched before German gun emplacements, the theory was 'we have 1,000,000 men, they have less ammo then that.' the idea was to march hoardes of troops into gunfire directly, hopefully one of them takes out a German Soldier etc, but the major goal was to deplete the enemy MG positions of their ammo stores.

they treated lives as ammo, expendable, and with the notion of "for the fatherland", "for the state" etc. to motivate them. another good example would be their fighter jets, of which only in the past few decades have they bothered encorporating ejector seats into the design.

TLDR: while communist russia wasnt a true communist nation, it was still founded on it, so you saying "a communist nation does not opress", i find to be complete ignorance.

Russia was 'formed' on a part of communism, it didnt truely capture the ideal. Truely a communist country would not fight unless in defence. it didnt capture the ideal, i just said that in similar wording. repetition again? however, it is still seen as a communist nation, so my examples are still relevent.

Mister Sandman wrote:Because you cannot have a perfect system , and yes you implied anarchy, aka self governance. Educated people are corrupt maybe even more corrupt than simple people. A perfect world would be a world without sin. Aka Not possible yet. Therefore we should choose the lesser of the evils... which is communism.

1: this world will never be perfect, you say you're a christian, you should know this. read Genesis in the Bible again, note after the serpent tempted Eve, then Eve tempted Adam, it was referred to as the 'fall of man'.
Yep, however, communism is not entirely perfect, its just a great deal better than capitalism. redundant statement.... lol
2: anarchy does not equal self governing. anarchy happens when order in this self governing system (or any system for that matter) degrades and there is no governing, there's just a 'look out for number one' mentality for the masses. obviously this may result in mob rule, factions, or just people fighting to get what they want when they want, and not having consideration for anyone else.

Basically the same what i implied, people can't self govern themselves without falling to anarchy
you said self governance aka anarchy. you didnt define it as you do now. anarchy would not happen if there isnt a provoking factor which may or may not be a self governing group. *applauds sarcastically*