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Don't go backtracking now, eh? Leave that to your intellectual opponent.

I don't get it.
I didn't do that...

I think I thought loudly more likely...
*makes sure to avoid doing that in future*

I also dislike the smell of marijuana and believe that public air should be neutral in odour and composition. This, however, has nothing to do with what ought and ought not be allowed in a private setting.

If there were international treaties that agreed to legislation to kill all Frenchmen, would the rest of the world say "ah well, too bad for Frenchmen"? Maybe they might.

The point is, it makes for a very poor argument to say that it is thus and thus it ought to remain thus in law. It doesn't change the fact that individuals are being convicted of what the state calls a crime, when it has not the elements of a crime. It harms nobody, is not an act of hatred - it actually brings people into a state of mind where they are less likely to be violent. Yet, in this age of war and death, peace might be considered a crime.

Furthermore, you state that you "know" the effects of marijuana. Please, share your experiences.

Agapooka

Agapooka wrote:I also dislike the smell of marijuana and believe that public air should be neutral in odour and composition. This, however, has nothing to do with what ought and ought not be allowed in a private setting.
Then we would allow people to take anything they want in private? No, many people need to be "administrated", whatever is the term. Don't expect people being enough advanced to act by themselves without a "voice" telling them what to do/not do. That would work in an utopian world.

If there were international treaties that agreed to legislation to kill all Frenchmen, would the rest of the world say "ah well, too bad for Frenchmen"? Maybe they might.

Leave that poor line alone!

The point is, it makes for a very poor argument to say that it is thus and thus it ought to remain thus in law. It doesn't change the fact that individuals are being convicted of what the state calls a crime, when it has not the elements of a crime. It harms nobody, is not an act of hatred - it actually brings people into a state of mind where they are less likely to be violent. Yet, in this age of war and death, peace might be considered a crime.

If it was to be permitted, there would be even more people consuming it (see tobacco's consuming...). It's already a problem currently, let's not make worse than it is currently.
Tobacco is permitted. Does it mean that there isn't black market of cigarettes? No. So the *only* positive point it could (but wouldn't) cause, is observed to not happen for tobacco which is permitted.

Furthermore, you state that you "know" the effects of marijuana. Please, share your experiences.

Agapooka

Do not forget people. When you offer them the hand, they ask for the arm.

Finally, I am quite disappointed (yes), to see that much people in this topic, in favour of its legalization. I USED to think this way, and realized I was in the wrong. Thus my current position.

Jim, let me ask you this hypothetical question, what if independent studies show that smoking natural marijuana (not skunk) helps to ease pain and furthermore, that hemp seed oil is as beneficial as claims say it is, would you deny these natural remedies to the world because of your prejudices?

here's a situation that's not hypothetical, 7 years ago my brother was in a SERIOUS bike accident while on holiday in Cyprus. he was hit by a Taxi at 60 mph which threw him into the air and he landed on his right leg snapping the leg at the knee. the knew was reconstructed but he lives with constant pain due to arthritis in the knee joint and also suffers from severe migraines for which he receives injections in the back of his neck every 6 months, this is not only painful but only gives minor relief from the pain.
he smokes marijuana for pain relief and for a few hours his head is clear enough and pain in his knee goes away allowing him to think walk without pain and lead a normal life, he has applied for the use of medical marijuana on 3 occasions and has been refused...

now i ask you...is that right?

Jim, its a FACT that marijuana has many medical benefits, and these benefits are natural, i don't smoke the stuff myself but what right does anybody have to deny someone else something that can help with pain relief or pleasure so long as nobody else is harmed?!

if marijuana was to be legalised it would cut out the criminal element and would generate VAST sums of revenue and our Govts know it, that alone should tell you that there is more to marijuana than Govts are telling.

my personal stance with Marijuana is, Govt should study marijuana and those studies should be made public and then let the public decide what should be done.

Apophis The Great wrote:Then we would allow people to take anything they want in private? No, many people need to be "administrated", whatever is the term. Don't expect people being enough advanced to act by themselves without a "voice" telling them what to do/not do. That would work in an utopian world.

This is a pathetic argument for two reasons:

1. Marijuana is not harmful.
2. I am not advocating people taking JUST ANYTHING in private. I am advocating people taking marijuana in private. I am opposed to it being SMOKED in public, but ONLY because of the smell.

I am, however, against heroin, because of its devastating health effects and its chemically addictive properties. I am against tobacco for the same reasons.

Agapooka

Agapooka wrote:

Apophis The Great wrote:Then we would allow people to take anything they want in private? No, many people need to be "administrated", whatever is the term. Don't expect people being enough advanced to act by themselves without a "voice" telling them what to do/not do. That would work in an utopian world.

This is a pathetic argument for two reasons:

1. Marijuana is not harmful.
2. I am not advocating people taking JUST ANYTHING in private. I am advocating people taking marijuana in private. I am opposed to it being SMOKED in public, but ONLY because of the smell.

I am, however, against heroin, because of its devastating health effects and its chemically addictive properties. I am against tobacco for the same reasons.

Agapooka

Also, the first point can be discussed...That's why I have a different opinion on medicinal one than any other kind. I am more likely to be "neutral" towards medical one.
Well, that's exactly same as if you were to take pain killers regularly without needing them. It might not be harmful in some circumstances, but in others, it's different, or at the very least, quite useless.

Apophis The Great wrote:Do not forget people. When you offer them the hand, they ask for the arm.

About the second point and why I said what I said previously. Again, do not expect too much from "masses"...

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Jim, let me ask you this hypothetical question, what if independent studies show that smoking natural marijuana (not skunk) helps to ease pain and furthermore, that hemp seed oil is as beneficial as claims say it is, would you deny these natural remedies to the world because of your prejudices?
Medicinal marijuana...

here's a situation that's not hypothetical, 7 years ago my brother was in a SERIOUS bike accident while on holiday in Cyprus. he was hit by a Taxi at 60 mph which threw him into the air and he landed on his right leg snapping the leg at the knee. the knew was reconstructed but he lives with constant pain due to arthritis in the knee joint and also suffers from severe migraines for which he receives injections in the back of his neck every 6 months, this is not only painful but only gives minor relief from the pain.
he smokes marijuana for pain relief and for a few hours his head is clear enough and pain in his knee goes away allowing him to think walk without pain and lead a normal life, he has applied for the use of medical marijuana on 3 occasions and has been refused...
Medicinal marijuana...

now i ask you...is that right?

Jim, its a FACT that marijuana has many medical benefits, and these benefits are natural, i don't smoke the stuff myself but what right does anybody have to deny someone else something that can help with pain relief or pleasure so long as nobody else is harmed?!
Medicinal marijuana...

if marijuana was to be legalised it would cut out the criminal element and would generate VAST sums of revenue and our Govts know it, that alone should tell you that there is more to marijuana than Govts are telling.

my personal stance with Marijuana is, Govt should study marijuana and those studies should be made public and then let the public decide what should be done.

I said that I am sort of neutral in a medically sugested (and followed by a doctor to some extent) marijuana. ANY other use I am totally against.

You seem to forget that marijuana isn't used mostly for this, all those chavs & lazy bums don't smoke it because they have pain problems...but because they are lazy, drugged, doing nothing etc...in other words, junkies.

I have to ask, by medical do you mean artifical?

If so you might be interested to find that the artifically created THC compounds have more known side-effects than those created by nature.

Just something for you to consider

Vitamin C has medicinal uses to cure scurvy. We shouldn't use it for anything else, so oranges should be illegal.

People didn't think cigarettes were harmful either

Yeah, and they were being promoted as healthy. Here, we have the opposite situation, where a product is presented as dangerous by the government and outlawed, whereas, yet again, the official position on the matter may be WRONG.

Apophis The Great wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:if marijuana was to be legalised it would cut out the criminal element and would generate VAST sums of revenue and our Govts know it, that alone should tell you that there is more to marijuana than Govts are telling.

my personal stance with Marijuana is, Govt should study marijuana and those studies should be made public and then let the public decide what should be done.

I said that I am sort of neutral in a medically sugested (and followed by a doctor to some extent) marijuana. ANY other use I am totally against.

You seem to forget that marijuana isn't used mostly for this, all those chavs & lazy bums don't smoke it because they have pain problems...but because they are lazy, drugged, doing nothing etc...in other words, junkies.

that's just not the case mate...

come on, lets speak the truth here i know people from ALL walks of life, i have multi millionaire members in my my family who smoke it for relaxation and enjoyment purposes. i have friends who have lots of money but are not millionaires who smoke the stuff, i see bums on the streets smoking this stuff, so its wrong for you to be so broad in your condemnation of marijuana...unless you seriously think the members of my family and close friends of mine who smoke the stuff made their money being lazy and doing nothing?

at the end of the day mate, nobody has the right to tell someone else what they can and cannot do so long as nobody else is being harmed or affected.

Agapooka wrote:Vitamin C has medicinal uses to cure scurvy. We shouldn't use it for anything else, so oranges should be illegal.

Orange is a fruit...again, let's not compare things that cannot be compared.
Comparing oranges with marijuana? Come on

[KMA]Avenger wrote:

Apophis The Great wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:if marijuana was to be legalised it would cut out the criminal element and would generate VAST sums of revenue and our Govts know it, that alone should tell you that there is more to marijuana than Govts are telling.

my personal stance with Marijuana is, Govt should study marijuana and those studies should be made public and then let the public decide what should be done.

I said that I am sort of neutral in a medically sugested (and followed by a doctor to some extent) marijuana. ANY other use I am totally against.

You seem to forget that marijuana isn't used mostly for this, all those chavs & lazy bums don't smoke it because they have pain problems...but because they are lazy, drugged, doing nothing etc...in other words, junkies.

that's just not the case mate...

come on, lets speak the truth here i know people from ALL walks of life, i have multi millionaire members in my my family who smoke it for relaxation and enjoyment purposes. i have friends who have lots of money but are not millionaires who smoke the stuff, i see bums on the streets smoking this stuff, so its wrong for you to be so broad in your condemnation of marijuana...unless you seriously think the members of my family and close friends of mine who smoke the stuff made their money being lazy and doing nothing?

You live in UK, I live in France..
What can be true for UK isn't necessarly the same here!

people are people the world over, the only difference is culture and customs

Poppy, why can't some things be compared? Can you give me a reason? Just because you believe that marijuana is an addictive drug doesn't mean that it is. It seems that the only thing you'll accept as a proper comparison is a real addictive drug, but that would be a flawed comparison if I'm right, wouldn't it?

Agapooka

Agapooka wrote:Poppy, why can't some things be compared? Can you give me a reason? Just because you believe that marijuana is an addictive drug doesn't mean that it is. It seems that the only thing you'll accept as a proper comparison is a real addictive drug, but that would be a flawed comparison if I'm right, wouldn't it?

Agapooka

If it was *only* me!

Not my fault if comparing it isn't easy lol.