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many christians view the cross as a symbol of the holy trinity/jesus/forgiveness

Earendil wrote:*pops in* (haha a funny)

Do you even realize pops that many homosexuals use the rainbow on their own accord and don't associate it with a negative view? It's only the homophobes in the world that see it and think "rainbow=gay=wrong"

I quoted the "why" and the "what" already of this topic to avoid repeating myself about the "why" and the "what".

Juliette wrote:

Brdavs wrote:Ironically, same with the cross.

When did the cross ever have a positive connotation? It never changed from being a symbol of torture and murder and/or the appreciation of those, as far as I know.

What are you talking about?
Edit:nevermind lol

Juliette wrote:

Brdavs wrote:Ironically, same with the cross.

When did the cross ever have a positive connotation? It never changed from being a symbol of torture and murder and/or the appreciation of those, as far as I know.

I second that

i disagree with baxter

Rottenking wrote:

Juliette wrote:

Brdavs wrote:Ironically, same with the cross.

When did the cross ever have a positive connotation? It never changed from being a symbol of torture and murder and/or the appreciation of those, as far as I know.

I second that

i disagree with baxter

I 3rd it, motion carried

The cross has nothing to do with holy trinity, for a start a cross has 4 points and breaking the trinity into 4 words when it only represents 3 things is just silly. The cross was simply a very horrible method of public execution used to instill fear in people. A deterant against breaking the law or challenging the authority of those in power at the time, and it was used for hundreds of years before Jesus was supposedly born. Wearing a cross is no different to wearing a small Electric Chair Pendant, or a Noose


Back to gay rights, I find it very hypocritical and amusing that Christianity now accepts gays when for thousands of years they have called it unnatural and against gods will, probably the biggest u-turn since the old/new testament, its like say ' ah yes, well god or our interpretation of his will was wrong there, he or we changed our minds' and 'all the persecution of the past, well mistakes happen'

Can I just say I was Raised Catholic, and whenever I passed by a Church or Cemetary, I used to be taught to Do the Symbol of the Cross, being that of the Father, the Son, The holy Ghost, Amen... Thats wat I always was taught it was a Symbol of Jesus for us, so Maybe Americans IDK but it deffinatly is a symbol of Jesus here

Agreed, Symbols are powerful, yet always mistruned, but I do hate how you wrote Derogativeness, even though that isn't a word xD as the title for this... Because that is Biggoting, Jim if you don't want people to think your being Dumb, change the damn title to why does Rainbow=Gay lol

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_s ... _the_cross

Google answers all...

lolz


The cross, can be seen both positive, and negative.

Pirates love cross's for X marks the spot!

and with the cross, are you talking about the Red Cross (as in the relief aid organization)?

The red cross, is an religious relief organisation, (A Christian one)

the Cross resembles the Christian Fath.

In countries such as Israel they have the red star of david (jewish) and the red Moon and Star (Islam) , All the tree crosses are seen on the gaza strip. (Good place, you should see it)

The cross has nothing to do with holy trinity, for a start a cross has 4 points and breaking the trinity into 4 words when it only represents 3 things is just silly. The cross was simply a very horrible method of public execution used to instill fear in people. A deterant against breaking the law or challenging the authority of those in power at the time, and it was used for hundreds of years before Jesus was supposedly born. Wearing a cross is no different to wearing a small Electric Chair Pendant, or a Noose

The Cross:

Vertical, horizontal and a intersection .


3 ....

4 Points, yes but it shouldnt be red that way.


But, im tired so here is a copypasta:

Modern spiritual interpretation: The symbol of the cross is seen in two parts bringing in a third:
1. The vertical portion is the symbol of spirit - descending to earth from above. It is the God force of light & love-wisdom.
2. The horizontal section is matter (or man in physical form).
3. At the intersection of the two is man, in the physical, meeting spirit.

The place on the cross where the two intersect is slightly above center at the point of the heart or love.

4. The result of the two intersecting is wholeness; Vertical = Father. Horizontal = Son. The two together is wholeness or Holy Spirit or God made manifest in the physical.



Also, why Christians use a Cross, Jesus was hung from one, and rose again.

It is 1. To remind the sacrifice, and that sins are forgiven
2. Symbolise the brutality that we as Christians face in the world.

Back to gay rights, I find it very hypocritical and amusing that Christianity now accepts gays when for thousands of years they have called it unnatural and against gods will, probably the biggest u-turn since the old/new testament, its like say ' ah yes, well god or our interpretation of his will was wrong there, he or we changed our minds' and 'all the persecution of the past, well mistakes happen'

Cite evidence.
Christians do not accept homosexual acts. we will accept the homosexual. Difference, Love the sinner, hate the sin....

doesn't the bible preach against the use of symbols and craven images????

Cite evidence and reference.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I The Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My Commandments" (Exodus 20:4-6 KJV)

"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even My witnesses. Is there a God beside Me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any. They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed. Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing? Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together." (Isaiah 44:8-11 KJV)

"For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world [see When Will You Be Judged?] in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:29-31 KJV)

Juliette wrote:

Brdavs wrote:Ironically, same with the cross.

When did the cross ever have a positive connotation? It never changed from being a symbol of torture and murder and/or the appreciation of those, as far as I know.

I never said that its meaning changed from positive to worse, jsut that it changed.

At the time of the crucifiction it was a diferent type of symbol than it is nowadays.

You`d be hard pressed to find people that first instinctly make the connection to the form of state capital punishment when faced with the cross like shape. For better or for worse it`s become a symbol of an organization/movement.

That was my point. Symbols change over time. In a quite ironic fashion at times. The christian faith made the symbol of capital punishment in a state that rejected them as its symbol.
2k years later the homosexual movement christians despise took the rainbow, the semi official symbol of jesus if I`m not mistaken, and made that their symbol.
I dunno, for some reason, I just find that sequence of events funny heh.

ƒemme ƒatale wrote:"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I The Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My Commandments" (Exodus 20:4-6 KJV)

"Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? Ye are even My witnesses. Is there a God beside Me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any. They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed. Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing? Behold, all his fellows shall be ashamed: and the workmen, they are of men: let them all be gathered together, let them stand up; yet they shall fear, and they shall be ashamed together." (Isaiah 44:8-11 KJV)

"For as much then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world [see When Will You Be Judged?] in righteousness by that man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:29-31 KJV)

That is against claiming symbols are God. Not against making symbols of things.

A symbol of a Fish is not God. It references the Apostles though, Fishermen of men. The symbol of a Shepherd carrying a Sheep is not Jesus. It refers to Jesus, but no one in their right mind will claim the symbol is something divine. Then again, 'in their right mind' is a rather rare state among the people of all times.

Brdavs wrote:

Juliette wrote:

Brdavs wrote:Ironically, same with the cross.

When did the cross ever have a positive connotation? It never changed from being a symbol of torture and murder and/or the appreciation of those, as far as I know.

I never said that its meaning changed from positive to worse, jsut that it changed.

At the time of the crucifiction it was a diferent type of symbol than it is nowadays.

You`d be hard pressed to find people that first instinctly make the connection to the form of state capital punishment when faced with the cross like shape. For better or for worse it`s become a symbol of an organization/movement.

That was my point. Symbols change over time. In a quite ironic fashion at times. The christian faith made the symbol of capital punishment in a state that rejected them as its symbol.
2k years later the homosexual movement christians despise took the rainbow, the semi official symbol of jesus if I`m not mistaken, and made that their symbol.
I dunno, for some reason, I just find that sequence of events funny heh.

*grin* Fair enough, I got that. My mom used to tell a tale about a squirrel, that started: "It's brown, furry and fluffy and it sits on a tree branch eating nuts." Once, she told this in Sunday School, and the kids reacted "It's JESUS". Dead serious. Automatic response. Regardless, some of those kids used the squirrel as a synonym for Jesus years later. Shows how the most ordinary thing can be used to reference God, Jesus or whoever takes our fancy.

you're such a pansy pops....

What derogative use of the rainbow were you thinking of then?

You do know what derogative means right?

Kinda pathetic how narrow minded you are that you can't even see your own BS

Thriller wrote:you're such a pansy pops....

What derogative use of the rainbow were you thinking of then?

You do know what derogative means right?

Kinda pathetic how narrow minded you are that you can't even see your own BS

As of now I will stop replying/caring about/bothering about posts that fall under the category "I didn't read the whole thread (at least important parts) before posting" like the above does.
That will save me some time.
My race isn't parrot, and I don't intend to become one.

Legendary Jimster wrote:

Thriller wrote:you're such a pansy pops....

What derogative use of the rainbow were you thinking of then?

You do know what derogative means right?

Kinda pathetic how narrow minded you are that you can't even see your own BS

As of now I will stop replying/caring about/bothering about posts that fall under the category "I didn't read the whole thread (at least important parts) before posting" like the above does.
That will save me some time.
My race isn't parrot, and I don't intend to become one.

That's good because "parrot" isn't a race.

Feel free to run and hide from criticism like a good Frenchmen.

Thriller wrote:Feel free to run and hide from criticism like a good Frenchmen.

Oh such a smart comment.

Now, seriously talking, judging from what you wrote, you don't understand the reason of this topic, and attempt to derail it to something else that fits you more and gives you the "upper hand".
Now, if you really bothered to read it, you would have understood that this "derogative" view about rainbows didn't come from me but I witnessed it from outside as I explained in few posts. Some people use this as an insult, or, feel the use of it might be related to 'derogativity' or anything more or less not fitting properly and thus preferable not to be used.
As I said, I don't answer to "I didn't read important parts" like posts, and assume everyone posting did, just as I did with this post.

Anyway, if I made this thread, it's because I'm not in others' minds, so I cannot know what they think about rainbows, if it's derogative to use it or not etc...(as I said this obsession around rainbows isn't really existing here, so the side effects are also not really obvious, that's why I made this thread, to try to understand what's with rainbows and all that stuff)