StarGateWars Forums

a 5-1 ratio seems massively out of context, to the point people (much like how AC use to be) will never use it.

2-1\3-1 seems like a fair starting point.

As long as previous mentioned the def is 0 first. I don't think you should just be able to "beat" the def, I think it should actually be 0. This should stop the perception that the accounts with big strikes can just bully small people.

Same ratio.. different button to hitting anti-coverts IE you can't just take out both with one attack.

Defense must be ZERO'd <- Without a doubt!

Suggest making it proportional.

A low attack requires more lifers per enemy unit killed . . . up to ridiculously more.

I'd get rid of the 30% limitation. It makes the lifers redundant.

Plus it adds more realism to the game. The Red Cell team of the us navy was able to take over battleships using equipment that 3rd world nations could have. But I suppose that example would apply more to AC than lifers. In reality a smaller opponent can almost always score a kill, but at a substantial cost. Still, if someone really wants it they could do it. No one would be completely beyond reprieve. If you piss off enough little guys they can stick it too you. Much more fun that way. You would have to be a little more careful about how you play and think about what you are doing. This is a strategy game after all.

Forum wrote:With the change to bank, basicly making miners optional, and the ongoing issue of accounts able to 'hide' from retaliation by training attack units, and removing covert and def, (not especially fair ...), the following change is being made. How it works can be discussed.

When you lifer suicide an enemy account, AntiCovert (AC) units will die; so too will attack units.
What will the cost be to get a super attacker? regular attacker? attack merc?
What order do they die in, or do they die equally by the amount you have (ie by percent).?
Maybe supers are not killed until the defense is zero ?

Will you still need 30% of a target defence in attack to use lifer suicide, or should it be increaesd? (to 50% 100% 150% ? )

What else should be considered?

What this will effectively do, is stop the 'untouchable' accounts, make lifers a bit more useful, make having a defense more useful, and make ppl think twice about their actions if they cannot hide forever

thoughts?

since players are hiding their units in strike as far i understood then lifering strike units is offered

lifering until now is used to kill AC units online (to prevent being AC-ed) and Offline to lower enemy units in AC.

Lifer vs AC-unit cost 1/2
Lifer vs Strike units cost 1/2
should not be different then killing the same units ac acer, it should kill the strike units only when there arent anymore AC-units, this way it wont take any additional box at strike page.
Lifer vs Super cost ,
cant be different since it takes 1 units to train as super plus some additional naq to train it, im not much confident why to kill supers because it doesnt fit in the opening post. if a player decide to have 200m supers then it isnt hiding his units, also if lifer vs supers is used to medium/small players/accounts it ll hurt them more due to inability to replace them as fast as a skilled strong account/player.
however if Lifer would kill Supers then cost shall be the same atm 1/2 , we should take in consideration that once your lifers have been used it takes 10 units to train 1 lifer. and since lifers can kill AC-units, Strikers and Supers then soon we wont have much lifers.
Following this im confident that it wont take long that ppl will ask that the ratio kill to be equal a lifer for a unit.

How come you have 1 unit that has the ability to kill 2 different type of units. Doesn't seem right. If anything maybe there should be 3 layers of miners. Miners only build income at normal rate. Super Miners build income at a faster rate and can destroy AC only. Then Lifers build income at fastest rate and can destroy AC or Strike units. ( of course def needs to be 0ed. and the rate should be 4-1 for super miners and 3-1 for lifers)

Essentially this would give people a way to increase income. Once you upgrade the units you can not downgrade them. Similar to when you upgrade Strike or Def supers but with miners. One part of upgrading is it will benefit your income...the other part is that you can hit AC units at the super level and AC and strike units at the lifer lvl.

Thats what I would do anyhow.

I like this idea, stops people hiding and being snipers. although instead of taining supers they may mass with ordinary units. as they can then save some of them.

<3 for this update.

Altho there should be a way of protecting yourself from it. either by having a defense or something else, so that players with large lifer amounts cannot just destroy players with high strike and high def.

The way to defend yourself, as I've posted many times now, is to make sure the def is 0'd. How do you defend? You make a defence. This way you cannot just lifer to save yourself from getting massed, that makes the game too easy.

I think its a good idea. If this gets updated people can no longer have a 0 defense and get away with it. They must have a defense to protect their attackers.

I see it like this, The defenders protect your realm, your naq and uu. But now they also protect your attacking force. Since in your own realm they arent do much besides drinking beer and having fun. (Theres no need for them to be in uniform or armed.)

The most important thing is that the defense should be 0ed, otherwise the lifers run into them. (or when the defense is there the strike must be bigger, however lessing the lifer effectiness with 80% or something? Ofcourse depends how high it is)
So here are some ideas: Because the attackers arent armed and ready in your own realm, its random what you destroy. The lifers cant really tell who are who, so they just kill anyone they see. Killing normal soldiers abit more then the supers. (they remain supers lol)

Or that the attackers are always armed and ready, no matter where they are. That way when the lifers reach them they will go for the weaker first -> the normal soldiers and taking a small portion or supers. (there are hero's on each side!) Once the soldiers are dead all attention will be focused on the supers. (perhaps at a ratio of 60-80% soldiers, 5-10% supers and 10-40% miss? No soldiers means: 40% miss, 60% supers or something?)

I was also thinking that once the defense gets 0ed, you can use your strike force to take down the enemy's attack. (costing perhaps more turns per atack, like 20 or so?)

Mercs shouldnt be included since those are just meatbags. The ratio for lifers/kills should be 1-1 but with the % miss/loss etc.

So there are my thoughts, at the end i dont even know what i am talking about so i hope it makes sense.

Ps: The way to defend against this is to build a proper defense. Easy lol

I'm intrigued yet worried. Has the potential to do more harm than good. Us established folks may be annoyed by snipers but "sniping" is a valuable tool in the growth arsenal of up and comers.

I mean we know what happened with ascended when most everything was killable, don't we? It's a slippery slope to go down.

Interesting idea, but why do this when their are far better suggestions for updates ?

Attack Regulars are used BECAUSE of alliance functions, basically alliance functions ( PPT/repair ) killed off massing so people use Covert/AC instead and untrain them when they log off. They are trained into attack regulars to avoid creating lifers. Remove alliance functions and reduce sab back to 2% and this 'killing attack units' update would not be needed.


If this is going to go ahead I would agree that

1) Def should be Zero for it to work. Unarmed untrained men simple cant get past an armed trained def.

2) There should be 2x kill ratios, if the attack regs/supers are armed then unarmed lifers should die at a high rate, say 10-1. If the attack regs/supers are unarmed then a lower rate, say 2-1 since one unit are trained fighters and the other are not.

3) The standard 10 Mill lifer assault should use an appropriate amount of ATs per hit, say 100 ATs

Small stat players and snipers wont be effected as their small stats still arent worth sabbing or massings due to sab % and cost of ATs

The effect of using lifers to kill attack soldiers, and creating more lifers by people training/untraining spies/ACers when they are on/offline, while also reducing the number of UU on the market by taking away the best place for raiders to store them will be a vast reduction in the army sizes of all active big stat fighters. The opposite of taking out snipers.






IMO a better idea would be letting the strike fight as a def say at 75% of normal power after the def has been taken down,

Example

Player 'A' has 1 trill def and 10 trill strike, def gets massed by someone and player 'A' phases

Player 'B' comes along a few hours later when player 'A' phase meter has come down, player 'B' will need to build a 7.5 trill strike to match and take down player 'A's strike fighting as def.

This way the attacker ( Player 'B' ) has to build a strike to take out players 'A's strike instead of getting it for free with lifers without training/building. And Player 'A' can leave more spies out since his strike would also have to be taken down before cheap ACing.

lol, more killing ...
less options to hide ..
making it once again harder on the people who are not that battle active.

Admin, you realise that less then 300 players in this game are active with attacking ??? (and declining)

This update will favor those who are already big and strong with high covert levels and have miners to spare. They will simply sab the defence to 0.
The smaller players will get the downside of this, those who generally do not have millions of lifers/units to spare and small coverts ....

Oh well .. to throw in some logic, instead of having to rely on the defence power to be 0.
You could make it so that the ratio for is depended on the amount of super soldiers on the planet, (yes, attack supers included).
I would suspect a super soldier, with or without weapons, should be able to kill of a few miners before it dies. The more supers on a target, the more lifers need to be sent to kill 1.

Result, defence will be zeroed, def supers killed, and while lifering the attack units, the ratio needed to kill them goes down.

Possible problems, a lot more attack supers get trained.
That might be a good thing, that new market option might get used a bit more.


Overall: this update is a bad idea. It 'forces' more activity and building.
Those who do not desire this, ... well .. you can imagine what they will do .... loose intrest.
Instead of thinking up updates that changes game mechanics, forcing 'more' activity, why not think/work on some updates that will improve the player base, instead of pushing the opinion of the current player base about the game mechanics around.

If you're trying to stop the snipers, why not put a hard cap on the off/def ratio? Say a 2:1 ratio or so for those with a total army size of more than 10 mil. That forces folks to build a def.

I'd much prefer to see lifers able to take out other lifers rather than attack units. The snipers would then lose the ability to bounce back so quickly. And it'd give a group of smaller players being bullied by one large player an option to cut the larger player's income.

the idea of Liver vs Super is quite out of context the admin initial post, supers are un trainable units so far resulting in not hiding.

if by using lifers to kill supers will be implemented then wars will be fought in different mode and this game for the first will make full circle. (old times when everything was killable)

Lithium wrote:the idea of Liver vs Super is quite out of context the admin initial post, supers are un trainable units so far resulting in not hiding.

if by using lifers to kill supers will be implemented then wars will be fought in different mode and this game for the first will make full circle. (old times when everything was killable)

YA!

This needs some major tweaking, to kill attackers with lifers it needs a stupid rate, 4:1, 5:1, it would be used, but not abused this way,

Think about it, 500mill army vs a 100mill army,

With this update you can destory everything that account has or makes, and as you have 5 times the UU to use, they have no chance. This now makes it so easy to technically sit on someones account.

Maybe a time limit on someones defense being 0 should be introduced, say 8-12 hours, else you really could sit on someones account.

I have a massive army and i dont even support this update as it stands.

Time delay and bigger ratio needed, to even it a little bit, its not a fair playing field, if you can sit on a person and destory everything they have as soon as its built they will just quit, you just pushed $$ players well and truly to the top of the food chain, everyone else is screwed.

Personally you should have made it that for every turn someone has 0 defense then lose 0.5% of there attack weapons.