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GrizzZzzly wrote:Have you ever wondered why all these incidents happen in america? How many guns are there in america and in England? How many of these people were criminals before these shootings they did? Notice that these are all incidents that have happened from previous "good citizens". This has nothing to do with illegal importing of guns or any of that crap.

All these incidents involve a "regular citizen" flipping out with the possession of a gun. That scenario is far less likely to ever happen in England.

This still brings me back to the point that the solution to gun crime cannot be to arm everyone. I know this is a big talking point in America right now with armed officers potentially being brought into schools. But when does it stop? you have a handgun he has a rifle, you arm yourself with a rifle, he gets out his automatic gun, you arm yourself with an automatic gun? How is that a solution? thats so counterproductive its funny.

There's 3.4M guns in England, about .0012% are used in murders. There's 300,000,000 guns in America with about .0026% used in murders. Not even 1/100 of 1%.

Now compare that to doctors and their death rates. 200,000 malpractice deaths a year compared to 954,000 doctors. Or 20.96% of doctors will kill a patient this year.

IDK about you, but I'd be a lot more worried about doctors than guns.

No one is suggesting that we arm everyone. I am merely stating gun control is ineffective, impractical in the U.S. and is counterproductive. Taking the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens just means that criminals will be the only one with guns. When that happens, you end up with Sandy Hooks and Auroras and Luby's.

When someone goes on a shooting spree where there are armed citizens, they often don't become massacres. Like the shooting in Texas 2 weeks after the Aurora shooting. There was a mass murderer hopeful stopped by an armed off duty Deputy Sheriff.

You can't take all the guns off the streets in America, if you try it will end in war. Even if it didn't, there'd still be millions of guns unaccounted for and then even more that come up through the border. And before you start talking about how Mexican cartels get their guns from American dealers, allow me to remind you that is was Bush and Obama that greenlit those sells. The dealers didn't want to sell to those buyers, but the ATF strong-armed them into it.

I agree with Grizzly.

Guns are not the answer nor the cure to gun-problems.

You don't empower the criminals, the criminals are armed because the public is armed.

Look at other countries where guns aren't legal... have a look and see if children are being shot there.

A normal citizen should not be carrying automatic weapons!

Guns make you paranoid - want me to post the statistic of how many INNOCENT life's are lost due to the paranoid public? Where people are shot only because someone THINKS they are dangerous and carrying a gun?

How many innocent people for example, has the US Police killed out of fear? When in fact, the suspect wasn't even carrying a gun? I'm not trying to bash the police, but when the police officers assume everyone has guns (cause americans love their guns) they grow paranoid and start shooting first, asking questions later. The result are horrifying.

Cops Shoots Unarmed Woman Motorist

"Now is not the time to talk about keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people."

That’s what we have been hearing from many pundits and politicians in the wake of the Aurora shootings.
But try telling that to the parents of Lloyd Morgan, the 4-year-old boy who was shot and killed this week at a Bronx playground.

Try telling that to the parents of Isaiah Gonzalez, the 3-year-old boy shot two weeks ago at a Brooklyn playground.

Try telling that to the four daughters of New York City Police Officer Peter Figoski, who was killed with an illegal gun just before Christmas last year.

Although New York City is the safest big city in the country — and we are on pace this year to set a new record for the fewest number of murders — one murder is still too many. And the problem of illegal guns stretches across the country.

Every day, 34 Americans are murdered with guns. That’s 12,000 innocent people killed each year with guns, many of them possessed illegally.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/auro ... z2Gm2byqxj

Oh and

In the U.S., innocent bystanders account for a third of those killed in police chases

Yeah... guns do real great protecting you guys... as long as your not one of those 34 EVERY SINGLE DAY or an INNOCENT bystander.


-KJ

My country is safest according to these statistics... that's because we don't feel need arm ourselves against each other!

Mayor Bloomberg is called Mayor Bloomingidiot for a reason. Hell, even Google calls him an idiot. Just type in Michael Bloomberg and Google will suggest adding idiot. I wouldn't quote him if I were you.

Was it not this thread where I posted a video of him incorrectly describing sporting rifles as automatics in an interview with a reporter that called him on it?

There was a total of 12k murders for 2011, of which only 8k were committed with a gun. About 4k less than just a couple years ago. You see, all this wild eyed **Filtered** that gun crime is an epidemic in America is completely ignoring two facts.

1. Crime is going down, a LOT, including murder.
2. Gun rights have drastically increased along with gun ownership.

People LOVE to compare the UK with the US, saying UK's strict gun laws reduce the number of gun murders. They also proclaim that this is proof of all the blood in the streets doomsday prophecies that more guns equates to more gun murders.

Again, I point to the above two facts. But this time I add some more: UK crime rates are generally higher than US crime rates with a few exceptions.

The UK has 6 gun owners for every 100 people as compared to the US' 90 for every 100. The UK has a murder/population ratio about half of America's. So if it is true that more guns means more murder. Then why isn't there a lot more gun murders in America? We have 15 times as many gun owners but only twice as many murders. If the claim were true, you'd see a lot more murders. The statistics point to another cause for America's 'murder problem.'

And indeed, cities like Chicago and DC are proof positive of this. Chicago is one of, if not, the most dangerous places to live. In one night they had something like 50 shootings. But Chicago also has the most draconian gun control measures in the nation.

There is no correlation between gun murder and gun ownership. When you compare the total number of gun murders to the total number of guns, the number is so infinitesimally small that it would be laughed at in just about any other discussion.

As for innocent people killed by citizens accidentally in self defense? A hell of a lot less than what the police kill.

This isn't an argument to disarm the populace, if anything it is an argument to disarm the police! Sure as hell ain't an argument of having only the police armed, or increasing the presence of armed police. That's just **Filtered** stupid. No offense. But really. Your solution to the police everyone and their brother is to render the populace helpless while increasing the number of armed, heavily armed at that, police officers?

They don't even understand why you have the 2nd amendment, so why do you even bother?

If not mistaken, both Finland (in your map of safest nations) and Switzerland have lax gun laws...

Anyway, Mali in this map? Well, this map must be few years old because that's not a safe-from-gun-assaults anymore...

As for police being armed, well thankfully they are, in my country many cities have unarmed police coupled with strict gun laws, meaning the ones having guns are...thugs!

Yes, I am pro-security and thus I advocate for self defense rights whether it's for police forces, shop owners in their shops and citizens at home.

But not while you're away from home, Pops? Most DGUs happen outside the home.

I never mentioned UK how ever. The map I posted is just to show you my country with 0,0 murder rate.

In fact, 40 % of murders in US with guns are illegal guns. If that doesn't make you realize you need far better gun-laws then something is seriously wrong.

And you don't need M16's or assault riffle's of some sort for protection. Why don't Americans just all drive tanks and never step out of one? That way you'd be much safer from your neighbours.

So, Dovahkiin, are you basically saying that the guns aren't the problem. But the nation?

Kjarkur wrote:In fact, 40 % of murders in US with guns are illegal guns. If that doesn't make you realize you need far better gun-laws then something is seriously wrong.

You mean this type of illegal gun?

http://abcnews.go.com/ABC_Univision/New ... OSDy6zehCg

A very serious matter.

But I doubt it's in the calculations. So the percentage might be even higher.

"A very serious matter"? you are talking about 2 Govts (bushes Govt started it i believe) engaged in running guns (as well as grenades and other weapons) to known criminal organisations. you are also talking about the attorney general caught perjuring himself. you are also talking about guns which were shipped by the US Govt to known criminals who then used those guns to kill US boarder agents and all you can say is "A very serious matter".

What you need to be asking is why they ran guns and weapons to known criminal organisations because the official story is pure BS.
I can tell you now, it wasn't to track the guns since US banks have been caught and fined for laundering 100's of billions of dollars worth of drug money.

So before you people demonise the 2nd amendment do some home work.

Doesn't change the fact that guns make you more paranoid and normal citizens do not require assault riffle's. (Nobody said anything about boarder agents, of course they should be heavily armed)

A normal citizen should not have the power to execute another citizen.

Does not change the fact that you need strict laws on gun-ownership. Cause 40 % of the guns used in murders are acquired illegally.


-KJ

Kjarkur wrote:I never mentioned UK how ever. The map I posted is just to show you my country with 0,0 murder rate.

In fact, 40 % of murders in US with guns are illegal guns. If that doesn't make you realize you need far better gun-laws then something is seriously wrong.

And you don't need M16's or assault riffle's of some sort for protection. Why don't Americans just all drive tanks and never step out of one? That way you'd be much safer from your neighbours.

So, Dovahkiin, are you basically saying that the guns aren't the problem. But the nation?

No, I'm saying there isn't a problem. Crime is SHRINKING and at a damn good rate. Crime is already low, with the exception of a few major cities.

Where those places are concerned, it's not guns that are the problem, it's corruption and gangs.

A weapons ban will never have enough teeth or solve the problem of all those already illegal guns out in circulation. Not that I am against a ban, just don't know if its a real solution. Only politics as usual.

Gun laws to make them so hard to get or a ban just means that the honest people get frakked over.

It would be better if there was a US Federal law that states in order to buy a weapon, you need to buy a proper safe and lock at the sametime and take a 40 hour class on weapon safety. Failure to take the class or failure to pass the class, as well as refuse to buy the proper safe and lock in accordance with the law means you are not able to buy a weapon.

This is on top of everything that is needed to buy a weapon.

Increase funding for places that takes cares of the mentally ill people instead of just putting them in prison. Make Ads, commericals, 40 hour classes, 24 hour hotlines to help explain signs of someone becoming mentally ill.


This is what is needed the most instead of making laws and banns that make the honest citizens be frakked over, anyone knows that people doing illegal things will also get weapons illegal.

Also with the case of assault weapons or weapons that people want to consider them as assault, just make it on a case by case bases of why the person wants or needs it. Have people investigate why so has to find out it the reason is it needed.