StarGateWars Forums

Wolf359 wrote:

high empty wrote:

Zeratul wrote:if the market no longer makes turns, the weaker players can sell turns there to get great amounts of naq, and by the time they ascend/get FSS, they can start to black market for turns...

think how the price would grow on turns if market stopped generating them... then think how much naq a newbie needs to get respectable stats... then add the two together, and see the result...

i know how it would grow it was done about 5 months ago it didn't work, turns are always worth more then what you can sell them for. People will aways sell turns however anyone that sells turns isn't getting farther ahead, he's might be not losing ground as fast, but the quick buck isn't the best buck.

I agree - completely - under the current system selling turns is not the smartest move - but neither is anything else (for various reasons I have previously explained) - the long and short of it is that the current setup of the game favours and makes it easier for the stronger to increase their accounts at a faster rate than the rest.

Under a system where there are no artifially created turns, and where a sensible low limit is put on the amount of turns an account will hold, then their is massive potential for those that sell turns to earn real naq/uu to boost their accounts.

But how would selling their turns ultimately get them anywhere? It would help them more in this senario than it does now, but it would in no way help them catch up to the top players who have enjoyed about a year of unlimited turns, and thus unlimited raiding. By having turns as they are currently players atleast have the option to build up their accounts, through lots of work and dedication. It is harder for small players to grow than the bigger players, no doubt, but atleast they can. Without having market produced turns no matter how determined they are, or how good of a player they become, they would never be able to catch up.

Sure, they could make a decent bit selling some turns...but do you think they would ever be able to catch up with players with more than 10 mil army size by just selling their 3 turns they get per turn?(because selling your only turns eliminates farming/raiding growth obviously). It would only help solidify the top players on their throws by ensuring no future competition from new players.

*sigh*

the point is, that turns would become very costly - so the smaller players would be able to demand very hight prices (because the bigger players will not want to sell) for their turns. With the very high amounts of naq they receive, they can then plough it into building their stats, increasing UU etc. They would not need to farm/raid - they would be happily bringing in their profit while lettng teh bigger players fight amongst each other (with the turns they have sold them).

Yes - it may not totally make it so they can catch up with the biggest players - but it would (at the very least) slow down the rate of increase between the two sets of players and give them at least a fighting chance.

Saying that new/small players at least have the option to build up their accounts because of the mass availability of turns is, in my opinion, flawed, because the smaller/newer players do not have the resources AND the stats to effectively use those turns - and even if they did, they would be beaten to it by the bigger players, who can raid more targets and for more time.

At the moment their is NO competition for the top players - and if something isn't done to change the farce regarding AT, there never will be!

What I have suggested (and it is by no means perfect) just might make it harder for the bigger players by limiting their attacking ability - whilst making it easier for the smaller/newer players because they know they can ask for high prices for AT, BECAUSE of the limited attacking (and, I've said it before, the game was much better anyway before it was tarnished by mass AT!).

Forum has tried other things to stop this inbalance (and quite honestly the unit size cap hasn't really addressed the issue) - but it will take some balls to implememnt anything that would actually make a difference.

How would small players catch up? Let me try this.

First of all, limiting market turns will drive up the prices and reduce availability of turns. For everyone. Wisely using the turns that you get for free is going to be more important.

As a result of these more expensive turns, people will have to wait longer for their raid farms to produce enough units to make a profit off turns. So raid targets become a lot better.

So, in one swoop, we have increased the value of turns, AND increased the amount of units newer players can get with them. Sure, they can't use unlimited turns. But then again, only those that use their turns intelligently should deserve the privilege of joining the higher ranks. It has to be about playing smart, like it used to be.

One more thing that should be addressed. Why can someone with 10M army size raid someone with only 50k army size? Raids are limited, I know. But by rank. Since when was that ever a useful measure of power? Raids should be limited by army size, not rank. Just to make sure those with 50M army sizes can't raid those with 50k. Leaves yet more raid targets for the little guys. Just make it so you can't raid anyone whose army size is <= 1/10 of your own. And to prevent workarounds, it should keep track of the largest army size you had over the past month. So people can't send off their units, raid like mad, and get their UU's back.


Thanks Wolf, for getting this debate off the ground.

what I find funny is this

Same person who siphoned all the turns out of the Black Market is suggesting a idea like this...


...IMHO these types of ideas aren't meant to help any1 except yourself

[SGC_ReplicÅtors] wrote:what I find funny is this

Same person who siphoned all the turns out of the Black Market is suggesting a idea like this...


...IMHO these types of ideas aren't meant to help any1 except yourself

Yeah well that's after he "fixed" the uu problem turning them into lifers.
what was i supposed to do with 1 trill naq by a spy level.

Issue here is that the number of turns are stable, and if someone really wants to have 200k turns what's the problem with that as long as there are turns on the market and they aren't giving them away.



As for any small time players well it's a careful line you have to walk when setting the price of material. I've seen some people be massed cause they tried to sell (their uu) at high prices. As for Corksrew paying 100bill for 10k turns meh it's really isn't that much, 200-500bil, well we might be getting close to the limit, however how is ANY one else going to be able to get turns at all. True the amount someone can raid will go up, But so what it's gone up from 14k to 40k in the past 6 months.

With unlimited turns what's the problem if someone has them, think he can still only use them so fast. He just doesn't need to look for someone to sell them to him. But i supposed the best way to solve this would be to get the market another 10x per market turn. That would mabye solve some of those small problems.

Sleipnir wrote:One more thing that should be addressed. Why can someone with 10M army size raid someone with only 50k army size? Raids are limited, I know. But by rank. Since when was that ever a useful measure of power? Raids should be limited by army size, not rank. Just to make sure those with 50M army sizes can't raid those with 50k.

that's not really a fair judge either. I don't know if you raid or not, Sleipnir, but as a daily raider, I'll point out that generally, anyone with over a 300k army size who isn't ostracized, doesn't have enough uu out to make it worth raiding.

I mean, that is general. But yea. Most raid targets out there, have between a 40k and 100k army size. As they quite playing and either never got that high, or gave/sold all they're stuff off.

I'M geting tired of those players who have HUGE alliances and LITLE power, try everyway get more power, by taking way the other guys turns, so they CAN make a diference by #!!!

This game DON't HAVE strategy, BUT some PLAYERS HAVE, and thats WHY some have 50 MILL army and OTHERS 6,5 MILL.

PSICOLIX wrote:I'M geting tired of those players who have HUGE alliances and LITLE power, try everyway get more power, by taking way the other guys turns, so they CAN make a diference by #!!!

This game DON't HAVE strategy, BUT some PLAYERS HAVE, and thats WHY some have 50 MILL army and OTHERS 6,5 MILL.

I actually agree with Psicolix's point.

311 [TA] wrote:

PSICOLIX wrote:I'M geting tired of those players who have HUGE alliances and LITLE power, try everyway get more power, by taking way the other guys turns, so they CAN make a diference by #!!!

This game DON't HAVE strategy, BUT some PLAYERS HAVE, and thats WHY some have 50 MILL army and OTHERS 6,5 MILL.

I actually agree with Psicolix's point.

It was more like a rant than a point - and edging towards personal attacks - so be careful.

If you don't have anything useful/constructive to add - then please don't.

And like I have said (countless times) turns wouldn't be taken away - think of it as removal of additional turns that you never used to get - excess turns have made the game deficient of skill/strategy - so any chimp with a finger can press buttons and do the same old boring cycle of buy turns/raid/buy turns/raid.

And remember that people tend to discuss these things because they believe they are doing it for the good of the game (I do anyway).

Rienna wrote:

Sleipnir wrote:One more thing that should be addressed. Why can someone with 10M army size raid someone with only 50k army size? Raids are limited, I know. But by rank. Since when was that ever a useful measure of power? Raids should be limited by army size, not rank. Just to make sure those with 50M army sizes can't raid those with 50k.

that's not really a fair judge either. I don't know if you raid or not, Sleipnir, but as a daily raider, I'll point out that generally, anyone with over a 300k army size who isn't ostracized, doesn't have enough uu out to make it worth raiding.

I mean, that is general. But yea. Most raid targets out there, have between a 40k and 100k army size. As they quite playing and either never got that high, or gave/sold all they're stuff off.

Did you see my army size? Of course I don't raid. Regularly, that is. I'm perfectly content catching up on my own terms. One of the things that used to give small players a chance to catch up was commanders. I've always tried to help my officers as best I could to catch up. And since available naq and UU grow with the game, this was always possible. But with the mass availability of turns and the mass blanket raids, UU out there haven't grown very much, and neither has naq. If there were fewer turns, or more limits on big attacking small, there would be a LOT more for the little guys to grow on.

Maybe army size alone would also not be the best choice. But at least it should count towards your rank in that case, or some other limit should be imposed.

high empty wrote:As for any small time players well it's a careful line you have to walk when setting the price of material. I've seen some people be massed cause they tried to sell (their uu) at high prices. As for Corksrew paying 100bill for 10k turns meh it's really isn't that much, 200-500bil, well we might be getting close to the limit, however how is ANY one else going to be able to get turns at all.

Again, you mention people getting massed over ridiculous causes. Limit turns and this will be a lot less common. And that will make for a much less tense and heated community.

high empty wrote:True the amount someone can raid will go up, But so what it's gone up from 14k to 40k in the past 6 months.

Go figure how much it would have gone up if there hadn't been infinite turns to spend on them.

high empty wrote:

True the amount someone can raid will go up, But so what it's gone up from 14k to 40k in the past 6 months.


Go figure how much it would have gone up if there hadn't been infinite turns to spend on them.
_________________

It's like this.

It would have gone up to maybe 100k big deal ( alot high) ( Note the base UP has Gone WAY UP too. back when raiding for 14k the high ups were at 10k. NOW we raid for 40-50k and the ups are at 20-30k with highs in 50-100k.

BUT here the thing, we would have an influx of new accounts, so that those accounts could Just sell to the market there turns. and someone else would buy them off it. Same as before but another step added. They would just sell their turns. then use the naq and buy UP. Later people would raid those accounts.

people like to raid, they like to fam & they like to mass ..no mather your armysise you can alwais find someone you can pewne
AT cheap & plenty are the blood of the game, are what keeps it interesting ... (& you all noticed the War in stargatewars )

so the real question is not if that AT should be scarce ..NO ONE wants to have to wait A LOT to have a little fun ..or be able to fast- build up his acount with some farming & raiding ...is just how can you help newbies grow faster??

let me give ya a hint - fix the bloody comander- officer benefits ,they're worthless as they are now only then people with large & huge armysises will be able to "aford" having officers & newbies will get a LOT of naq ,on a regular sise ...& also keep they're own ATs to raid/farm

& teh only way to do that is to increase the naq a conmander with very active officers gets ... & separate naq /for uu deals with each officer - this will enable oficers to get a fair pay for they're Up( & comanders to keep a quite diferent tipe of officers with very different Ups - good players, but nwebs as well)

in an ideal game there will be no ATs & everyone will be able to fight everyone at will ...but I haven't seen a server that can suport this game at sucha level

*sighs*

I don't know why I'm bothering because people just don't seem to be grasping it - but - it was MORE interesting before ATs were more freely available. People had to work together more - The preparation was part of the enjoyment and the conversations during massing were brilliant.

I have taken part in massings both prior to and after the mass availability of turns was introduced - and I can say with 100% certainty that it was more fun beforehand.

There is no fun/challenge in simply buying 10k attack turns to mass someone because they dared to attack you for naq, in what you quite rightly pointed out is a WAR game. And it is mind numbingly boring just to buy 20k AT tro raid - gee what fun!

Please tell me how it is fun - I desperately want to understand.

It has also, because of the easy availability of turns to mass someone just because they made an attack for naq, created a certain amount of bullying and scare tactics, which HAS limited peoples enjoyment of the game, made them quit, and even created a sense of arrogance and disrespect in the forum (that definately was not around previously).

If boring, repetitive, unstimulating, unchallenging, underhand and bullying gaming is what you like, then fight to keep things the way they are - personally I'd rather have my kidneys scooped out with a rusty spoon.

Ultimately this game is about the community - and in the last year the community has got overly hostile towards each other, self righteous and, at times, acts like a spoilt kid who has been told 'no more candy' - things need to change.

Wolf, munchy posted a very good suggestion that takes into account your concern about the massings you posted you were tired and didn't really understand it all, could you take a look at it now, and give it a good look, because I think he addresses many of your concerns and mine at the same time.