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Corran Horn wrote:Read the book first, then post about those countries. Xeno, you read it too, cos you're falling into the same trap Apophis is in.

For the record, what trap am I falling into?
I can guess... but...

Corran Horn wrote:still don't know what is "capitalist" in your opinion. Imo France has NEVER been capitalist.

Agreed.
Throwing a few tidbits to free-enterprise to alleviate your social-program's financial burden is not capitalist.

8 Ireland 6.5%

I must say that is the first time i've ever noticed Ireland's ranking.
Quite impressive.

CIA (real life one lol) brought them in, so I doubt they were anything else than capitalists, because they were put here to prevent from any communism.

I think you missed my point. In any case where the CIA may have planted a leader... yes that leader would be capitalist, but it does not follow that his country would automatically recieve a capitalist economy, fully tooled and running.

Corran Horn wrote:It's midnight here and I'm knackered, so I'll just answer this:

Apophis The Great wrote:-I know there was a civil war, but I didnt say such things happend only on salvador, it happens on most of south america, and these countries were under capitalisms regimes installed by CIA in 70's

Read the book first, then post about those countries. Xeno, you read it too, cos you're falling into the same trap Apophis is in.

-France WAS NOT capitalist. Until 2004. But they decided to make it more & more capitalist. The candidate to election Sarkozy is called the "american" in many anglo-saxons papers, that says all

still don't know what is "capitalist" in your opinion. Imo France has NEVER been capitalist.

-Sweden and north europe are most performants countries in Europe, is it a prob to be like them?
Capitalists & Socialists in France say they are the most successful countries in Europe, yeah both agrees on it

?????????????

GDP growth rate, 1991-2005 average:

Data available : 155 countries
1 Equatorial Guinea 33.0%
2 China 10.1%
3 Myanmar (Burma) 9.0%
4 Cambodia 7.8%
5 Viet Nam 7.6%
6 Qatar 7.4%
7 Chad 7.1%
8 Ireland 6.5%
8 Kuwait 6.5%
8 Maldives 6.5%
8 Mozambique 6.5%
12 Singapore 6.4%
(...)
43 Luxembourg 4.5%
(...)
58 Turkey 4.0%
60 Cyprus 3.9%
61 El Salvador 3.8%
(...)
68 Poland 3.6%
(...)
80 Australia 3.3%
81 Albania 3.2%
(...)
81 Norway 3.2%
(...)
90 Greece 3.0%
90 Iceland 3.0%
(...)
90 Spain 3.0%
90 United States 3.0%
(...)
108 United Kingdom 2.4%
(...)
113 Netherlands 2.3%
(...)
117 Austria 2.2%
(...)
117 Denmark 2.2%
117 Finland 2.2%
117 Portugal 2.2%
117 Sweden 2.2%
(...)
127 Belgium 2.0%
127 Hungary 2.0%
(...)
133 France 1.7% Check full list, BANGLADESH and PAKISTAN are higher!!!
136 Germany 1.6%
(...)
138 Czech Republic 1.4%
140 Italy 1.3%
140 Japan 1.3%
(...)
144 Switzerland 1.0%


Full list here: http://www.dataranking.com/table.cgi?LG=e&TP=ne02-4

Can you tell in the context what gross means?
I dont see without knowing sense of word it's bad as I see Japan & Switzerland under, as Germany. So what is it about?

Its harder for a large economy, such as the US economy, to grow as much as a small economy.

Thats why Equatorial Guinea is #1 GDP growth, whilst still having a sucky economy.

The Xeno wrote:

Corran Horn wrote:Read the book first, then post about those countries. Xeno, you read it too, cos you're falling into the same trap Apophis is in.

For the record, what trap am I falling into?
I can guess... but...

Trap of irrelevance.
Apophis is concerned bout the poor in the third world. I guess he means all those living in favelas/shantytowns. But:
he thinks this situation is because of capitalism - he's wrong
you think capitalism will help them - you're wrong

Why? Because there's no capitalism in shantytowns and it' never was. Capitalism is impossible there. More than that, socialism is impossible there as well (one may try with in though, but the experiment will end in even bigger disaster).

Why is this, how and what to do about this? - Read The Book!

In any case where the CIA may have planted a leader... yes that leader would be capitalist, but it does not follow that his country would automatically recieve a capitalist economy, fully tooled and running.

Let's not talk about CIA, OK? They've planted Osama, so...

Apophis The Great wrote:Can you tell in the context what gross means?
I dont see without knowing sense of word it's bad as I see Japan & Switzerland under, as Germany. So what is it about?

They didn't tell you in High School ?

Wikipedia wrote:The GDP of a country is defined as the market value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period of time. It is also considered the sum of value added at every stage of production of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period of time.
(...)
"Gross" means depreciation of capital stock is not included. With depreciation, with net investment instead of gross investment, it is the net domestic product.

A few words regarding the ranking posted:

This is GDP growth which means how fast economy is growing, not how big, or how wealthy it is. For that we should use GDP per capita table. There Switzerland and Germany will be closer to the top. That table shows that these two countries are stagnant.

Also I chose 15 years average, as economy is always changing. This is arithmetic mean average (most commonly used). The problem with it is it's very sensitive to extreme values. IMO, to have a better picture there should be mode taken into consideration, but it's difficult to find this data.

Gatedialer wrote:Its harder for a large economy, such as the US economy, to grow as much as a small economy.

That's what is seems, but it isn't true, just coincidence. Look at China. Most of large economies today have the problem of state meddling with them. That meddling causes unexpected, and mostly unpredictable tensions within the system, thus making it more difficult for the economy to grow.


Patrick: if you were a head of a charity and knew there's more money to take, wouldn't you be hassling ppl for it?
And charities, as private organizations should exist. It's private, so it's OK with me.

Corran they told me at high school but you seem to have forgotten english is NOT my first language

Lysander wrote:mozart invented communism. its a proven fact by me and Q. its so obvious

yesh, he cirtainly did. no argument hiere.

... The tangents have been pruned, and moved to the dump under 'Pruned pod2'. Please, resume thread.

Thanks, Xeno

Apophis The Great wrote:Corran they told me at high school but you seem to have forgotten english is NOT my first language

But they explained the definition to you, did they? It should be the same in English and Francaise IMAO.

Corran Horn wrote:Thanks, Xeno

Apophis The Great wrote:Corran they told me at high school but you seem to have forgotten english is NOT my first language

But they explained the definition to you, did they? It should be the same in English and Francaise IMAO.

Francais ***

English isn't my first language either

Given that I have failed at every attempt to learn a second laungage...
I've no comment, but to applaud those who have.

Corran Horn wrote:Trap of irrelevance.
Apophis is concerned bout the poor in the third world. I guess he means all those living in favelas/shantytowns. But:
he thinks this situation is because of capitalism - he's wrong
you think capitalism will help them - you're wrong

Hmm...
They have to start somewhere - and I would assume that on a basic level, a rented shovel is just a scaled down version of a rented back-hoe. Progress should still be seen, provided the government and people are set up to embrace it.

We have seen, after all, stories of men in poverty stricken nations, who have received some form of capital (in the instance I recall, it was a bicycle), and managed to develop a small business around renting that capital and now own a great deal more capital, and because of their business, their neighbors are profiting (in the one case, they were getting to work/market/family faster etc.)

Obviously, in that example, I pulled a Thoreau... but...
----------------------------------------

Now I would agree that implementing capitalism might be near impossible - and just because an economy embraces individual initiative/capitalism does not mean it suddenly has access to new natural resources - but still... in theory, bar a perfect dictatorship... I can't see much that would be all that better.

The Xeno wrote:Given that I have failed at every attempt to learn a second laungage...
I've no comment, but to applaud those who have.

TNX!

Hmm...
They have to start somewhere - and I would assume that on a basic level, a rented shovel is just a scaled down version of a rented back-hoe. Progress should still be seen, provided the government and people are set up to embrace it.

That's just initiative at the small scale. And this is still not enough. And even that not enough may be difficult. Read The Book!

We have seen, after all, stories of men in poverty stricken nations, who have received some form of capital (in the instance I recall, it was a bicycle), and managed to develop a small business around renting that capital and now own a great deal more capital, and because of their business, their neighbors are profiting (in the one case, they were getting to work/market/family faster etc.)

A friend of mine. I'm not sure what form of capital she's received but she's doing well now. I admire her.

Now I would agree that implementing capitalism might be near impossible - and just because an economy embraces individual initiative/capitalism does not mean it suddenly has access to new natural resources - but still... in theory, bar a perfect dictatorship... I can't see much that would be all that better.

One doesn't need to implement capitalism, as it's the natural way the advanced society works. It implements itself (unless some government Spacey will edit out start messing in the system). But still, there needs to be the ground for it, proper mechanisms, and wide-recognized PROPERTY titles.

Read The Book, or shall I post it here?

Oye, the United States is not socialist, it however does have some socialist style programs. However this is not the case because not every single person in the United States requires the Government to live. Oh and Universal Health Care is a step towards socailism. Guess what folks? State/Government operated health care sucks. Why is the united states the best country in the world when it comes down to health care? Why do you always hear about world leaders going to the United States for medical attention? Capitalism! Buy and Sell. The better your product, the more people you will have to sell to. Capitalism inspires competion which leads to people competeing to be better and better, in this case the best doctors around. In the end, it is win win. Plus the United States has Universal Health Care already. It is illegal for you to be turned down medical attention at an emergency room. Just ask anyone that has used that, even non citizens.


Communism is impossible to implement due to humans being human.

Socialism sucks since when A government is running everything, things tend to slow down, and you have to wait.......Take the DMV for example. In the state of Connecticut there is an average of a 3 month wait to get a license test. Though one thing about the Government, they are not delayed to collect taxes!

Anarchy, won't work. That is obvious.

Democracy: Practically impossible to implement. Take the United States, 300 million people, 300 million votes, impossible. Plus there is enough arguing going on with not even a fraction of that number leading the Government. Chaos is better than Democracy.

Democratic Republic!!!!!!! This is what the United States. Yes, the United States is a Democratic republic, not a Democracy. I find it funny that even politicians call it a Democracy when it is not. A democratic republic is a efficient version of Democracy.

Personally I do not care what kind of Government I live under. I will live to the belief of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. No Government will impede my rights.

All hail to vinny d!!

btw: Could you send that health system explanation to the Irish nurses?

Corran Horn wrote:All hail to vinny d!!

btw: Could you send that health system explanation to the Irish nurses?

they took advantage of you too? damn anisthetic...

Lysander wrote:

Corran Horn wrote:All hail to vinny d!!

btw: Could you send that health system explanation to the Irish nurses?

they took advantage of you too? damn anisthetic...

it was actually me friend. it'd never have happened in a private hospital!

yay, finally a pro capatilist.


Government will always be bias and corrupt, thus why having the government providing the services will always suck.

Maybe just maybe, the government will eventually let the economy go on its own with little taxes and stick to stuff that it needs to do: military, laws, disaster relief stuff, space and other such national stuff. No more pork!