StarGateWars Forums

KSM wrote:So you want the guy or girl with the small ms to spend more than you while you are offline? Does anyone remember the USS Cole bombing? Does anyone think that little small boat spent more than the Cole had to? The bigger you are the more you should have to spend. Don't have a big ms if you can't afford to lose it. Or whine about it till admin changes it. If you repair you can not be beaten by this tactic while you are online.

You realize that the USS Cole survived the attack but the small boat was completely destroyed right? Or you think the small boat only took a little damage.

No really? Who would of thought? Of course the small boat was destroyed but it put the Cole out of service for how long? Took 14 months to repair the damage inflicted by a small boat with explosives. I'd say that small boat was alot smaller than the Cole but it still took care of its job. While its a tragic thing what happened its a good example that it doesn't really matter the size of something if someone is determined enough. This is just my opinion.

Yes but thats the point people are making. The small MS's do more damage but hardly take any damage. But the small boat got completely destroyed yet only a portion of the small MS gets hurt

But using the previous example thats how it should be. The small boat got completely destroyed but that was the point (it was a suicide mission). The bigger vessel took more damage though. The small craft lost the people onboard and the craft. The big ship got a 40 ft by 40 ft hole blown in the port side and lost 17 people in the process not counting the people who were injured. Now to me I'd say the small boat got the best of the situation. They did what they wanted to do and caused more damage overall. Why wouldn't it work the same way in the game?

It's not working the same way. The Smaller MS is not doing hardly any Damage to the bigger MS when taking into account the bigger MS shields. If the smaller MS is doing a suicide mission then it should lose more volleys since it has no shields. Do not understand why you feel it should take less then the bigger MS.

When taking into account forces and damage. They would both suffer the same amount of force. But the large vassal would absorb more of force to limit the amount of damage. So the large vassal would take less overall damage but the way SGW is set up is that it takes a percentage damage which would not be accurate in any type of interaction. That causes the larger MS to take a more sustained damage which is not correct.

Bump for a matter of importance.

you do know that all this talk is very nice but i'm strongly persuaded to be able to confidently say that this ain't going to happen

urogard wrote:you do know that all this talk is very nice but i'm strongly persuaded to be able to confidently say that this ain't going to happen

To be honest, I do not care if it won't happen. I'll still try to get it fixed. It is extremely lame that a smaller MS loses less then a big one due to a percent.

Noobert wrote:To be honest, I do not care if it won't happen. I'll still try to get it fixed. It is extremely lame that a smaller MS loses less then a big one due to a percent.

I'm with you on that one

Lore wrote:

Wolf359 wrote:Yes - that is stupid.

what exactly are you refering to?

If its what I said you have seriously stumped me mate LOL

I was agreeing with you:

Lore wrote:What I still cant understand is why 1 shield is as strong as 1K shields, stupid if you ask me.

XXX uses its Energy Volley to inflict 154,014,060,000 damage, destroying 6079 Matter-Phasic Shields on YYY!
The Mothership has exhausted all of its offensive power.

YYY uses its Nano Volley to inflict 645,645,550,000 damage, destroying 2 Energy Shields onXXX!
Blowing through the extended shield defenses, it also destroyed 3869 Energy Volley, and downed 0 fleets!


When my shields are 3 times as powerful as that strike. That should NOT be possible.

What's the point of having shields if any pipsqueak MS can mass yours?

I think what would be best is a combination of better hull maximisation and shields strength versus volley power in working out damage.

Wolf359 wrote:

Lore wrote:

Wolf359 wrote:Yes - that is stupid.

what exactly are you refering to?

If its what I said you have seriously stumped me mate LOL

I was agreeing with you:

Lore wrote:What I still cant understand is why 1 shield is as strong as 1K shields, stupid if you ask me.

But that goes against everything you argued me about in the MS discussion? You said because a ship had more shields that it should be easier to hit and therfore take more damage?

*Is seriously stumped now*

Must..keep..bumped..

After some thought...

Something to keep in mind, is that MS fighting isn't true MS fighting. Remember, each MS primary goal is to try and give a bonus to the ground force to ensure a ground victory.

Even if the reason your attacking is because you want to mass the MS, the game thinks you are attacking because you want the naq/uu or kill Covert that the defender has.

Like wise, the defending MS doesn't think the attacking MS wants to mass it, it thinks the attackers goal is to ensure a ground victory and get naq/uu or kill Covert.

So MS size doesn't matter, because each MS goal isn't so much to kill the other, but to infuse as much bonus as possible to the ground force while stopping the other MS as much as it can. Regardless of what you the player intended the attack to be.

Hence the % damage done/taken and why MS are not destroyed. Its not so much that the bigger MS can't do more damage to the opposing smaller MS, the bigger MS instead does only enough to achieve dominance and essentially force the smaller MS to run away allowing it(the bigger) to send any unused volley shots to give a bonus on the ground.

MS battles are not realistic because they are not true MS battles. Because games approach is that MS primary goal is to solely to infuse as much damage as bonus to the ground troops. Not to damage the other MS.

the solution is simple, you have to make them true MS battles first. To do this
First
-if MS A (shield power) is X times smaller than MS B (shield power),
--then no MS battle will even occur,
----the smaller MS will see it would make no tangible difference in the outcome of the ground battle.
--(edited)Why shield instead of combination of volley shield, this is to ensure that both sides will actually have large numbers of shields to lose.
--This will not cause people to solely invest in shields, because they can't then destroy other peoples MS, and if they do do that, well, that just gives anyone who does invest in volleys, a clear advantage over anyone who doesn't have volleys.

--X = whatever number it needs to be balanced. I would assume the 1/5 rule, but from what I'm reading it may even need to be 1/4 or 1/3. I think 1/2 would be too far.

If someone who has done a lot of MS battles lately could show numbers and math showing why one or even a different number would be balanced, I'd appreciate it. I myself have been gone from the game 2 months and don't have enough adequate battles to run numbers. And I'm not going to back particular number over another without evidence to back it up.

The 2nd, is to remove the ground bonus as the primary goal of MS.
-In order for say MS A to supply a bonus to ground force, MS B would have to agree to not fight, as in its power(shields) would have be below the X mark.
-True MS battles, not each MS trying to simply push the other out of the way and then bonus the ground troops.

A 3rd thing is a slight change in how fleets engage
-IF your MS does NOT engage, any fleets it has, still launch and engage the enemy MS.
--Lose roughly Y-Z% of all fleets launch.
---goal is to have a range of 3% (ie. 5-7%), where 5% has the MS take more naq loss than fleets, 7% has fleets take more naq loss, and 6% being somewhere in between. Might need a slightly wider than 3% range.
---again if someone who has numbers can show why a different number set is better, that would be appreciated.
--Why do they engage, otherwise we run into a problem with people sitting around with soley fleets trained and massing planets and the defender wouldn't be able to strike back and kill the fleets because the MS wouldn't have any volley's/shields.
--At same time, fleets are expensive compared to the cost, and well, seeing as they can be sold to drop an MS out of attack range anyway. No point in including them in the total power if an MS is to engage, or not.



Pros
Solves the smaller MS being able to cheaply Mass a bigger MS
--still theoretically possible with fleets, just as equally is it costing more.

Protects smaller players MS from bigger players MS.



Cons
Bigger players MS will have an easier time of providing a ground bonus,
--of course, they would likely provide a large ground bonus anyway
--I believe the lack of damage to smaller players MS would be greater than any extra losses inflicted back on the bigger player.

Farming, occasionally some use their MS on farming, hoping for even a 20 or 40bil bonus, which can turn the tide, this would be removed as the MS is concentrated soley on fighting away the other MS at first.




TC