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Kit-Fox wrote:But Pops didnt you imply/say the EU was greater than that & was above such actions. Didnt say how wonderful and nice and kind the EU was.

Surely the EU wouldnt stoop to such actions even in the face of provocation.



Unless of course your admitting the EU is just as bad as everyone else

See you admit you took opportunity by alliances with countries and apparently now get "abused" by same EU you abused in past, only puts a massive smile in my face. You reap what you sow, doesn't it? Whether you indeed get "abused" by EU or not, given what you said, it would just be...what is it called already? Oh yeah. Justiiice!

I didn't imply it was the case, it's not me who keeps saying that Uk got abused. I've just stated that if it was the case, which I don't agree with fact it is the case, then it wouldn't be as bad as it seems to be considering what you said. IF UK was that much abused, then UK would have been punished from decision to side with US in Iraqi war. It's not like UK is a "minor" country with no voice in EU.

Legendary Apophis wrote:I didn't imply it was the case, it's not me who keeps saying that Uk got abused.

actually mate, it is you that keeps saying exactly that. in case it escaped your thinking process, the reason i have and keep stating that the UK has been dragged into the EU is not because of the EU. as i have stated on more than just a few occasions, its our leaders in the UK which have lied and dragged us into the EU. that alone is reason for us to be out because it goes against the British constitution, the magna carta, which has been Britain's constitution since the early 1200's.

the magna carta clearly and in no uncertain terms states to the affect of (states to the affect of because i cant remember the exact wording), the British parliament may do many things, but what it may not do is hand authority of the nation over to a foreign power UNLESS defeated in war...let that sink in for a minute and think about that...the British parliament may do many things, but what it may not do is hand authority of the nation over to a foreign power UNLESS defeated in war..as far as i am aware mate, we haven't been at war with the EU (unless i was sleeping and missed all the excitement?), and further more, the UK hasn't lost a single war for 400 years, and the last person to beat the UK (William of Orange) had some claim to the thrown of England!

so please stop saying that the big bad EU dragged us in and please stop implying that we are against the EU because of the wrongs being done to the UK, its not just the UK mate, the problem of the EU goes way beyond just the UK.

so please stop thinking like a child and debate as an adult...no that's not meant as an insult, it simply means, dont take me for a fool!


and just for the record...i dont care what we get out of the EU, we can be the biggest recipient of money from the EU, i would still hate it just as much, so this isn't about what we get and what we dont get out of it, so that rubbish can stop right now!

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the magna carta along with our bill of rights makes up the UK's constitution mate, are you saying that its worthless? surely not!

regardless of who the magna carta serves, it STILL states to the affect of "the Parliament may do many things....". i think that's pretty enfatic, dont you?

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the inclusion of "parliament" was made in the revised constitution in the mid 1600's i think. sorry i cant remember the dates because its been so long since i last looked at it.

anyways, the point is, while the UK may not have a single document named the "the constitution of the UK" like the US has (as you correctly pointed out), the magna carta and bill of rights amounts to a UK constitution in all but name....

my point still stands, does it not?


and btw, happy new year to you sir

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ok, this is perplexing beyond belief...i understand what your saying but, whats confusing me is that while it was some time ago i read those documents, and heard others (who know more than me talk about them) talk about them recently-they are still in affect to this very day

*goes off to investigate*

Taken from Wikipedia >>

Rights still in force today
For modern times, the most enduring legacy of Magna Carta is considered the right of habeas corpus. This right arises from what are now known as clauses 36, 38, 39, and 40 of the 1215 Magna Carta.

As the most recent version, it is the 1297 Charter which remains in legal force in England and Wales. Using the clauses in the 1297 charter (the content and numbering are somewhat different from the 1215 Charter): Clause 1 guarantees the freedom of the English Church. Although this originally meant freedom from the King, later in history it was used for different purposes (see below). Clause 9 guarantees the "ancient liberties" of the City of London. Clause 29 guarantees a right to due process.


Clause Repealing Act[6]
II Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
III Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
IV Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
V Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
VI Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
VII Administration of Estates Act 1925, Administration of Estates Act (Northern Ireland) 1955 and Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1969
VIII Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1969
X Statute Law Revision Act 1948
XI Civil Procedure Acts Repeal Act 1879
XII Civil Procedure Acts Repeal Act 1879
XIII Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XIV Criminal Law Act 1967 and Criminal Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1967
XV Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1969
XVI Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1969
XVII Statute Law Revision Act 1892
XVIII Crown Proceedings Act 1947
XIX Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XX Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXI Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXII Statute Law Revision Act 1948
XXIII Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1969
XXIV Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXV Statute Law Revision Act 1948
XXVI Offences against the Person Act 1828 and Offences Against the Person (Ireland) Act 1829
XXVII Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXVIII Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXX Statute Law (Repeals) Act 1969
XXXI Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXXII Statute Law Revision Act 1887
XXXIII Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXXIV Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXXV Sheriffs Act 1887
XXXVI Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872
XXXVII Statute Law Revision Act 1863 and Statute Law (Ireland) Revision Act 1872



still investigating because we all know about wikipedia.

from what i can tell, parliament...lets call them "TPTB" (the powers that be), have abandoned the magna carta and bill of rights in favour of the EU constitutions, laws, acts and statutes...HOWEVER...they had no right to do so as this goes against our "constitution" in the first place.

as you rightly point out, we have no single "constitution" or document called that as do the Americans. and ours is in 2 parts, but its close enough to it that we can call it a "constitution" so we can all be on the same page...

anyways, my original point still stands (IMO) because even though its been abandoned, parliament had no right to do so....

its like me taking your car (or whatever) and selling it, just because i did it and got away with it, doesn't make it legal.

Bill of Rights
An Act declareing the Rights and Liberties of the Subject and Setleing the Succession of the Crowne.

I doe declare That noe Forreigne Prince Person Prelate, State or Potentate hath or ought to have any Jurisdiction Power Superiority Preeminence or Authoritie Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall within this Realme Soe helpe me God.

Still in force today
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 80002_en_1

& http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 0002_enm_1
When a Man doth compass or imagine the Death of our Lord the King, or of our Lady his [X2Queen] or of their eldest Son and Heir; or if a Man do violate the King’s [X2Companion,] or the King’s eldest Daughter unmarried, or the Wife (X3) the King’s eldest Son and Heir; or if a Man do levy War against our Lord the King in his Realm, or be adherent to the King’s Enemies in his Realm, giving to them Aid and Comfort in the Realm, or elsewhere, and thereof be [X4probably] attainted of open Deed by [X5the People] of their Condition: . . . F1, and if a Man slea the Chancellor, Treasurer, or the King’s Justices of the one Bench or the other, Justices in Eyre, or Justices of Assise, and all other Justices assigned to hear and determine, being in their Places, doing their Offices: And it is to be understood, that in the Cases above rehearsed, [X6that] ought to be judged Treason which extends to our Lord the King, and his Royal Majesty:

Two statutes that make up part of our constitution - you can see i am indeed correct, the succession of the Crown is established, offence of treason is confirmed....


PHEW!


PS. sorry for all the multiple posts.

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hmmm...ok, i thought that the magan carta, bill of rights and the parliament act applied to one and all on the land known as the UK. indeed, i am listening to MP's and MEP's and they are saying that those make up our constitution and furthermore, they do indeed apply to ALL on the land, and that they are ( or should be) still in effect...

i'm going to find something concrete 1 way or the other, and if i am right will post the evidence, and if i find that you are correct will again post what i find so we can settle it, because i'm not interested and couldn't careless about who is right or wrong....i'm only interested in the truth and posting the correct info.

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