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Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:58 am
by Neimenljivi
I agree with the defense issue and the planets issue. You're making planets untakeable by:
a) decreasing cost of defending them (buying defenses)
b) adding more merlins (almost x2)
c) increasing the percentage one needs to be able to attack a planet
d) decreasing the amount of planets you can lose per day
If you're going down that road, why not make planets unconquerable at all? Remove the "Conquer planet" button
I too, like renegadze do expect being able to sell fleet hangars at the same price I bought them for..
~N
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:41 am
by Clarkey
GeneralChaos wrote:Need this clarified, or would you rather have 1000 emails later complaining,
Surveys
You can get it for yourself, or others (with their ID).
You need to remove this, this can be far to easy to exploit, all you have to do it get a random dead account, put there ID in do survey farm the NAQ, then times that by 1000 dead accounts, you get the idea,
Make it that Surveys can only benefit you, not someone else you can farm.
Also $$ sellers could really exploit it, use dead account, farm naq sell for $$.
Just reiterating my suggestion too.Clarkey wrote:Or instead of removing it, how about any naq or resources you gain from surveys goes straight in to your bank. That way if you do a survey for another account then it will go straight in their bank rather than the open.
Although what is concerning is what if multies set up loads of accounts and do surveys for one main account?
I'd recommend only doing surveys for yourself.
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:57 pm
by Am Heh
Neimenljivi wrote:I too, like renegadze do expect being able to sell fleet hangars at the same price I bought them for..
Fleets have other uses, you know helping to add to your strike when massing MS's. They still have a use, I do not see why admin would need to refund fleet cost.
Or how, about you repay all the defenses of planets that you massed with said fleets also. Since you want to profit from it. You should repay those that planet defenses were killed from the selling of the slots
About, the survey's. It should be non-transferable Naq and the for someone else, should be removed. Unless you want a bunch of multi's running around.
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:24 pm
by Sarevok
renegadze wrote:the 5% was based on an active account with good planets that would actually be worth stealing...where does your logic actually come from? off the back of a cereal box? Also with the cheaper planet defences I am guessing a LOT more people will now actually bother defending them
how many accounts in game do you think have 200k+ total fleets? with the updates the amount of flet you need will drastically go up.
A 2 tril planet def is currently massable, but not by many.....after the updates anything above that is going to get pretty hard to mass even for top fleets
Following Max's logic. Lets say only the top 1500 people play. And lets say on average they have 6 planets each. So that's 9000 planets. Your saying that there are 450 planets that can't be touched by fleets at the moment? So there's 45 accounts running around with 10 planets, all with over, i think it must be 1.1m defences each.
Also, have you seen Neimenljivi thread about planet massing? All an empire has to do, is pool resources into 1 account. 3Q for 1m fleet hangers, with 100 people, that's 30T each. Then you just need to ask them to mass a planet for you, and provide the fleet building power, repair naq, and AT to do it. With fleets like that, even with the update, you can STILL take up to 2.2m planet defences. Which is 6.6T defence
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:25 pm
by Robe
Jason... wrote:GeneralChaos wrote:This also will stop alliances planet stripping someones account during wars.
Just need that clarified.
No...Just means there shall now be planning in planet stripping...Like descending except its not so hurtful.
Yes GC this does remove planets from wars, which is a black day for the game.
Jason if making planets the same pace as ascended doesnt send up red flags I dont know what else would, especially since most players find the server to boring to play...
Leg Apophis wrote:I'm curious in the first place why admin wants to make planets THAT hard to be stolen...
All those mini updates weren't needed together, each alone isn't bad, but the addition of all makes it negative.
Some players complained after they lost valuable planets when they missed the end of a PPT or forgot to merlin.
Leg Apophis wrote:As for 3 planets per day, I think it should be 5 max at least, 3 as previously mentioned can be abused.
I agree that if you make a mistake then there should be consequences.
A fair compromise would be limiting your loss to 50% (only
possible to lose 5 planets within 24 hours - not 3 because they can be more easily retaken).
Neimenljivi wrote:I agree with the defense issue and the planets issue. You're making planets untakeable...
I too, like renegadze do expect being able to sell fleet hangars at the same price I bought them for..
When planets were first made more vulnerable with the introduction of MS Tech and Platforms (due to complaints about Blahhs planets being untakeable), players were given the option to sell planet defences for the first time. Since these updates will take us back to the future, the same courtesy should apply with the option to sell hangers in the first 30 days of these updates.
Am Heh wrote:Fleets have other uses, you know helping to add to your strike when massing MS's.
The purpose of fleets is to take planets not mass ships. No one in their right mind would build hangers for the sole purpose of massing ships. You cant mass ships online with fleets because you lose them and they are far more expensive than volleys to replace.
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:28 pm
by renegadze
Sarevok wrote:renegadze wrote:the 5% was based on an active account with good planets that would actually be worth stealing...where does your logic actually come from? off the back of a cereal box? Also with the cheaper planet defences I am guessing a LOT more people will now actually bother defending them
how many accounts in game do you think have 200k+ total fleets? with the updates the amount of flet you need will drastically go up.
A 2 tril planet def is currently massable, but not by many.....after the updates anything above that is going to get pretty hard to mass even for top fleets
Following Max's logic. Lets say only the top 1500 people play. And lets say on average they have 6 planets each. So that's 9000 planets. Your saying that there are 450 planets that can't be touched by fleets at the moment? So there's 45 accounts running around with 10 planets, all with over, i think it must be 1.1m defences each.
Also, have you seen Neimenljivi thread about planet massing? All an empire has to do, is pool resources into 1 account. 3Q for 1m fleet hangers, with 100 people, that's 30T each. Then you just need to ask them to mass a planet for you, and provide the fleet building power, repair naq, and AT to do it. With fleets like that, even with the update, you can STILL take up to 2.2m planet defences. Which is 6.6T defence
you seem to think an empire boosting 1 account is the answer to planet stealing....the game is meant to be made fair for all, if the only possible was any one person has of stealing a planet is to join an empire then there is a serious issue - it doesn't require empire backing to build a planets def!
as for the planets...I can spot atleast 200 (without any real effort) that only the top 2 fleet can take right now - the problem isn't neceesarily right now...it will be after the update, when defs are cheaper and you require more fleet to mass the same defences
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:26 pm
by BenjaminMS
I notice no difference yet... when will the update go live?
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:27 pm
by Juliette
BenjaminMS wrote:I notice no difference yet... when will the update go live?
You didn't just ask that.
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:00 am
by Rottenking
Juliette wrote:BenjaminMS wrote:I notice no difference yet... when will the update go live?
You didn't just ask that.
i think he did
hopefully he will read the main page next time he logs in
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:33 am
by BenjaminMS
'I think I saw a stupid question. I did, I did!'
Looked at the wrong week at the calender
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:39 am
by Neimenljivi
Yes Sarevok - empires with 100 people could afford that, let's not forget about it being a great risk and that empires with 100 people don't have all players big enough to be able to afford it.
Empires with 100 people..hmm that's like..2 empires in the game? So 2 people will have fleets big enough to take out any defense on planet but what about others huh? 2 empires allied to each other, 2 players having fleets big enough, what about the rest of the game? We might as well just remove the Conquer Planet button for everyone except two players and remove all planet defenses as well - it'll have the same effect.
Let's also not forget that planets can easily be merlined - with increased merlin count per MT one could have 2 planets merlined forever, oh and also about the limit in case s/he forgets to merlin planets - it's possible you won't be able to take them all due to stupid limit.
Am Heh - noone masses a MS with fleets only. It's the stupidest thing one can do.
About the defenses destroyed - I too used a lot of resources to mass them down.
Like Robe said - the last time update came to balance the issue of fleets & planet defenses people were given the option to sell their planetary defenses. I don't remember that the people who lost fleets trying to conquer said planets were given the naq back, so why should it be any different now?
~N
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:42 am
by Am Heh
Robe wrote:The purpose of fleets is to take planets not mass ships. No one in their right mind would build hangers for the sole purpose of massing ships. You cant mass ships online with fleets because you lose them and they are far more expensive than volleys to replace.
I think you need to ask some people, if they use fleets against MS's when the person is not online. I know TTF used, this tactic a lot to get a higher strike.
And I know someone in TAF is currently using it in their war.
Either way.
Planets were sellable yes. But you could lose the planet defense. You can not lose the fleet slots.
Why dont we expand your train of thought here. Since you want to be able to sell fleets. Why not sell planet attributes also. To give the people that brought mass planets back their naq also.
Lets also make it so people can resell Raw UP. I mean screw it, people benefit from upgrading their account so they could take planets, get UU, get stats. But lets just let them all get all their naq back. Hell let people even sell covert levels back. Why not stop there. Make everything in the game sellable.
And about planet defense. You got a fraction back, not the full price. Keep that in mind.
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:49 am
by Neimenljivi
Am Heh wrote:Robe wrote:The purpose of fleets is to take planets not mass ships. No one in their right mind would build hangers for the sole purpose of massing ships. You cant mass ships online with fleets because you lose them and they are far more expensive than volleys to replace.
I think you need to ask some people, if they use fleets against MS's when the person is not online. I know TTF used, this tactic a lot to get a higher strike.
And I know someone in TAF is currently using it in their war.
Either way.
Planets were sellable yes. But you could lose the planet defense. You can not lose the fleet slots.
Why dont we expand your train of thought here. Since you want to be able to sell fleets. Why not sell planet attributes also. To give the people that brought mass planets back their naq also.
Difference being that hangars have no use if they're empty. Planet defense has no use if the attributes are low. If attributes are high then planet defenses have use, therefor one makes the use of hangars and arms them with fleets which have use now.
Sure you can use fleets in battles. Like you
always use planets in battles. Tell me one player who uses
fleets only (or say 50% of fleets and other 50% being MS shields) in massing MS?
That's right, you can't. But there's a big number of players that use
planets only (or 50% from each planet and a relatively small ground strike) in massing people's defenses. (the two in brackets are due to new update limiting planet attributes a bit)
~N
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:59 am
by Am Heh
Neimenljivi wrote:Difference being that hangars have no use if they're empty. Planet defense has no use if the attributes are low. If attributes are high then planet defenses have use, therefor one makes the use of hangars and arms them with fleets which have use now.
Sure you can use fleets in battles. Like you always use planets in battles. Tell me one player who uses fleets only (or say 50% of fleets and other 50% being MS shields) in massing MS? That's right, you can't. But there's a big number of players that use planets only (or 50% from each planet and a relatively small ground strike) in massing people's defenses. (the two in brackets are due to new update limiting planet attributes a bit)
~N
You knew that when you brought them.
Once again, you knew that when you brought them.
I do not see how this update makes any difference.
I do not see people with attack planets crying about the percentage difference with massing defenses. You know why, because they are still better then people that have no attack planets. And your better then people that do not have as much fleets.
You invested in your fleets, so you have them for the rest of your account life. They do not get destroyed. Maybe you should of thought a bit better, before you invested or brought an account with so many fleets
Re: June 29th Updates (big / many...)
Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:04 am
by Neimenljivi
Am Heh wrote:Neimenljivi wrote:Difference being that hangars have no use if they're empty. Planet defense has no use if the attributes are low. If attributes are high then planet defenses have use, therefor one makes the use of hangars and arms them with fleets which have use now.
Sure you can use fleets in battles. Like you always use planets in battles. Tell me one player who uses fleets only (or say 50% of fleets and other 50% being MS shields) in massing MS? That's right, you can't. But there's a big number of players that use planets only (or 50% from each planet and a relatively small ground strike) in massing people's defenses. (the two in brackets are due to new update limiting planet attributes a bit)
~N
You knew that when you brought them.
Once again, you knew that when you brought them.
I do not see how this update makes any difference.
I do not see people with attack planets crying about the percentage difference with massing defenses. You know why, because they are still better then people that have no attack planets. And your better then people that do not have as much fleets.
You invested in your fleets, so you have them for the rest of your account life. They do not get destroyed. Maybe you should of thought a bit better, before you invested or brought an account with so many fleets
The investment was there so I could mass planets. Not that I couldn't mass a planet someone has that only 50T or smth like that was invested to be defended and it is unmassable after the updates
That's a big difference. It's the same as when people invested in their planetary defenses and with new updates to
balance fleet vs planetary defenses their defenses weren't unmassable anymore so they didn't serve such big purpose anymore to them, so they were given the option to sell them instead.
Lets also not forget that when fleets were brought in you could lose hangars
~N