world government - it's worth a shot

[[KMA]Avenger]

Sigh, i am flabbergasted that people cannot see how dangerous and outright evil the concepts of globalism and standardisation are!

do you even understand what institutions such as these "unions" are? if not let me spell it out, they are about standardising, how can you standardise nations into 1 institution? its impossible, it cannot by its very definition work UNLESS it is tyrannical and authoritarian.

lets look at the results of standardising and globalism, its completely destroyed certain sectors of our economy and totally decimated our industrial base, with an industrial base you can whether almost any economic downturn, without an industrial base you are asking for trouble and trouble is EXACTLY what we are facing today.

the EU is by its very nature is evil and i feel sorry for you that cant see that...especially when you take into account what's happened in your own country.

[Lord Yojimbo]

Sigh, i am flabbergasted that people cannot see how dangerous and outright evil the concepts of globalism and standardisation are!

do you even understand what institutions such as these "unions" are? if not let me spell it out, they are about standardising, how can you standardise nations into 1 institution? its impossible, it cannot by its very definition work UNLESS it is tyrannical and authoritarian.

lets look at the results of standardising and globalism, its completely destroyed certain sectors of our economy and totally decimated our industrial base, with an industrial base you can whether almost any economic downturn, without an industrial base you are asking for trouble and trouble is EXACTLY what we are facing today.

the EU is by its very nature is evil and i feel sorry for you that cant see that...especially when you take into account what's happened in your own country.

Utter rubbish...I suppose you would have being alot happier if man had never progressed beyond the original tribes that migrated from the cradle of the earth (middle-east and certain parts of africa). Standardisation is not about standardising cultures mate.

Standardising:
- Common Policys that Nations can work and develope together
- Monatary Union...speaks for itself

The EU is not evil nor is it perfect but there is one standard system which does need to cvhange globally - it is that of the stock marketeering and bond speculation - those allowed the banks to overlend with borrowed cash and the ordinary person followed suit....that is where our economic system failed - the area the EU failed was the fact that having 1 central bank running 16 economies means that it will limit a countries options to print money (which is a good thing) so the monatary union setup needs to be re examined and they should have regulated the banks and skock/bond markets to a far higher joint standard

Look at it....the US got economic policy wrong (should the US be disbanded into individual states as well???). The EU dcidnt do great either but is this not just all symptomatic of the actual international economic system itself being based on unsustainable principles?

I used to work in a universally standardised industry by the way...pharma. our standards are the same across europe and the FDA work with the EMEA for harmonised standards. This garentees that the pills you swallow in the morning are safe to use. So dont critise harmonisation - you already embrace it every time you buy an aspirin

The world is now connected on a global scale - the EU is rife with problems but the idea itself and some apspects of it are efficient and sound...we just need to sort out the problems...this is the experiment that the EU is. To see if all these nations can work together because it is concieveable that between us all with all our combined resources and ideas we might actually achieve something greater than what we as individuals could ever hope for...Take the good with the bad.

and remember: So dont critise harmonisation - you already embrace it every time you buy an aspirin

[Lord Yojimbo]

Addon:

Globalisation is here to stay and it will benefit us all but global governance is a long way off and indeed it could be a concern if the institutions for such a world order are not transparent...power in such concentrations is dangerous but if it is done right with the correct checks and balances...it is concieveable that it might well work but we will have to overcome the problems we have though first.

- Hunger
- An Unsound international economic system
- Pollution and Climate Change

Maybe just maybe when we have solvbed all this - then we could have advanced far enough to actually take that giant step and without the fear of a power grab

[Ra]

Its coming for sure.. Halo hath foretold it!

[Lord Yojimbo]

[[KMA]Avenger]

Sigh, i am flabbergasted that people cannot see how dangerous and outright evil the concepts of globalism and standardisation are!

do you even understand what institutions such as these "unions" are? if not let me spell it out, they are about standardising, how can you standardise nations into 1 institution? its impossible, it cannot by its very definition work UNLESS it is tyrannical and authoritarian.

lets look at the results of standardising and globalism, its completely destroyed certain sectors of our economy and totally decimated our industrial base, with an industrial base you can whether almost any economic downturn, without an industrial base you are asking for trouble and trouble is EXACTLY what we are facing today.

the EU is by its very nature is evil and i feel sorry for you that cant see that...especially when you take into account what's happened in your own country.

Utter rubbish...I suppose you would have being alot happier if man had never progressed beyond the original tribes that migrated from the cradle of the earth (middle-east and certain parts of africa). Standardisation is not about standardising cultures mate.

Standardising:
- Common Policys that Nations can work and develope together
- Monatary Union...speaks for itself

The EU is not evil nor is it perfect but there is one standard system which does need to cvhange globally - it is that of the stock marketeering and bond speculation - those allowed the banks to overlend with borrowed cash and the ordinary person followed suit....that is where our economic system failed - the area the EU failed was the fact that having 1 central bank running 16 economies means that it will limit a countries options to print money (which is a good thing) so the monatary union setup needs to be re examined and they should have regulated the banks and skock/bond markets to a far higher joint standard

Look at it....the US got economic policy wrong (should the US be disbanded into individual states as well???). The EU dcidnt do great either but is this not just all symptomatic of the actual international economic system itself being based on unsustainable principles?

I used to work in a universally standardised industry by the way...pharma. our standards are the same across europe and the FDA work with the EMEA for harmonised standards. This guarantees that the pills you swallow in the morning are safe to use. So dont criticise harmonisation - you already embrace it every time you buy an aspirin

The world is now connected on a global scale - the EU is rife with problems but the idea itself and some aspects of it are efficient and sound...we just need to sort out the problems...this is the experiment that the EU is. To see if all these nations can work together because it is conceivable that between us all with all our combined resources and ideas we might actually achieve something greater than what we as individuals could ever hope for...Take the good with the bad.

and remember: So don't criticise harmonisation - you already embrace it every time you buy an aspirin

standardising something with regards to industry, or having a global standard for say technology is NOT what we are talking about and you should know that

we are talking about taking VASTLY different cultures and people and FORCING them to adopt a standard of living and way of life...you think that's a good thing?

look at what the EU specialises in, it specialises in turning member states into blocks and specialising in a certain field of industry, IE, the UK is the financial sector taking away from the UK its many industry's and fisheries, another block specialises in farming, another block specialises in heavy industry and so on and so forth, it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with "working together", or as others have said to "avoid war and promote cooperation", hell, why not just turn us into all Borg?!?!

i'm not a xenophobe or an isolationist, i am a humanist and freedom lover, organisations such as the EU are anti-human and anti-freedom, but unlike Fascist Germany of the 40's whose tactic was the point of a gun, the EU's tactic is treaty's, agreements and contracts tying people and whole nations into agreements which are detrimental to individual nations, and unless your head really is buried in the ground so deep you cant see it, look at what's happened to Ireland since your nation was bullied into joining up, look at what's happened to Greece, Spain, Portugal and others.

experiment?! its no "experiment", the EU is doing EXACTLY what the EU is meant to be doing, Hitler tried an "experiment", it failed because it was so open and blatant people saw it for what it was, but because the EU is a bureaucracy and its weapon of choice is the pen...well, what harm can there be in a pen especially when that pen is about praying on the peoples want/need to "get along"?!

Addon:

Globalisation is here to stay and it will benefit us all but global governance is a long way off and indeed it could be a concern if the institutions for such a world order are not transparent...power in such concentrations is dangerous but if it is done right with the correct checks and balances...it is conceivable that it might well work but we will have to overcome the problems we have though first.

understand that the EU is anti-democratic because the people have no say or right to say in who gets elected and that the policy makers-the bureaucrats who make up the EU's policy's-work BEHIND the scenes and not a single one of them is elected! that by very definition is a totalitarian regime and evil, you think they will tolerate "checks and balances" or that any kind of oversight would be effective? please don't try and preach that crap to me because i'm older than you and i have seen first hand what effect the UK's signing of these treaties with the EU has done to the UK.

- Hunger
- An Unsound international economic system
- Pollution and Climate Change

Maybe just maybe when we have solved all this - then we could have advanced far enough to actually take that giant step and without the fear of a power grab

^LMAO, don't hold your breath. and as for hunger, we throw away so much food its incomprehensible, if we wanted to we could not only feed the starving but with regards to the 3rd world could develop them and help them become self-sufficient....

but instead of helping other nations, lets give them bailouts and take away their resources as part of the bailout and then impose loan sharking rates on them so they are never able to lift themselves up, then lets put meters on their houses and jack up the prices for everything to the point they cant even afford to have water while company's like Coca-Cola can come in and tap the underground reservoirs of clean water and drain them dry, and then dump toxic chemicals they use to clean the bottles with back into the local environment....yeah, that's a good plan!





climate change? what climate change are you talking about?

[Brdavs]

Jesus some of you are ripe for a mental institution, you really are.

Economic and political systems arent intertwined for one. Optimum combination so far has turned out to be a liberal democracy. They both have their flaws but they work. We could opt for a more communist economy in a democratic setting (as marx predicted) if we dont like debt, the importance of capital and currency value/trade and that sort of thing lol.


The thing is some of us are living in reality, look at this flawed world and at the ways it is better and could be improved.
While some of you are completely out of touch with reality, complete with tin foil hat & all.

How would you have the world work eh? Get proactive for a change isntead of the same "the big gvmt is trying to xtrminate uz!"... How would you have it? Every man is a king of his house domain, selfsufficient and with a shot gun to fend off people infringing on his selfsufficiency? What the heck would you eat? How the heck would you sirvive the winter? etc. etc.

Division of labour and specialization in tasks for which induviduals/regions of the planet are best suited for (and nations living there) is a logical and natural taking of advantage of a competative edge. Its what enabled us to create a civilization. A farmer in Egypt specialized, produced enough food to feed 2 people and the fecker that then had time to do other things but to worry what he`ll eat that day went on to figure out writing. And so on to this friggin day. Is it a utopia for everyone involved all the time? No. But again, how would you tackle the world order of things?


I mean seriously, what do you propose humanity does as a civilization/species? Goes back to family unisons, wearing skins of the animals that pater familias manages to down?
Least some people are trying to promote peacefull unity and prosperity for all. What do you contribute? Inconsistent delusions. I say inconsistent because you as an englishman(I presume) and even a briton live and coexist just fine, despite your neigborhood/burrow/town/metropolian area/regon/whatever "affiliation" you posses... yet you see only extermination in one step further down the road you`re already well travelled.
You, induvidual of a very specific environment and background can function perfectly in a state sized environement, yet going one step furter is a conspiracy that will kill you. Its. The. Same. Goddam. Principle.
ZERO difference between being fine with the fact youre a Manc or a nation state or the fact that youre fine with being european or at the end of the road a friggin human being. Why couldnt a spaniard and an idian percieve eachother same as a guy from london and a guy from leeds do? They retain their identity and all but arent warring eachother over bs like that. Peacefull coexistance thorugh unification of interests and compromise that is best for all involved that way. Not "freedom" to be top dog with a bigger stick. Hows that an evil thing? *facedesk*

You`re completely friggin irrational.

[[KMA]Avenger]

you either get it or you don't, and you my friend don't get it.

in the present state where we have central banks dictating and consuming all of us with a debt based monetary system there is absolutely no way you will have ANY institution which is not corrupt to the very core, that is fact you can read about in ANY newspaper.

you seem to think i am for going back to the stone age where man had a cave and a club and was a hunter gatherer and to hell with everyone else...THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID...is it???
show me where i said we should go back to a tribal system and i will humbly swallow my pride and declare you the victor of this argument.

i am talking about corruption and corrupt institutions and organisations such as the EU (which is kind of a mini-NWO in its own right), which are corrupt to the very core and if you give an institution the right to appoint members to the bureaucracy (which is NOT answerable to the people or ANYONE else for its actions) and the high office of president WITHOUT either the consent of the governed or the people the right to vote those very same out of office if they fail to perform guess what you get? if you cant figure it out why don't you go ask the Russians and the Chinese....you want to give that kind of power to a group and then you want to tell them you trust them to the point you don't want the ability to vote them out of office because of your blind faith?! ARE **Filtered** SERIOUS???

the real danger is not a bunch of bureaucrats on a power trip, the real danger is ignorant people (like you) who hand over their rights (and everybody else's as well) in blind faith because they cannot fathom anyone in Govt being that corrupt....whose the naive one here?!

this is what type of Govt and institution i support, a republic governed by a constitution, just like the US USED to have...and before you say that doesn't work you need to read this and learn your history.

Ben Franklin was asked by a woman "What type of government do we have?" as he left the ratification of the Constitution. His reply was "A Republic Ma'am ... if you can keep it!"

[Kit-Fox]

Removed

[Lord Yojimbo]

the EU council of ministers are voted in as well as the MEP's however i would like to see us citizens have more direct say in the running of the EU with elections of commisioners and the commisions president...it is too beaurocratic indeed but if it was reformed then it could work....

The EU is an experiemnt - where else did you see this being done politically (hitler forced his doctrine with sabre rattling and war mongering while the EU has no set doctrine on beliefs and cultural differences and each nation ratified the treaties)

We are not blind to your view - we just disagree and I dont like your insults on the matter in terms of saying that we cant comprehend what we are talking about. One of the luxuries as an irish man is that we get to vote on every treaty that the EU seeks to ratify. Each nation has an opt out facility in terms of policies like foreagn or the EU rapid reaction force or whether or not to join the euro...so dont suggest that a nations soverign right is denied because each nation decides how far to get involved with the EU....

The Uk has opted out of several EU initiatives and so has ireland...we have that right while also wanting to be a part of a combined enitity so local governanace isnt dead and it wont ever be but we have to realise the fact that inter govermental relations will become an institution in its self in tame as nations look to co-operate and develope mutual points of interest

as for stardised blocks of industry....ill take my own country again. Ireland came out of a massive recession in the early ninties...we decided to invest in kinowledge via free tuitition and schooling and we developed a high tech economy around our own policies - this is what we wanted for ourselves as a soverign nation and all the EU did was help and they funded us as well...so the bloks of standardised economic policy determined by europe is rubbish...we have set our own stragety while also joining or opting out of certain inititaives in each policy area

Each nation has the choice to go as far as it wants within the EU - But I am glad that the Irish consitiution has the atricle forcing the parliment to refer every EU treaty to the people...we need more of this from each nation as well...

We will find the balance in time between inter governance and local governance

(this is my OPINION - I have every right to voice it and it is based on knowledge gained over my years so dont discount the knowledge i gained and I wont be so quick to shoot down your opinion for it either)

[[KMA]Avenger]

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."

Romans 13 KJV.


especially for you lovers of freedom-destroying institutions, and brainwashed opinions regurgitated from TPTB via talking heads on the boxes in the corner of your front rooms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agexr88YHFE


Happy new year BTW

[Lord Yojimbo]

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."

Romans 13 KJV.


especially for you lovers of freedom-destroying institutions, and brainwashed opinions regurgitated from TPTB via talking heads on the boxes in the corner of your front rooms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agexr88YHFE


Happy new year BTW

You cant debate any topic without being insulting mate can you??? That quotation is open to intrepretation as well

Im finished here - I am only met with an insulting attitude from you Avenger every time I post - so go and hump off

Happy New Year to everyone else

[[KMA]Avenger]

I wasn't trying to be insulting but as i have said...i am older than you and i have seen first hand EU regs that have devastated whole industries, EU regs with regards to minimum wages which have resulted in the opposite of what the public was told they were intended for.

You say you see my side of the argument but you have failed to challenge me on any of the points i have raised and instead have spouted propaganda as if you was reading from a script...just like the politicians and the talking heads.

edit, watch this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs

and this!

http://dotsub.com/view/298083ee-ac70-42 ... 5ae163047a

and this!

http://dotsub.com/view/49858fff-7cda-46 ... ad1905c028

[Lord Yojimbo]

I wasn't trying to be insulting but as i have said...i am older than you and i have seen first hand EU regs that have devastated whole industries, EU regs with regards to minimum wages which have resulted in the opposite of what the public was told they were intended for.

You say you see my side of the argument but you have failed to challenge me on any of the points i have raised and instead have spouted propaganda as if you was reading from a script...just like the politicians and the talking heads.

edit, watch this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs

and this!

http://dotsub.com/view/298083ee-ac70-42 ... 5ae163047a

and this!

http://dotsub.com/view/49858fff-7cda-46 ... ad1905c028

Re-read the posts if you must

[[KMA]Avenger]

watch the films..that's what you call a "must".

at least watch the first film which is only 3 mins and 11 secs long. at 2 minutes in hear what Mr Farage says to the parliament with regards to Ireland.