StarGateWars Forums

Posted: **Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:38 pm**

lol balor, i agree with you but i just gotta give u some appluse lol you did so much in that post...

Posted: **Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:23 pm**

RepliJake wrote:That's allot of what this was about and the reason the "Respect Movement's" name was brought up in the first place, (leading by example) allot of them were making silly complaints and claiming personal insults.

2 or 3 people are not a lot. The group have many, many more members. Do not paint the group with the same brush you afford a few people.

geisha wrote:
Spacey wrote:self removed

Yes and you could have asked me in a PM Besides I never delete things I move them. And I also pmed you with a reason.

Now I do have the feeling this thread is getting derailed again.

This isn't about you and me geisha. You do delete. You can't say never (ie. market).

RepliJake wrote:..by all means continue with the public stoning of your colleague instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Me stoning her? What was happening to members of the respect group in the numerous thread created about them and the colour name? You mention that 'a lot of the respect members were making silly complaints'. Can you see the mod logs and see how many posts were reported by respect members and what they were? I have, and aside from the reports that brought on all this (2 or 3 reports from 1-2 people), the respect members report things like duplicate topics, swearing, and other such things. I would argue that you are stoning them and claiming that they are doing things that they have never done. Members have only made a little over ~18% of the total reports (~82% or the reports are from people not in the respect group)...including what this is stemming from. How can you say that a lot of them are doing what you say?

You are levelling a claim to the respect group that is very limited in it's backing/evidence. A general statement has been made against the respect group when it is not true. You may think 'half of the people [there] create the problems', and share that opinion under an alias, but that doesn't mean it's true.

It's too bad you can't see the mod forum, and (1) what is being suggested of me now and (2) what was being said about the group (in the thread this is stemming from).

-------

Remember people, not all the information you see here gives an entire account. Many things were removed. Keep an open mind and look at the issues critically. No one can prevent you from thinking about things with 20/20 vision, no matter how many threads are removed from the public eye, or what happens or is said behind closed doors.

this post will probably disappear, and some others I posted have, so just think about things people. Look at what you see and what it really means.

Posted: **Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:50 pm**

@replijake

if people are complaining te mod choses the punishment if there shuld be one, w/o the respect movement the mod STILL choses the punishment if there is one...

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:33 am**

geisha wrote: Besides I never delete things I move them.

May I ask where the other thread is then? Id also like to see if you allowed my post there to continue to exist. You should work for the FBI or something what with all these cover ups and all. :lol:

I once had a guy make a thread saying I abused power, I let the thread live, and you know what? It resulted in only 1 person in the thread being against me, him. You seem to have failed at getting anyone but Jake and ikon on your side.

You have to think that when so many people have a problem with something, perhaps it is the thing they have the problem with that is in the wrong, not the people.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:43 am**

Vendetta wrote:
geisha wrote: Besides I never delete things I move them.

May I ask where the other thread is then?

just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it has been deleted

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:55 am**

Spacey wrote:
geisha wrote:
Spacey wrote:self removed

Yes and you could have asked me in a PM Besides I never delete things I move them. And I also pmed you with a reason.

Now I do have the feeling this thread is getting derailed again.

This isn't about you and me geisha. You do delete. You can't say never (ie. market).

True this should not be about you and me at all. This should not be anything more than a general discussion about the meaning and use of respect on the forums. But if you don't stop questioning my actions as a moderator in public, I'm afraid this will will become about you and me.

Spacey wrote:this post will probably disappear, and some others I posted have, so just think about things people. Look at what you see and what it really means.

One of your posts has disappeared and an explanation why has been sent via PM. The content of your post and the reasons for its removal are clearly not a matter that should be discussed in public and I am sure you understand why (we once had some guidelines as moderators). I would like to ask you to keep disagreements we have as moderators to the mod section and private messages. Not only is this the wrong place to discuss such things, it is also derailing this topic and taking this on a level between you and me while you claimed yourself this is not about you and me.

Thank you.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:56 am**

Balor wrote:
geisha wrote:Ok, so I started a thread putting up a thesis based on my own observations. I generally stated that many people on the forums seem to have their difficulties in seeing the difference between attacking someone’s personality and making sarcastic remarks about ingame happenings. I further claimed that the meaning of respect is often misinterpreted on the forums.

Who are you to decide how people should take things. It seems people have difficulty in understanding that people do take offense and when they asked you to stop, you stop. You don't publicly denounce them and call them over-sensative and go back to insulting with 'justification'. Let's see... who am I? A player of this game who fails to see how things like calling an alliance "Pretenders of Evil" instead of "Foundation of Evil" (just an example) could offend anyone personally. I am not telling people how to take things, I am only putting up the question if things like that can actually be classed as a personal insult.

geisha wrote:I said that I don’t think this is a good thing for the community as it is killing the fun and the role playing (or what ever was left of it).

Insulting and satirical nonsense is not the only way to enjoy one's self on forums. If it is the only valid way for you to have fun, then you need to rethink your position. I can perfectly have fun without insulting people personally. In fact I don't think insults are fun at all and I don't think I have personally insulted anyone. But I guess this is where we have different definitions of "personal insulting" which is what this whole discussion is about.

I along with most of the community can have fun without resorting to petty insults and then trying to justify them, either through threads such as these, or misuse of moderating powers. If you have the feeling moderating powers are being misused, please feel free to contact a forum administrator about it.

geisha wrote:I did not direct it at anyone personally.
My post was very respectful.
I made clear in the very first sentence of my post that I am not encouraging disrespectful behaviour at all.

You advocated the posting of satircal pictures and the public denounciation of people who take offense and react. Saying that they must obviously have failed to grasp the difference between ingame and real life and need to be re-educated. Which was a veiled way of saying, if you don't like my humour, tough. You don't have a life and i'm fully justified in insulting you. Not exactly. What I was trying to say there was: don't let people misuse the term respect as a weapon to kill roleplaying on the forums.

geisha wrote:I must say I was shocked to see where the thread was going in 13 pages of posts. People started pointing fingers, personal insults were thrown around, almost everybody was flaming each other…

Shocked? You were laughing the whole way through in your postings.
I guess I was laughing yes. Ever been in a situation where you can only laugh because you can't believe what you're seeing? Oh and who are you to say if I was shocked or not?

You admitted the entire post was bait to get people under the 'respect' group to react and were quite happy and proud with the chaos the thread had caused. Don't you try take the moral high ground here. You baited and now you're pleading innocence.

No, I said the part about starting a "counter respect-movement movement" was a provocation in order to draw attention to the issue I was putting up for discussion.

geisha wrote:This was certainly not what I intended with my post but it does make one thing clear: the issue I described in my post does exist. People have been showing once again, that they are reacting overly sensitive and are confusing personal things with game related things.

As above. But you fail to see the issue. People do take offense and instead of acknowledging that and realising that you have been insulting towards them, continue to try find justification for such behaviour.
Perhaps I am lacking the understanding to see how exactly jokes about PPT, alliance names and so on can be taken as a personal insult as those things have imho really nothing to do with someones personality or real life.

The Crux of your argument:

Oh i insulted a person and he took offense. Obviously he is over-sensative and wrong and he is the person who has the issue. This is because i found my statement funny and the forums don't aren't fun unless people are insulting each other

Again, I don't think I have been insulting anyone.

geisha wrote:I have moved that thread away because there is no point in giving people a platform to tear each other in pieces in the name of respect.

Then why were the war threads which a lot of this insulting was brought up not moved completely from the public eye sight? Because I do not see the insulting you claim there? But you are free to contact another moderator about those threads if you think something needs to be done about them.

Maybe its because they didn't have informed posts which reveal your shortcommings and that the second you are on the end of the stick, use your moderating powers to make the problem go away. The thread should have been locked if spamming had occuring, so that people could have read it. You didn't move. You covered up. The thread was started with the intention of discussing a question. It ended in flaming. I have moved it out of sight, so people would not use it just to quote it to be able to continue the flaming. As I stated in the first post of this thread, I really do not wish to give people a platform to kill each other in the name of respect.

geisha wrote:It is quite disappointing to see such a reaction to a thread that started out respectfully with the sole purpose of discussing the use and misuse of the term respect.

Sad, really.

So your respect i.e advocating people to insult is more valid than the respect group's respect, which is promoting positive postings through example. Who is the person mis-using the term respect here? At no point have I been advocating people to insult anyone. Au contraire! I even started the post with saying that I do not encourage personal insults at all.

geisha wrote:Oh and this thread’s purpose is to offer a second chance to have a discussion about the above described issue. If it goes the same way as the old thread, then it will also find the same ending.

The old, "If this thread doesn't go my way, it goes to the highway."

No, this is not about having it my way. Everybody is entitled to state their opinion on this matter whether it differs from mine or not. I only said if the thread gets derailed and turns into nothing but flaming again, it will go.

replies in yellow

But now, let's try and find a solution. Am I banned from making jokes about people being on PPT, alliance names etc. because people might be deeply hurt and personally offended by it?

Is there a way to make clear I am not referring to their personality?

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:18 am**

Spacey, to you lead by example in the mod forums aswell as the public forums?

One would hope that you would.

As for the "stoning" you kindly removed alot of you posts

Anyway, clearly lots of people think as long as someone claims something is offencive then it is, so I'll just go along with that and complain everytime I am "personally insulted" either directly or through comments about my alliance, tends to be allot given that I'm in Omega, but if that's the trend we're setting (respect group INCLUDED) then so be it.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 2:18 am**

Hmm, I tried to avoid this topic a lot, since it's very touchy subject, but okay, here goes my little to the can of this mess:

What is respect? I personally think these topics are making an elephant from a mouse. Yes, I agree, respect group is in no way perfect. But please show me someone, anyone in this community who is. As long as you are not able to show me single person; please don't throw a rocks, else the rocks may fall on your head next time. It's quite simple. Judge and be judget. This is how it goes. And that is also where the finger-pointing started.

Most people in respect group want to show their alleginace to respectful manners on forums, no matter if they are involved in wars with few people or not. Should they have their own colour or not, that is not up to me to decide; however my personal opinion is that the new forum allows group colours so why to not use it. Live all features this forum offers, with reason, of course.

As for Geisha's last question:

But now, let's try and find a solution. Am I banned from making jokes about people being on PPT, alliance names etc. because people might be deeply hurt and personally offended by it?

Is there a way to make clear I am not referring to their personality?

Well, I agree... this can be sometimes really overrated. This game is about fun, and as long as people don't call themselves nasty names and get nasty to each other, it should be fine. These forums need a LOT of lightening up. Some people take stuff way too seriously. For crying out loud, if someone laughs at you for being on PPT, mass them ingame, message them with 'booo and nice day to you', indicate some crazy smily and move on! Not perfect solution, but it's far better than barking at each other yada bla bla...

For respect group users:

It's game, people. Treat it as such. To be able to be respectful should be nothing special or mentioned specifically word 'respect' in every post you make. If you want to be respectful -- just be. Talking about respect however does not make you respectful towards others. You have to live that word, not to mention it everytime you see opportunity.

For "Anti-Respect movement" people:

Give the respect group chance. They got the colour and that is probably why this mess was created. I personally am all for removing the colour if no other group is allowed to have one, as I do believe I don't need to have coloured name to indicate I am doing my best to live by respect towards others.

Respect is not just word. It's meant to behave in certain way. Those who have at least little grasp of respect know how to behave...

Teal'auc

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:00 am**

RepliJake wrote:
goodie wrote:
geisha wrote:
goodie wrote:
geisha wrote:people were tearing each other apart, everybody was flaming and it was not leading anywhere. So, no the thread is not coming back.

I do beleive we were having a nice discussion, because you (and a few others) where on the receiving end doest mean we where tearing each other apart.

Well on the first page of said thread people already started throwing personal insults. I'd call that flaming. Only a few people actually bothered reading the topic and discussing it. I am sorry for those people that some others had to ruin it. But hey, feel encouraged to have a proper discussion now without the flaming.

No. We have had said discussion. It was civilised. In didnt have flaming. The differences? You, Replijake and a few others werent there.

I shall allow you to draw your own conclusions.

-Goodie

You only consider it civilized discussions if it is with people that agree with you?

No, that would be stupid and imature. I consider it civilised when no one bans someone else almost on sight and says they deserved it (when they obviosly dont), oh, and giving respect is rather nice to.

-Goodie

And to continue my post now.

To quote a popular movie, "The people shouldnt be afraid of the goverment, the goverment should be afraid of the people".

I would leave it to opinion for how that applies, but as i cant as some peoplu may mis inteperate it.

"The users shouldnt be afraid of the mods, the mods should be afraid of the users".

And its not every one, but a decent portion cant post without fear of being beaten down verbally.

-Goodie

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:18 am**

wow. I have to say, after reading all of that I've concluded that this is nothing more than a witch hunt; we have a party of people preaching the values of respect and demanding it without fully understanding it, and we have moderatorsusiig the issue as a way to publicly berate someone who, unlike the chief operators, has been out of diapers for a good few years now and is no longer living in her mother's basement. I am apalled by the way she's been treated; ironically, no respect or regard whatsoever, and the fact that it comes from the hypocrites who founded the "respect" grouped, makes me very angry indeed.

I have to conclude that the only possible reason I can fathom is that the lives of the head forum admin,is so meagre and meaningless, that they feel the need to exert any sense of power they have, or perceive they have, over people who will always be much greater people; if only for the fact that they try to educate the members of the forum in a way that isn't quite so mundane, and possibly above their intellectual par.

I give you all this warning, and it is probably a warning that will get me banned again, so I bid each and every one of you goodbye just in case; for the treatment I've seen Jake and Geisha be given by spacey, psi and pookie - don't ever let me meet you. it will not be violent, but I will give the greatest insult a person can give to another human without ever having met them first; I will spit at your feet and turn my back to you; to pookie in particular, you are the very epitome of how a forum should not be administrated; you are a disrespectful, obtuse child thet demand respect from people who, in some cases is literally twice as old as you, and I'm apalled that Jason persists in allowing you to pull your stroppy, schoolboy antics in such a public place that could damage him financially, and to allow your little clique of friends to publicly barrage two very good people with a tirade of borderline abuse in such a public manner. Spacey, I had expected more from you, and in all honesty psi, I'm conflicted by you because you hide the maliciousness of your meaning and barreness of your existence behind dressed up words, so as to feeds your superiority complex.

If the three of you have any decency, I urge you to resign immediately so that jason may find some more qualified, adult admin, that fuley comprehend the meaning of respect, and the correct manner in which to treat and air grievances with a colleague.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:32 am**

iKon I think your over reacting, like many people.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:38 am**

iKon has been banned for blatantly abusive and insulting post. Since he was given one last chance (by person who he insulted in the post...there goes his gratitude...) I don't think he has much of chances to be unbanned. Some people sadly don't know when to stop...and when to act like adults.

iKon's behaviour was no way mature and adult -- despite him blaming Agapooka for being immature.

Teal'auc

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:12 am**

geisha wrote:
Vendetta wrote:
geisha wrote: Besides I never delete things I move them.

May I ask where the other thread is then?
just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it has been deleted

Am I to take it my post is gone then? And Moving to a place where it is inaccesible is covering it up just as much as deleting it. In both scenarios you are hiding it, along with your failure at being a good, let alone fair mod, from the comunity.

Posted: **Sat Jul 14, 2007 5:25 am**

There is a place on the forum where mods move things they dont want to be seen in the public, this way it can be kept for later referance ect.

StarGateWars Forums

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