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Sorry for the double post but ...

@TheRook

I said striking range ...... striking.

I am in striking range of Mojo right now ...... if I were to divert my income for 4-7 days I will have the power to wipe out his defense, kill a high % of his assassins and then assassinate over 75% of his military and covert planets.

It's what TL give as exemple ... a 50 mil guy taking out STI ..... of course STI will be back in a week and Mojo in about 2 days, but becasue they aren't going there neither will I.

Nostradamus wrote:Let's look at the facts. You ascended 1 year ago and made 5 more after. For the sake of the math I will place them 2 months one after the other.

I will consider you did descent ascensions ..... if you didn't ascended for the bonuses and you didn't intended to work you main account to hell to make big ascension.

This means you should have gotten around 7-8 mil APP from your 6 ascensions. Invested wisely you should have a minimum of 120 charisma, 100 production and 7 to 10 mil planets ...... such an account would be ranked around 100 right now.

So ... how that the number compare with the reality ?

if I did middle of the road ascensions I certainly wouldn't be near the APP I have now for the previous ones...

until I got to LG+1 I wasnt above 10mill main armysize...
if I started ascending now from scratch I would have that amount... but you seem to think people can ascend when they have lesss than 10mill armysize and lose 3 million UU in UU requirements alone... let alone 2 trill in UP costs or the 3.6 trill I've spent in covert/AC levels or even the 2.6 trill I've spent on my MS (all my ascensions previously lost ALL of my MS and I got them to about 8k slots on them each time (what a waste of naq)) but all to make my APP score higher... for what I had I ascended hard...

to get 7-8mill app when below 10 mill armysize over 6 ascensions is A LOT especially when at that point I hardly produced 1 bill/turn

you have to forgive me when I get carried away and type lots of numbers but you appear to be forgetting that not everyone ascends ONLY when they get to 30-50mill armysize...

if I did all my ascensions above 30mill armysize then great I would be ranked top 100... but right now I'm around the rank 500 mark...

I think you are proving that's been said over and over again ..... most people rushed their ascensions and it's normal at 10 mil army you can't ascend with 100k UP.

Right now a good way would be to space ascensions 1, maybe 1 and a half months ... start at 30 mil, then 40, then 50, then 60 and the last 2 at 75 mil.

It's about how much time you invest ..... 10-15 mil UU gained every month isn't very much, I would say it's quite slow .... you can get almost half of that with a decent UP and a couple of planets in 30 days ... the rest can be raided in 1 day if you are really into it.

I don't think it matters right now as to when, or how players ascended.
That is history.

The problem right now is that the game is not competitive and the server is dying.

That is why significant changes are required.
We need to look to the future not the past.

Nostradamus wrote:Sorry for the double post but ...

@TheRook

I said striking range ...... striking.

I am in striking range of Mojo right now ...... if I were to divert my income for 4-7 days I will have the power to wipe out his defense, kill a high % of his assassins and then assassinate over 75% of his military and covert planets.

It's what TL give as exemple ... a 50 mil guy taking out STI ..... of course STI will be back in a week and Mojo in about 2 days, but becasue they aren't going there neither will I.

I'm gunna double post too!

yes but your not going to be really within any comparable standard like for like with him... so saying your within striking range doesnt mean your actually going to be any match for him... I could strike STI in main if I wanted too (I'm not going to I'm not totally stupid) but I'm not going to say yea I can catch up with him or be on par with his account... they are two seperate things

what we are working for here is a way to get the ascended server more active by giving people more of a chance to get somewhere...

these updates aren't so people can beat those that have had 2 years head start or have spent loads of resources ascending... this is just so WE can play and actually get somewhere...

in reply to your post above this

over a year ago 10 UP planets with nice bonuses and the UP I have would have been something the big guys would have had over 1 year ago people werent much larger than 100mill... and if you take an average armysize of people playing (those that are active) you will probably find its below 15mill... so your saying they all have to wait? people can play how they want but the ascension server is a lot harder to grow in but these updates will make it easier...

Nothing will stop STI/Reborn/Mojo/HE and whoever from ascending again and putting the bonuses they get from the APP to LF conversion etc and the cheaper upgrades... but to be honest they will get more from just playing the game than ascending again... they have such a huge income (as reborn stated 1 weeks income he spent over 700 TRILLION DMU) and my planet size is about 1/10th of what they earn A DAY!

I know they have worked far harder than me and sacrificed far more which is why they deserve to be so big... I just want the chance to get bigger and the way ascension is right now its just too difficult for smaller people


TheRook

@ robe yup your right... as I've said a few times these updates are to reinvigorate the ascended server not to bring the big players down to their knees!

by the way 100k BASE UP is only

At a cost of: 8,332,582,500,000 Naquadah

at 2.4bill/turn thats only 10.5 weeks of full income spent on UP (and thats for a LG+1)

so thats an easily reachable tarket for people to aim for before they ascend... thats why you see everyone in the game with 100k BASE UP because its that easy to get!

can we stop throwing around figures that are just out of reach of the average player of SGW's


TheRook

my next ascension will be with a 500k base UP its only 208.4 TRILLION Naq thats reasonable right..

Nostradamus wrote:Why don't you talk point by point insted of saying everything globally is bad ??

i said in another thread i agreed with all the points they had and thought they were good updates

i am still unsure on whether or not cheaper power up levels be scrapped though 1/15th of the cost may be a bit cheap

TheRook wrote:my next ascension will be with a 500k base UP its only 208.4 TRILLION Naq thats reasonable right..

Actually, after ascending one time and seeing how hard the game was with a (fairly) low APP ascension, I've waited to ascend and had decided 8 months ago that I wouldn't ascend again until I was at around 100K raw up. It's just kinda funny how the numbers seem to align.

Personally, I think nerfing your first ascension is ok just to grab the ascended weaponry but after your first, the second shouldn't come until you're at or above 50 army. Yes, that could mean sitting around as a Prior for a long time (I'm currently at 8+ months) but it's worth it in the long run. I'm almost at 70K UP and 38 million army so I expect another month or more since I don't actively raid.

TheRook wrote:by the way 100k BASE UP is only

At a cost of: 8,332,582,500,000 Naquadah

at 2.4bill/turn thats only 10.5 weeks of full income spent on UP (and thats for a LG+1)

so thats an easily reachable tarket for people to aim for before they ascend... thats why you see everyone in the game with 100k BASE UP because its that easy to get!

can we stop throwing around figures that are just out of reach of the average player of SGW's

To be a bit mean ...... most of ascended formulas involve the cube (lvl raise to power 3) ..... so average (0.5) cubed is 0.125 ... while elite (1) cubed is still 1 ...... so 8 times bigger at least (it's difficult to factor time into this)

Or if we talk armies, which is a bit more realistic .... if you say average is around 25 mil .... top would be around 150 mil ... 6 times better ... 6 cubed is 216 times better .... you can be happy that Mojo's account isn't quite 200 times better then yours

Robe wrote:I don't think it matters right now as to when, or how players ascended.
That is history.

The problem right now is that the game is not competitive and the server is dying.

That is why significant changes are required.
We need to look to the future not the past.

I agree Robe

@Nostrodamus
Imagine a new player starting today in main.
1 They have to ascend to even think about competing in main and will take them 8 months to a year with no support to ascend correctly.
2 With the power costs the way they are they will never be able to compete in the ascended server which means they wont even bother with it meaning that they will only ascend to get the bonuses in main meaning the server will die. Changing the server for the little guy will not harm in any way the big guys and will make the ascended server more attractive to them and will revive the server making it more interesting for everyone.

Again you seem to be under the assumption that I am arguing these points because a I did crappy ascension and want the ability to take Mojo down handed to me on a plater. I state again I am under no illusions that I will ever catch up with Mojo and the other top 10 like I under no illusions that I will ever catch up with STI in main. What I want is a competitive server that is as much fun to play as main is but the way it is now it isnt, its pointless for the medium players and especially for the new players. So watering the updates down renders the update as pointless returning the server to its previous state of ascending for the bonuses for the new guys/girls.

Go further with "watering down" .... be more specific.

I do want a more competitive server and what has been summarised by HE will help it get there.

Nostradamus wrote:

TheRook wrote:by the way 100k BASE UP is only

At a cost of: 8,332,582,500,000 Naquadah

at 2.4bill/turn thats only 10.5 weeks of full income spent on UP (and thats for a LG+1)

so thats an easily reachable tarket for people to aim for before they ascend... thats why you see everyone in the game with 100k BASE UP because its that easy to get!

can we stop throwing around figures that are just out of reach of the average player of SGW's

To be a bit mean ...... most of ascended formulas involve the cube (lvl raise to power 3) ..... so average (0.5) cubed is 0.125 ... while elite (1) cubed is still 1 ...... so 8 times bigger at least (it's difficult to factor time into this)

Or if we talk armies, which is a bit more realistic .... if you say average is around 25 mil .... top would be around 150 mil ... 6 times better ... 6 cubed is 216 times better .... you can be happy that Mojo's account isn't quite 200 times better then yours

call my ascended account having 2million planets (it has less than that about 1.5-1.7) if I guess Mojo is around 700mill armysize on the ascended server

so he is only 350 times bigger than me... and with a growth of 4-5 times my armysize a day... now let me close that gap... oh wait as things stand I cant... now with the updates I can stop the gap getting bigger...


edit in main Mojo is around 100mill (guess) but probably higher... that 4x's more than me...
thats not bad is it... 4x's but there are caps in place to limit his growth... if those gaps weren't there say no raiding limits no buying limits... no plague... I predict that main would be just like the ascension server...

if you can prove me wrong be my guest... but for main it was better suited to slow them down... on the ascension server its easier to speed up the growth of the smaller players...

the reason behind this is that main has a lot more people and as such a lot more resources readily available...
the ascended server has about 2.5-3k people on it... maybe 1.5k of those are active... and with a 50mill/turn DMU income and 1.6-1.7mill planets... that puts me in at about the top 500-520...

which is where I would guess my main account would be if it was based on armysize... I'm sure there are at least 500 people with armysizes about the same if not bigger than mine considering the large amount of people that play and 26mill isn't a large armysize in main...

but the difference between number 1 largest armysize and the number 500 armysize isn't 350x's more

that is why these updates are needed in the ascension server

TheRook

ok i got a big post with a lot of ideas..

some radical changes that some may like or dislike and am not 100% certain about the rates and such but heres some ideas which involve compromise which you speak so much about

1. Fleets atm increase at 60k and every 10k after that.

how about if they stay the same increase till 100k then they have a major increase the the current cost for fleet 100,001.

so instead of having a big jump in price at 60k it would be a huge jump at 100k. so in effect it would be easier to get your up increased as a pose to the cost the big people endured.

2. leave all costs for the power ups the same as what they currently are bar charisma/production.

leave soft caps at 500/700.

make the cost for levels 0-250 in charisma 0-350 in production half price. Then over levels 250-500 charisma 350-700 for production bridge the gap in price created to the current ones so at 500 you are paying what the current prices are for charisma and 700 for production. effectively making the first half of the cap easier to get to then it is moderately easier until it becomes the same.

This boosts growth for the small then levels out the field to the big guys.

Not 100% sure on the percentages they were just a rough estimate.

3. small guys want raid to stay some big people want initiate revolution to stay. perhaps set a cap at 5mil planets where under 5 you can raid but not initiate revolution and over 5mil its the other way around.

also make it more costly to do initiate revolution.

big guys couldn't initiate revolution to guys under 5mil and little guys cant raid those over 5mil.

4. Vacation.

with the updates and ideas floating about with ppt on ascension make vacation lose all bonuses on main and no blessing as if you're active up there you should hit vacation to stop being descended or raided anymore and there are idea in place for small trips so i think this idea would be good. encourage those that don't play to play.

Timmy

Show me who is against the changes.

If you look over the archives you will see that it has been suggested for a long time to increase the APP:lf ratio among other things that could of made the gap not to be as large as it's now.

I think the best thing to do would be has been said ........ soft cap levels at 400, all above reimbursed ...... they would get to 500 production insted of 700 ..... their production would be 60% of what's now .... same thing would happen to CER ... they'll still have about 70% of the current rate of expansion.

This would be similar to the cap in main .... the large players would have their growth reduced.

Combined with the other proposed updates, mainly 50x higher APP:lf ratio and a big update of lf naturaly generated it will make the server more alive.

Nostradamus wrote:Show me who is against the changes.

If you look over the archives you will see that it has been suggested for a long time to increase the APP:lf ratio among other things that could of made the gap not to be as large as it's now.

I think the best thing to do would be has been said ........ soft cap levels at 400, all above reimbursed ...... they would get to 500 production insted of 700 ..... their production would be 60% of what's now .... same thing would happen to CER ... they'll still have about 70% of the current rate of expansion.

This would be similar to the cap in main .... the large players would have their growth reduced.

Combined with the other proposed updates, mainly 50x higher APP:lf ratio and a big update of lf naturaly generated it will make the server more alive.

the problem with that is all the time they've had lvl's over 400 to grow with. in effect you're making it harder for others to get those levels so it comes at a disadvantage to those under 400 as others will come back to 400 with over 1 billion planets while everyone else has significantly less