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Like Norbe said reason why alot of ppl have left is bevause of war going on for so long ppl just get bored of it.

But i have to point out one bit last year we detailed Scott off to talk with Taf, that being Math were it was being forward onto the rest of TAF.

This was for both sides to walk away niether side winning both going own ways, with a min of 6 months peace to be talked again 2 months before it ended to arrange a new date.

What we got a reply from Math to Scott which i see have a screen shot is that it was rejected was going to take nothing but a full surrender from DDE.

So the only ones to blame for the whole of last yr of this still going on is yourselfs.

MaxSterling wrote:The reason for this war was not on them, but yourselves... abusing your NAPs and taking in all of the well known farms and barely actives to allow them to leave all of that naq in the open behind the curtain of the NAP. Nobody likes to window shop.

The war really started with you... for starting a war of attrition. Protecting those farms left numerous people fighting for the same slowly diminishing group of known targets. There's no way that would have ended well, especially when you're looking for all the naq and it's sitting behind that invisible NAP wall in your empire of inactive farms.

So please, stop blaming DDE and Jöt. NAPs are what kill the game. Wars only emphasize what you already knew... which people have always been inactive in the first place.

At our peak membership in the last few years, TF had what? 120 members? It is comical to assume that this tiny percentage of the game was impeding anybody else's farming.

There are 65,000 accounts in the game. People have farm lists hundreds of pages long. Our four pages of accounts did no harm to anybody.

Now why do we like NAPs? There have always been good farms in any of the big alliances. Anytime you get some strength behind you and people are a little more reluctant to show up in your logs, naq does tend to pile up. See when people farm us, we try to be diplomatic first, send warnings, eventually it can lead to violence. When alliances such as DDE or OE would get attacked by us (often in response to them being in our logs), it was a much different story. Even if we had a DRA/NMA treaty in place that allowed farming, things always got out of hand. Every single time. Sometimes it was because we pushed things too far, a lot of the time it was because other big alliances don't appreciate reciprocal farming, even if it's fair and by the book.

Every alliance has a prerogative on how they want to play. Some are super aggressive pushing for war and looking for any provocation to bring it. We always tried to play a different way. To avoid conflicts with other alliances by walling ourselves off so to speak. Attacks lead to violence. No attacks, no violence. Of course in the end, that did lead to pent up feelings and desires to break things anyway, and that's okay. It's a game. People should play as they want. Just be up front about your desire to mass us. Farming is a poor excuse to cover it.

I think the issue you and I had was different GW worldview regarding farming. I just couldn't fathom why I shouldn't hit you guys a hundred times per day when it wasn't behind large defenses.

Loki™ wrote:I think one of the reasons this war has been more destrucitve is planets. Planets prevent mid and low level players from fighting back against the big accounts. When you start feeling like you can't do anything you'll stop playing.

This is a really valid point. I don't have planets with great stats as I can't afford to keep them. No point in me massing the big guns cause it would cost me a fortune in UU and Naq. When they can mass me with 5 mil supers.

Mathlord wrote:Loki was in part upset because we planet stripped an untagged HVE member, which, sure it sucks when your guy loses a bunch of duals and a triple (that was the source of my triple that I kept for a year or two), but we had no idea who he was...no way we were keeping track of all 100 of your accounts, especially when they weren't in any of your alliances at the time. Loki was particularly frustrated with us not really even budging on repayment and I am sure I was probably a bit of an ass about the whole thing

Your such a hypocrite. When I mass an inactive and unrecognised account on ascended to get a demi when they were first released, im told to repay extortionate amounts in compensation because HvE are friends and nice guys...


But when you mass someone and strip his planets because you liked them and you didnt know who he was (but knew he's in HvE) then its ok...

You're so full of **Filtered**, the standard is different when the shoes on the other foot isnt it.

Loki™ wrote:I think the issue you and I had was different GW worldview regarding farming. I just couldn't fathom why I shouldn't hit you guys a hundred times per day when it wasn't behind large defenses.

Your also not allowed to hit them 100 times day even when its inside the ratio of the agreed diplomatic treaty. The so called diplomatic ethos that Math has been going on about is a load of **Filtered**. He said he doesnt like when people arent straight forward about their reasoning etc but then cries when someone exercises the straight forward "diplomatic" agreements.

The problem isnt the size of TF, or the amount of accounts hiding behind a NAP. The problem is the warped attitude that your diplomatic. As reborn said, you were approached diplomatically... your response was pretty much "**Filtered** off".
Likewise with TO, you agreed a diplomatic stance on farming (because we didnt want NAPS when a good 75% of TF barely bank their naq), TO exercised that agreement to farm you... and then you start complaining your being farmed too much. On Zero defences... it wasnt aggressive, there was no weapon or loss of supers (save for small amounts of supers that were unarmed) yet in your warped view this was aggressive and was not ok. Despite being within DRA ratios and rules.

Your not diplomatic, your bullys. Your ignorate to reason and diplomacy and will only agree to something that suits you and your agenda. You refuse to accept responsibility (much like a child) for your own short comings. If your logs are full with incoming attacks on zero defences, dont try to force the entire server to compensate for your failures. You can just as easily fix the issue yourself by asking that person to build a higher def, lower their income, or removing them for damaging your reputation.

In TO, if we get farmed... its our fault. Build a bigger defence, or stop crying about it. Fair enough if you have 10t def, and someone with planets and an MS is hitting you for your naq because it costs them nothing... yea mass them or their alliance for abusing their account status to farm you. But on a zero defence, or very small defence.. you cant blame dde (or loki) for being annoyed that you want to force them to ignore it. Just because you ignore the problem, doesnt mean the entire server has to.


Im sure i speak for most of the guys in DDE HC aswell when i say if you wanted to be diplomatic and end things, to breathe life back into the game. Theres a perfectly acceptable DIPLOMATIC solution just waiting to be accepted.

Why is the subject popping up with
Re: Jötunheim vs TAF

Did this war originally start with Jötunheim and not DDE

*pulls himself out of his beanbag chair*

~Tziki~, as much as I've never cared for you to much in the past, you're pretty much right. The only part that I would change in what you did is that it is not just TAF.

DDE,OE,TL,TAF are all to blame for any and all hypocrisy that is being said and done ingame and he'll, even in the forums. And yet, it's not just them. HVE, mH, NM and I'm sure even Spaceballs have said or done something that had harmed the game.

Loki is a friend and I'm not trying to get this to come across as me defending him due to that. But it's pretty petty to blame one person for any large thing that's happened to the game that may be causing it to die or killed it.

TAF I think, believe so anyways is just now threatening to mass LV due to LV farming their inactive players. It's just silly. An alliance is there to protect your members but don't call out others for massing and farming your members who probably forgot about sgw 4 years ago. That, is what's keeping this game in a cycle of death. You can't expect people to respect your alliance, any of them if you're sitting there protecting account that don't do anything and have not done anything for years.

My Talos, I don't even know let what I was saying anymore. This is and has always been a big circle jerk

Mathlord wrote:

Kikaz wrote:Lol it was actually only 2 DDE hc and 1 mh hc, if that's considered a bunch.

Out of about a dozen players? Yeah...

From mH it were 2 HC (duderanch and kikaz) and I think 1 member (dastupy) who left for jotunheim and 'informed' the rest of mH they wanted to farm outside the NAPS.

So we (the members who remained in mH) knew their plans but had no say in it, neither can you stop somebody leaving your alliance and start a new one to farm others...

I do understand TAF's reaction of massing both mH and DDE in return, I would indeed have done the same if it would have been the other way around. And yes, the moment Jotunheim was formed everyone saw this one coming.

However (and I think its already the 3 th or 4 th time during this war I want to put this out here), the people who remained in mH did not deliberatly want to start this war.

Ironic though that most of the people who actually started this war are now either inactive or sitting in alliances outside the war. While others who did not chose to start it remain. #stubborness

On the respect note (reaction to what Norbe said) : I think I can say the current mH members always treated all Terran Family members with respect during this war. To be fair, thats maybe easy to say becaus we are not numerous either :p, atm considering active players thats yoyo and myself, it is what it is...

During my already long SGW career, I think most of the time I have been at war with TA and TL. I admire your alliances teamwork and relentlessness to go on (with long wars). Fighting you guys always has kept me on the edge, feeling the need to improve my account and to keep building defence and go on myself.

Colonel Jack Oneill wrote:Why is the subject popping up with
Re: Jötunheim vs TAF

Did this war originally start with Jötunheim and not DDE

Yes. Though Jötunheim again joined DDE once they entered the war.

Shots fired!

~Tziki~ wrote:

Mathlord wrote:Loki was in part upset because we planet stripped an untagged HVE member, which, sure it sucks when your guy loses a bunch of duals and a triple (that was the source of my triple that I kept for a year or two), but we had no idea who he was...no way we were keeping track of all 100 of your accounts, especially when they weren't in any of your alliances at the time. Loki was particularly frustrated with us not really even budging on repayment and I am sure I was probably a bit of an ass about the whole thing

Your such a hypocrite. When I mass an inactive and unrecognised account on ascended to get a demi when they were first released, im told to repay extortionate amounts in compensation because HvE are friends and nice guys...


But when you mass someone and strip his planets because you liked them and you didnt know who he was (but knew he's in HvE) then its ok...

You're so full of **Filtered**, the standard is different when the shoes on the other foot isnt it.

Loki™ wrote:I think the issue you and I had was different GW worldview regarding farming. I just couldn't fathom why I shouldn't hit you guys a hundred times per day when it wasn't behind large defenses.

Your also not allowed to hit them 100 times day even when its inside the ratio of the agreed diplomatic treaty. The so called diplomatic ethos that Math has been going on about is a load of **Filtered**. He said he doesnt like when people arent straight forward about their reasoning etc but then cries when someone exercises the straight forward "diplomatic" agreements.

The problem isnt the size of TF, or the amount of accounts hiding behind a NAP. The problem is the warped attitude that your diplomatic. As reborn said, you were approached diplomatically... your response was pretty much "**Filtered** off".
Likewise with TO, you agreed a diplomatic stance on farming (because we didnt want NAPS when a good 75% of TF barely bank their naq), TO exercised that agreement to farm you... and then you start complaining your being farmed too much. On Zero defences... it wasnt aggressive, there was no weapon or loss of supers (save for small amounts of supers that were unarmed) yet in your warped view this was aggressive and was not ok. Despite being within DRA ratios and rules.

Your not diplomatic, your bullys. Your ignorate to reason and diplomacy and will only agree to something that suits you and your agenda. You refuse to accept responsibility (much like a child) for your own short comings. If your logs are full with incoming attacks on zero defences, dont try to force the entire server to compensate for your failures. You can just as easily fix the issue yourself by asking that person to build a higher def, lower their income, or removing them for damaging your reputation.

In TO, if we get farmed... its our fault. Build a bigger defence, or stop crying about it. Fair enough if you have 10t def, and someone with planets and an MS is hitting you for your naq because it costs them nothing... yea mass them or their alliance for abusing their account status to farm you. But on a zero defence, or very small defence.. you cant blame dde (or loki) for being annoyed that you want to force them to ignore it. Just because you ignore the problem, doesnt mean the entire server has to.


Im sure i speak for most of the guys in DDE HC aswell when i say if you wanted to be diplomatic and end things, to breathe life back into the game. Theres a perfectly acceptable DIPLOMATIC solution just waiting to be accepted.

Haha. Okay Tziki, you were asked to repay the person that you massed because he was tagged and not inactive. His account was weak and you were trying to take advantage for the benefit of your own account. I understand why you did that, but we had a treaty that covered HVE and that included no massing. The person whose planets we stripped was NOT tagged. We had no idea who the person was. It was HVE who informed us that he was a member of theirs, just not covered by any of their alliances. There was no way that we would have known that (or should have been expected to know that). I can't begin to describe how many times we've had trouble with alliances attacking untagged people over here and we were kind of left in a bind in how to resolve it.

The recent issue with you that restarted this war was you making over 150 attacks in a single day. We didn't feel that was appropriate considering we were being generous in letting TO out of the war with pretty fair terms. You are more than welcome to disagree. Attempts by us to renegotiate terms of our treaty that would satisfy both of our sides didn't work, the treaty was dissolved and you declared war on us...again. We were being nice in letting you out of this war to begin with considering you do nothing at all to us and you are at least a modicum of occasional entertainment to us in return but it didn't work out. Obviously there is a ton of bad blood here, especially between you and me ever since we asked you to leave TF back in the day. If tensions are already high, the more attacks, the faster lead to provocation.

Heisenberg wrote:

Loki™ wrote:I think one of the reasons this war has been more destrucitve is planets. Planets prevent mid and low level players from fighting back against the big accounts. When you start feeling like you can't do anything you'll stop playing.

This is a really valid point. I don't have planets with great stats as I can't afford to keep them. No point in me massing the big guns cause it would cost me a fortune in UU and Naq. When they can mass me with 5 mil supers.

I know a few people that quit shortly after the war started because the planets were really taking away their will to mass or build defenses. But besides that, I dropped a few hundred dollars just to be able to put a dent in Rhett's mothership, and I didn't even **Filtered** touch High Empty.

I kept massing until I sold my account, but there were others that wouldn't want to mass at all after the initial "yay cool war let's all mass together" phase because their losses were too great to take down so little.


PS: Hi everyone

Eärendil wrote:*pulls himself out of his beanbag chair*

~Tziki~, as much as I've never cared for you to much in the past, you're pretty much right. The only part that I would change in what you did is that it is not just TAF.

DDE,OE,TL,TAF are all to blame for any and all hypocrisy that is being said and done ingame and he'll, even in the forums. And yet, it's not just them. HVE, mH, NM and I'm sure even Spaceballs have said or done something that had harmed the game.

Loki is a friend and I'm not trying to get this to come across as me defending him due to that. But it's pretty petty to blame one person for any large thing that's happened to the game that may be causing it to die or killed it.

TAF I think, believe so anyways is just now threatening to mass LV due to LV farming their inactive players. It's just silly. An alliance is there to protect your members but don't call out others for massing and farming your members who probably forgot about sgw 4 years ago. That, is what's keeping this game in a cycle of death. You can't expect people to respect your alliance, any of them if you're sitting there protecting account that don't do anything and have not done anything for years.

My Talos, I don't even know let what I was saying anymore. This is and has always been a big circle jerk

There was an incident with HVE last week that needs to be resolved including a mistake on our part with someone overstepping. Whoever is currently in charge of HVE I would appreciate having them message me. It may have started with farming of zero defenses, but it became a bigger issue with sniping online farming naq and then messages sent back and forth. it didn't help matters that Leaf Village has a new name. That said, nobody in TF should be massing others for the farming actions of one person. If said person was massing TF, then hey go to town, but we do try to stick by that rule.

Obviously mistakes happen and when people get bored dealing with the same old drudgery ingame over time, people might lash out in ways that aren't appreciated. Add in a lot of people poking around the game again for the first time in awhile stirring up the status quo and it adds to situations getting out of hand when we're so used to things being super calm.

In the end, all TF ever asked of the big empires in the game was to be left alone. We wanted NAPs to ensure that you didn't attack us and we didn't attack you. That has never been an unreasonable statement. You didn't make your accounts by farming us (even if we have good farms) just as we don't make ours by farming you guys (especially considering your propensities for massing back haha). The best way to ensure that nothing gets out of hand is to prevent anything from happening in the first place. It's amazing how many fewer problems there are during NAPs.

There was actually a time of great peace when ETL, Jedi~Tank and I ran diplomatic talks and we had a really nice understanding (at least as far as TAF was concerned). We had years of happy times with no drama and very minimal problems. It could work, even with all the hot heads in game pushing for war, if people wanted it enough. When leadership changed and desires changed, well obviously that changed too. It was fun while it lasted though.

I will say that it was quite fun when we were all at war with each other too. That threeway battle led to some really exciting cross empire pacts and betrayals during onliners. It was some good times.

Rodwolf wrote:

Mathlord wrote:

Kikaz wrote:Lol it was actually only 2 DDE hc and 1 mh hc, if that's considered a bunch.

Out of about a dozen players? Yeah...

From mH it were 2 HC (duderanch and kikaz) and I think 1 member (dastupy) who left for jotunheim and 'informed' the rest of mH they wanted to farm outside the NAPS.

So we (the members who remained in mH) knew their plans but had no say in it, neither can you stop somebody leaving your alliance and start a new one to farm others...

I do understand TAF's reaction of massing both mH and DDE in return, I would indeed have done the same if it would have been the other way around. And yes, the moment Jotunheim was formed everyone saw this one coming.

However (and I think its already the 3 th or 4 th time during this war I want to put this out here), the people who remained in mH did not deliberatly want to start this war.

Ironic though that most of the people who actually started this war are now either inactive or sitting in alliances outside the war. While others who did not chose to start it remain. #stubborness

On the respect note (reaction to what Norbe said) : I think I can say the current mH members always treated all Terran Family members with respect during this war. To be fair, thats maybe easy to say becaus we are not numerous either :p, atm considering active players thats yoyo and myself, it is what it is...

During my already long SGW career, I think most of the time I have been at war with TA and TL. I admire your alliances teamwork and relentlessness to go on (with long wars). Fighting you guys always has kept me on the edge, feeling the need to improve my account and to keep building defence and go on myself.

It is ironic how most of the super aggressive people do tend to peter off...they come around, initiate war then dissipate into the background after it gets stale for them. The lifers are the ones that stick around forever

I have nothing bad to say about the members of Mayhem. I'm sure we've had disagreements in the past that I can't really remember anymore, but you always act with class during battles or messages ingame/on the forum. There's a reason that TAF vs Mayhem/Venom war back in 2007 was one of our favorites. How many wars now have we fought against eachother Rodwolf? I still remember being a weak little account trying to mass you down in that first war, and you sitting there repairing over and over again. Anyway, good times all around. I know we have our hot heads over here, but we do try to keep emotions in check, most of the time. I have been known to yell at people when they do not.

PS NOOBERT! I forgot he was Mayhem. Okay I didn't like him haha. Good fighter but man we didn't see eye to eye on anything...

Mathlord wrote:
Haha. Okay Tziki, you were asked to repay the person that you massed because he was tagged and not inactive. His account was weak and you were trying to take advantage for the benefit of your own account.

Mathlord wrote:The recent issue with you that restarted this war was you making over 150 attacks in a single day. We didn't feel that was appropriate considering we were being generous in letting TO out of the war with pretty fair terms.

150 attacks in a day, farming, inside the agreement.

1) its inside the agreement. It doesnt matter what you "feel" you agreed it, I exercised it. Its not my fault you lack the common sense to realise if you agree im allowed to do it, then im going to do it...

2) "you do nothing at all to us and you are at least a modicum of occasional entertainment" If i made 150 attacks in a day, and you wanted to restart the war then clearly i did do something to you. So as usual you contradict yourself.

3) This wasnt started by us. You refused to make repayments to a member, after i had done so several times.

4) Diplo talks wont go well when you send Hokie to do them...



I agree as of late i've not been very active or done much towards you in the way of war but i've been busy working and studying and honestly just dont have the cash to waste trying to keep up, however we are only in this war on account of a traiitor that wanted my help diplomatically, and then fled the alliance when you refused to repay. He now resides in Judgement.

So you'll have to excuse me if i lack both the time, cash and frankly the motive. To mass you every day.

Though i do build when i can =]