Real Religion... ready to vent

[Colton]

What is the purpose of religion anyway? I mean, "To worship God and go to heaven" is an obvious answer, but is that really all you want?

Personally, I believe the goal of any path should be wisdom and enlightenment, among other things just as valuable. That said, why does there have to be any "real" religion at all? Aren't we all aiming for the same goal, while walking different paths (Like driving. Many roads to take, one destination...usually)?

And why do you want to go to heaven anyway? Heaven and Hell are just places. Like two cells of the leaf of a plant are just two "places". Those two cells are not all there is to that leaf, that leaf is not all there is to the stem, the stem is not all there is to the flower--and then, beyond the flower is the garden, and beyond the garden is other gardens, and beyond that theres still more!

But in the end, if you only follow your path because you want to go to heaven out of fear for hell (which, in my opinion, is rather silly, since fear [among other things] is only self-doubt in disguise), then you are losing the true meaning of your path.

Don't mind me, though. I'm just a random passer by, who happens to see things a little differently.

Very nice post

[Mister Sandman]

Oh I do like how religious fanatics bend things to fit their theories.
Theories? Bending? I am not bending anything to fit the facts.
Just to throw a spanner in the works as it was, ya'll realise dont ya that the current & previous pope both thought that the bible wasnt verbatim truth or fact and that it was made up of stories (parables) that would have been understood by the people of those times to encourage them to think and to live their life in a proper way.

Pope? Pope? What Pope? Hahahahahaha, I dont beleive in the pope. I dont even consider Catholics "real". The popes view is falwed.

and with that I walk away, theres no point in arguing with religious nuts, all they do is drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience rather than intelligence.


g'day y'all

The days in the bible are undefined, so 1 day could mean thousands of years. Also when thinking of evolution answer the question....Why?

so how can a day be thousands of years? and 'God slowed the earths rotation' isnt an answer, its a joke

God isnt binded by the laws of space, time and science.

if the days in the bible are undefined, why are they defined when it suits your purpose for them to be? after the death of Jesus by crucifixion he rose from the dead after 3 days. by your reasoning he could have rose from the dead after thousands of years. if that is true, how were his followers still alive when he was ressurected?

Its all relative. Thus, the crucifixion Christ and him rising up from the dead after 3 days is relative to men.

There is a huge difference.



your logic crumbles. you twist and mutilate truth to fit with your predetermined beliefs. any casual observer can plainly see that your retorts have no substance and that they lack any common sense. denial of any facts which do not reinforce your delusion makes me think you are brainwashed.

Your poorly constructed logic makes me think your infact brainwashed.


ive lost respect for Christianity (specifically your 'type' of Christianity whichever it may be) by seeing how it has captured your mind and locked it in mistaken ideas, which are basically lies.

Feel Free to give a better doctrine to life.

much of the bible i would never argue with. much is taken on faith as it cannot be proven. thats how things should be and it is good. when you try to prove the unprovable you degrade yourself, and in the name of what?

Nothing is imposslibe when God is by ones side.

theres no such thing as evolution. God created every living creature out of lego in a few days using holy majik he also planted masses of evidence to trick humanity yeh

There is such thing as evoultion. Are you that thick that you havnt read me say that evoultion is scientific fact? Just overal there has to be a start. (see evoultion thread ) God indeed created the heaven and the earth. Everything he has done is turthful, holy, and good.

@kit-fox
yep they do like to. im bored, so i reply. its quite interesting to realise 1st hand what people convince themselves of. peaceout

[Thriller]

mister sandman, do you see the bible as historically accurate and factual? do you believe everything in it is true?

Do I see? I know it is historically accurate and factual.

It is truth.



[spoiler]

Wow you are really using a weak argument.

Obversely PI or π is not = 3

Another verse for your liking... 2 Chronicles 4:2

However, I believe you have misinterpreted this/these verse/verses.

Before I go into that, history lesson!

Babylonian mathematicians, as early as the 19th century BC, were using π ≈ 25⁄8, which is about 0.5% below the exact value.

Back to the argument on hand

Firstly, In the Mishnat ha-Middot, Rabbi Nehemiah explains that saying that the diameter was measured from the outside of the brim while the circumference was measured along the inner rim. The stated dimensions would be exact if measured this way on a brim about four inches wide.

So you have the Inner Circumference of..30
and outside diameter is = 10

And thus the out side circumference = 2PIr = 2 PI 5 = 31.415926535897932384626433832795....

OC (outside circumference) / OD (outside diameter) = 3.141592653589793238462643383279....


Hum...looks pretty much PI if you ask me.

If you somehow don't accept that....

Lets go through a few other possibilities.

1. It is noted that Hebrews tended to round numbers...
2.The basin may not have been exactly a circle,
3.The brim was wider than the bowl itself
4. Reconstructions of the basin show a wider brim extending outward from the bowl itself by several inches


Alternatively there are better explanations....

Just for a few light reads...


Here
Here
Here
Here

The ratio of for PI is the circumference dived by the diameter i don't know WTH that rabbi is talking about but their is no inner circumference mentioned (talking about a circle within a circle?), You'll have to clarify.

So you have the Inner Circumference of..30
and outside diameter is = 10

And thus the out side circumference = 2PIr = 2 PI 5 = 31.415926535897932384626433832795....

OC (outside circumference) / OD (outside diameter) = 3.141592653589793238462643383279....


Hum...looks pretty much PI if you ask me.

C=2πr right
Therefore if the diameter is 10 the circumference must be approximately 31.4(bible says its 30 and theirs no mention of any rim or anything else)

The circumference is the distance around a closed curve. If when the bible said the circumference was thirty and it was talking about a circle within a larger circle, and the diameter was the cross measurement of the larger circle that contained the former. Then what i said no longer applys. But i see no mention in the verse where it states any of that. NO mention of a brim, or any such thing. The rabbi is putting words into god's mouth. (There's probably a lot of that in the bible). The only way you achieved the result of pi was by using the properly calculated circumference of 31.4; this number is not ever mentioned. Good job!!!(extreme sarcasm) If you knew anything about algebra you would know you didn't even have to do a ratio conversion because you already used the proper number of pi in your first calculation to get the damn right circumference in the first place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1, GOD.

My point is that the bible cannot be the exact word of god, for then god would have been proven to be wrong(their are more examples, i just picked one I'm most familiar with). Even if god spoke the words to the people who wrote it, they obviously must have translated it so people would understand it. Therefore this leaves the doors wide open to errors in interpretation from the writers and the book is therefore subject to scrutiny and even further interpretation. (What that rabbi did is a perfect example).

Their maybe be a god but the bible is not his word. Just a translation.

[/spoiler]

Mate, dont play games what you dont understand. Your going round in "circles"... to a "degree" that your contradicting yourself. (Yes people you may all laugh at my funny references)

Here is the verse for again

I Kings 7:23-26

He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths. (NIV)


I dont know how to say this but all you can do READ



To your so called point. The bible is inspired by God, written by man.
But overly the Bible's scripture is truth. The scriptures itself is truth. Yes, it is subjected to interpretation of people who do read it. However, we dont need those interpretations for the bible to be true. Stand alone the bible is truth.

Really?, plz point out then when it says "It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it" it wasn't talking about the entire circumference. And where does it say their was the magical outer rim encircling it. Because from what i read the rim refers to the edge of of the bole, And actually in the original Latin bible; the word that was translated as rim was "labrum" which means edge or lip.

By these measurements Pi equals three. Any attempt to prove otherwise, involves the use of information not contained within the text or blatant disregard for translational errors(maybe you can locate the original hebrew).

You know whats really really funny. The exact value of pi was discovered before the bible was ever written.

It breaks down to the fact that basically you are brainwashed. Trying to reason out lies rather than admit you were wrong.

Their maybe be a god but the bible is not his autobiography.

[Mister Sandman]

Really?, plz point out then when it says "It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it" it wasn't talking about the entire circumference. And where does it say their was the magical outer rim encircling it. Because from what i read the rim refers to the edge of of the bole, And actually in the original Latin bible; the word that was translated as rim was "labrum" which means edge or lip.

By these measurements Pi equals three. Any attempt to prove otherwise, involves the use of information not contained within the text or blatant disregard for translational errors(maybe you can locate the original hebrew).

You know whats really really funny. The exact value of pi was discovered before the bible was ever written.

It breaks down to the fact that basically you are brainwashed. Trying to reason out lies rather than admit you were wrong.

Their maybe be a god but the bible is not his autobiography.

Read

PI is not 3

Different civilizations had different figures for Pi back before the most accurate of figures became known. Sorry for quoting but I haven't been over this for a long time.

The earliest known approximations date from around 1900 BC; they are 25/8 (Babylonia) and 256/81 (Egypt), both within 1% of the true value. The Indian text Shatapatha Brahmana gives ?? as 339/108 ??? 3.139. The Tanakh appears to suggest, in the Book of Kings, that ?? = 3, which is notably worse than other estimates available at the time of writing (600 BC). The interpretation of the passage is disputed, as some believe the ratio of 3:1 is of an exterior circumference to an interior diameter of a thinly walled basin, which could indeed be an accurate ratio, depending on the thickness of the walls.

[Demeisen]

its quite easy to say something involving maths is correct if you add in random numbers derived from guesswork/hope

[Thriller]

Really?, plz point out then when it says "It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it" it wasn't talking about the entire circumference. And where does it say their was the magical outer rim encircling it. Because from what i read the rim refers to the edge of of the bole, And actually in the original Latin bible; the word that was translated as rim was "labrum" which means edge or lip.

By these measurements Pi equals three. Any attempt to prove otherwise, involves the use of information not contained within the text or blatant disregard for translational errors(maybe you can locate the original hebrew).

You know whats really really funny. The exact value of pi was discovered before the bible was ever written.

It breaks down to the fact that basically you are brainwashed. Trying to reason out lies rather than admit you were wrong.

Their maybe be a god but the bible is not his autobiography.

Read

PI is not 3

Different civilizations had different figures for Pi back before the most accurate of figures became known. Sorry for quoting but I haven't been over this for a long time.

The earliest known approximations date from around 1900 BC; they are 25/8 (Babylonia) and 256/81 (Egypt), both within 1% of the true value. The Indian text Shatapatha Brahmana gives ?? as 339/108 ??? 3.139. The Tanakh appears to suggest, in the Book of Kings, that ?? = 3, which is notably worse than other estimates available at the time of writing (600 BC). The interpretation of the passage is disputed, as some believe the ratio of 3:1 is of an exterior circumference to an interior diameter of a thinly walled basin, which could indeed be an accurate ratio, depending on the thickness of the walls.

All i got from this was that i was wrong about the proper value of pi being discovered before the old testament. (At least the Babylonians tried). And that the bible is too vague to be correct. But looking at the Latin and English translations i don't see how you could rationally draw that ratio conclusion.

[Mister Sandman]

its quite easy to say something involving maths is correct if you add in random numbers derived from guesswork/hope

PI is an irrational number.

For thrillers sake lets do more calculations

The bowl is said to have had a circumference of thirty cubits and a diameter of ten cubits. The diameter is said to be "from one rim to the other", so this would be the outer diameter; that is, the diameter of the outer mold used to make the bowl.

The outer diameter, from rim to rim, was ten cubits.

The circumference is not specified as being the inner or outer circumference, but since using the outer circumference would give us the "ideal" bowl (with no width or thickness), let's instead use the inner circumference, which also, reasonably, would have been the circumference of the mold used to form the inside of the bowl. That is, we will use the two measurements which were necessary for the casting of the piece.

Using eighteen inches for one cubit, we have the following:

outer diameter: 10 cubits, or 180 inches
outer radius: 5 cubits, or 90 inches
inner circumference: 30 cubits, or 540 inches

To find the "Jewish" or "Bible" value for pi, we need to have the inner radius. Once we have that value, we can plug it into the formula for the circumference and compare with the given circumference value of 540 inches.

Since the thickness of the bowl is given as one handsbreadth, then the inner radius must be:

90 – 4 = 86 inches

Let's do the calculations:

inner radius: 86 inches
inner circumference: 540 inches


The inner radius and the inner circumference.

The circumference formula is C = 2(pi)r, which gives us:

540 = 2(pi)(86)
540 = 172(pi)

Solving, we get pi = 540/172 = 135/43 = 3.1395348837..., or about 3.14.

Isnt 3.14 what the "modern" times use?

[Mister Sandman]

[quote="LiQuiD"]

according to the bible the earth is less than ten thousand years old right?

[quote]
Where in the bible? Where is your evidence?

[n3M351s]

[spoiler]

Oh I do like how religious fanatics bend things to fit their theories.
Theories? Bending? I am not bending anything to fit the facts.
Just to throw a spanner in the works as it was, ya'll realise dont ya that the current & previous pope both thought that the bible wasnt verbatim truth or fact and that it was made up of stories (parables) that would have been understood by the people of those times to encourage them to think and to live their life in a proper way.

Pope? Pope? What Pope? Hahahahahaha, I dont beleive in the pope. I dont even consider Catholics "real". The popes view is falwed.

and with that I walk away, theres no point in arguing with religious nuts, all they do is drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience rather than intelligence.


g'day y'all

The days in the bible are undefined, so 1 day could mean thousands of years. Also when thinking of evolution answer the question....Why?

so how can a day be thousands of years? and 'God slowed the earths rotation' isnt an answer, its a joke

God isnt binded by the laws of space, time and science.

if the days in the bible are undefined, why are they defined when it suits your purpose for them to be? after the death of Jesus by crucifixion he rose from the dead after 3 days. by your reasoning he could have rose from the dead after thousands of years. if that is true, how were his followers still alive when he was ressurected?

Its all relative. Thus, the crucifixion Christ and him rising up from the dead after 3 days is relative to men.

There is a huge difference.



your logic crumbles. you twist and mutilate truth to fit with your predetermined beliefs. any casual observer can plainly see that your retorts have no substance and that they lack any common sense. denial of any facts which do not reinforce your delusion makes me think you are brainwashed.

Your poorly constructed logic makes me think your infact brainwashed.


ive lost respect for Christianity (specifically your 'type' of Christianity whichever it may be) by seeing how it has captured your mind and locked it in mistaken ideas, which are basically lies.

Feel Free to give a better doctrine to life.

much of the bible i would never argue with. much is taken on faith as it cannot be proven. thats how things should be and it is good. when you try to prove the unprovable you degrade yourself, and in the name of what?

Nothing is imposslibe when God is by ones side.

theres no such thing as evolution. God created every living creature out of lego in a few days using holy majik he also planted masses of evidence to trick humanity yeh

There is such thing as evoultion. Are you that thick that you havnt read me say that evoultion is scientific fact? Just overal there has to be a start. (see evoultion thread ) God indeed created the heaven and the earth. Everything he has done is turthful, holy, and good.

@kit-fox
yep they do like to. im bored, so i reply. its quite interesting to realise 1st hand what people convince themselves of. peaceout

[/spoiler]That's a good post.

Most nonreligious people seem to have no knowledge of Religious denomination at all.

Let me enlighten you by having a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

As you can see there are hundreds of different denominations and each with varied beliefs.

[Demeisen]

so how can they all be right? clearly some must be wrong. why cant you be the ones who are wrong? you cant all be following the true path can you. . .

yeh think about it


pick up that slipknot CD & loose the evil from within your stereo

sacrifice a goat to peter griffin

covet ye neighbours waffles

the power of waffles compels you, the power of waffles compels you!

[Thriller]

Any way. what about this

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?

"And God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years. And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth." And it was so. And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day an the lesser light to govern the night. He made the stars also. And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth and to govern the day and the night and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

[Thriller]

its quite easy to say something involving maths is correct if you add in random numbers derived from guesswork/hope

PI is an irrational number.

For thrillers sake lets do more calculations

The bowl is said to have had a circumference of thirty cubits and a diameter of ten cubits. The diameter is said to be "from one rim to the other", so this would be the outer diameter; that is, the diameter of the outer mold used to make the bowl.

The outer diameter, from rim to rim, was ten cubits.

The circumference is not specified as being the inner or outer circumference, but since using the outer circumference would give us the "ideal" bowl (with no width or thickness), let's instead use the inner circumference, which also, reasonably, would have been the circumference of the mold used to form the inside of the bowl. That is, we will use the two measurements which were necessary for the casting of the piece.

Using eighteen inches for one cubit, we have the following:

outer diameter: 10 cubits, or 180 inches
outer radius: 5 cubits, or 90 inches
inner circumference: 30 cubits, or 540 inches

To find the "Jewish" or "Bible" value for pi, we need to have the inner radius. Once we have that value, we can plug it into the formula for the circumference and compare with the given circumference value of 540 inches.

Since the thickness of the bowl is given as one handsbreadth, then the inner radius must be:

90 – 4 = 86 inches

Let's do the calculations:

inner radius: 86 inches
inner circumference: 540 inches


The inner radius and the inner circumference.

The circumference formula is C = 2(pi)r, which gives us:

540 = 2(pi)(86)
540 = 172(pi)

Solving, we get pi = 540/172 = 135/43 = 3.1395348837..., or about 3.14.

Isnt 3.14 what the "modern" times use?

That's crap, you are pulling those numbers out of your ass, where does it say it's 4 inches thick? where did you get 90 inches from? where? PLz god tell me? I mean it could just be a hole in the ground, its vague, who says it was measured inside the rim? You can still have a thick bole and take the outer circumference, .
and the original Latin clearly said it was measured around the edge.

[Mister Sandman]

so how can they all be right? clearly some must be wrong. why cant you be the ones who are wrong? you cant all be following the true path can you. . .

yeh think about it


pick up that slipknot CD & loose the evil from within your stereo

sacrifice a goat to peter griffin

covet ye neighbours waffles

the power of waffles compels you, the power of waffles compels you!

If the fundamental beliefs are the same then it doesnt really matter.


Also, it has to do with interpretations of different verses, which isnt a bad thing, and the choice of a certain life-style.

Any way. what about this

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?

"And God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years. And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth." And it was so. And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day an the lesser light to govern the night. He made the stars also. And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth and to govern the day and the night and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

I'll address this when I have time.... ( I should be studying)

[spoiler]

its quite easy to say something involving maths is correct if you add in random numbers derived from guesswork/hope

PI is an irrational number.

For thrillers sake lets do more calculations

The bowl is said to have had a circumference of thirty cubits and a diameter of ten cubits. The diameter is said to be "from one rim to the other", so this would be the outer diameter; that is, the diameter of the outer mold used to make the bowl.

The outer diameter, from rim to rim, was ten cubits.

The circumference is not specified as being the inner or outer circumference, but since using the outer circumference would give us the "ideal" bowl (with no width or thickness), let's instead use the inner circumference, which also, reasonably, would have been the circumference of the mold used to form the inside of the bowl. That is, we will use the two measurements which were necessary for the casting of the piece.

Using eighteen inches for one cubit, we have the following:

outer diameter: 10 cubits, or 180 inches
outer radius: 5 cubits, or 90 inches
inner circumference: 30 cubits, or 540 inches

To find the "Jewish" or "Bible" value for pi, we need to have the inner radius. Once we have that value, we can plug it into the formula for the circumference and compare with the given circumference value of 540 inches.

Since the thickness of the bowl is given as one handsbreadth, then the inner radius must be:

90 – 4 = 86 inches

Let's do the calculations:

inner radius: 86 inches
inner circumference: 540 inches


The inner radius and the inner circumference.

The circumference formula is C = 2(pi)r, which gives us:

540 = 2(pi)(86)
540 = 172(pi)

Solving, we get pi = 540/172 = 135/43 = 3.1395348837..., or about 3.14.

Isnt 3.14 what the "modern" times use?

[/spoiler]


That's crap, you are pulling those numbers out of your ass, where does it say it's 4 inches thick? where did you get 90 inches from? where? PLz god tell me? I mean it could just be a hole in the ground, its vague, who says it has to have a rim. You can still have a thick bole and take the outer circumference, .
and the original Latin clearly said it was measured around the edge.

Maybe you should ask God.

Read the verse. Thats all I can say....


And learn the original Hebrew if you want to be fully accurate.

[Thriller]

so how can they all be right? clearly some must be wrong. why cant you be the ones who are wrong? you cant all be following the true path can you. . .

yeh think about it


pick up that slipknot CD & loose the evil from within your stereo

sacrifice a goat to peter griffin

covet ye neighbours waffles

the power of waffles compels you, the power of waffles compels you!

If the fundamental beliefs are the same then it doesnt really matter.


Also, it has to do with interpretations of different verses, which isnt a bad thing, and the choice of a certain life-style.

Any way. what about this

God creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day (1:14-19). And how could there be "the evening and the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?

"And God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years. And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth." And it was so. And God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day an the lesser light to govern the night. He made the stars also. And God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth and to govern the day and the night and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

I'll address this when I have time.... ( I should be studying)

[spoiler]

its quite easy to say something involving maths is correct if you add in random numbers derived from guesswork/hope

PI is an irrational number.

For thrillers sake lets do more calculations

The bowl is said to have had a circumference of thirty cubits and a diameter of ten cubits. The diameter is said to be "from one rim to the other", so this would be the outer diameter; that is, the diameter of the outer mold used to make the bowl.

The outer diameter, from rim to rim, was ten cubits.

The circumference is not specified as being the inner or outer circumference, but since using the outer circumference would give us the "ideal" bowl (with no width or thickness), let's instead use the inner circumference, which also, reasonably, would have been the circumference of the mold used to form the inside of the bowl. That is, we will use the two measurements which were necessary for the casting of the piece.

Using eighteen inches for one cubit, we have the following:

outer diameter: 10 cubits, or 180 inches
outer radius: 5 cubits, or 90 inches
inner circumference: 30 cubits, or 540 inches

To find the "Jewish" or "Bible" value for pi, we need to have the inner radius. Once we have that value, we can plug it into the formula for the circumference and compare with the given circumference value of 540 inches.

Since the thickness of the bowl is given as one handsbreadth, then the inner radius must be:

90 – 4 = 86 inches

Let's do the calculations:

inner radius: 86 inches
inner circumference: 540 inches


The inner radius and the inner circumference.

The circumference formula is C = 2(pi)r, which gives us:

540 = 2(pi)(86)
540 = 172(pi)

Solving, we get pi = 540/172 = 135/43 = 3.1395348837..., or about 3.14.

Isnt 3.14 what the "modern" times use?

[/spoiler]


That's crap, you are pulling those numbers out of your ass, where does it say it's 4 inches thick? where did you get 90 inches from? where? PLz god tell me? I mean it could just be a hole in the ground, its vague, who says it has to have a rim. You can still have a thick bole and take the outer circumference, .
and the original Latin clearly said it was measured around the edge.

Maybe you should ask God.

Read the verse. Thats all I can say....


And learn the original Hebrew if you want to be fully accurate.

I talked to God yesterday and he agrees with me.

[Mister Sandman]

The devil isnt God FYI