Changes to Pergatory

[Zeratul]

My $0.02 - as someone who used perg as a place to build and raid before I got FSS.

The goal of pergatory has always been to provide a 'slower style' of play for anyone wishing it, who is not too powerful to appreciate it

I like your thinking here, but unfortunately for the reasons above this will completely imbalance perg - and make it a realm where the gap between strong and weak is comparatively a lot wider than in main realm (they have been mentioned before).

If you want to make it a slower style of gameplay, reduce the ability to get AT's..... not the ability to mass. I vaguely remember posting this ages ago and was laughed at for being a n00b. But, introducing the ability to gain additional AT's via the market (the trade all 3 MT's option) has 'sped' up the gameplay in that realm immensely. My suggestions:

1) Remove ability to trade 3x MTs for non-transferrable AT's. (OR take away the ability to use non-transferable AT's in perg)
2) Reduce max AT's onhand in perg to 1500 (any AT's currently onhand if it gets implemented get converted to naq on the lext login).
3) Reduce the AT's gained per tick to 2 (or even 1)

This means that:
1) People can still generate enough AT's to be able to mass someone properly.
2) It takes planning and preparation to be able to mass someone
3) Growth is slowed right down due to decrease in AT's available. It will mean that people have to look for that good naq hit, or raid.... (and may even have old players going over there with new accts for the 'glory days' of SGW hehe).

I think you are wrong to exclude lowering the current entry/exit level for perg - it is at a stage where people are building 2-3tril strikes, if that is not 'too powerful' to appreciate a slower style of gameplay then I dont know what is. I'd also like to see it as a hard cap, and not dynamic as it will again allow people to get to a size where they can build huge stats.
IMO:
Max Entry 25mil army
Max Army before booting 32mil.

3) 24hour 'no attack' before being able to enter.

Great idea - but IMO needs to be taken further..... ala Clarkey. No attack, no PPT..... same as going on vac mode "You need a clear conscience to be able to enter that realm"

You have a chance to change pergatory realm and get it to its original intention, I honestly think that the most important updates would be to (most importantly) reduce the ability to gain AT's and then reduce the army size. That way smaller people can appreciate a slower gameplay and build up in a safer environment.

we too think this is well said...

we also agree with that a mass kicking from purgatory might be a good idea at time of updates, but instead of 24hr ppt, a dynamic ppt to prevent exploit by a few users...

Thats one of my biggest pet peeves. To see someone screaming about how "unfair" the gap is, and then go to market and see them selling UU on a regular basis. Jason moves t protect small/new accounts and I can appreciate that, but when small/new accounts refuse to grow simple to get the "benefits" is nothing but abuse.

well said...

we can also see the point in many posts here... there needs to be some way that those who abuse purgatory by staying just below the limit while having huge stats could be taken down... maybe some sort of diagnostic system that checks whether you really grow, and if you do not, it kicks you out?


also, perhaps the no attack thingy (#3) could be expanded? instead of the no ppt for 24 hours as many suggest, rather have a no attack for 24hrs, but where time spent in ppt does not count for those 24 hrs?

perhaps also add that you cannot reenter purgatory anything less than 10 days after you last stayed there, with time spent in vac mode not counting for those days?

the two above paragraphs should properly take care of the instabilities in the naquad... em, update part 3...

[Forum]

ok - here goes...
the update will go ahead as stated, with the following additions, based on user feedback:

1) 24hours no attack, no ppt, no vacation before entering pergatory. (just like vacation)
2) the 60 attack turn (or 4 15 turn attack, or any combination) is a past 24 hour count --not reset at midnight.
3) clarification: the 'slowed increase to army size' applies to all army size limits, like plague, raid, etc... the rate increases at 25% of previous increase rate. It is about 25mil per year (opposed to 100mil per year previously).

the rest remains the same.

[Dizzy]

1) 24hours no attack, no ppt, no vacation before entering pergatory. (just like vacation)

Great update

3) clarification: the 'slowed increase to army size' applies to all army size limits, like plague, raid, etc... the rate increases at 25% of previous increase rate. It is about 25mil per year (opposed to 100mil per year previously).

Good update - that will slow the whole game down a little.

The goal of pergatory has always been to provide a 'slower style' of play for anyone wishing it, who is not too powerful to appreciate it

2) the 60 attack turn (or 4 15 turn attack, or any combination) is a past 24 hour count --not reset at midnight.

Those that are 'too powerful' are the problem with perg - and this update does absolutely nothing to address that problem. To be honest, it makes the problem worse because at least people had a chance at fighting back before through being able to mass. The same reduction in the pace of the game can be achieved whilst also retaining some fairness in the realme by just reducing the ability to gain ATs. This update has created a realm where the gap between those that are strong and weak far outweighs anything ever seen on the main server.

[dark force]

2) the 60 attack turn (or 4 15 turn attack, or any combination) is a past 24 hour count --not reset at midnight.

Those that are 'too powerful' are the problem with perg - and this update does absolutely nothing to address that problem. To be honest, it makes the problem worse because at least people had a chance at fighting back before through being able to mass. The same reduction in the pace of the game can be achieved whilst also retaining some fairness in the realme by just reducing the ability to gain ATs. This update has created a realm where the gap between those that are strong and weak far outweighs anything ever seen on the main server.

well if a couple of people join forces its still possible to mass someone down

[DarThudd]

GOING LIVE MONDAY, NOV 17th, 2008

The goal of pergatory has always been to provide a 'slower style' of play for anyone wishing it, who is not too powerful to appreciate it

This has recently proven to be not the case, when others put their mind to it (congratulations to you).

So -- the following changes are proposed to bring back the initial function intended within pergatory:

1) Glory max per turn to 1, regardless of rank.
2) Slowing the growth of army size limit over time. It will not get lower than it is currently. reduced by 25 growth (does not affect current entry requirements -just how quick those requirements grow)
3) 24hour 'no attack' before being able to enter. (plus similar ppt/vac limits, like vacation is now)
4) max of 4x15turn hits per day, per opponent. Or any combination adding to 60 attack turns used in last 24 hours (day=24hours previous)

It does not seem a huge update, but it should stop 'massing' within pergatory, by players or their mercenary hires, and allow any one player within pergatory to not expect insane amounts of activity against their accounts within a short time frame....which (see the top of this post) was the goal of pergatory.

Comments accepted. go live mon, nov 17...

I like point 3 but the rest, kinda not.

Point 4, Is the turn limit due to the fact that you can't buy turns in purg. Also iv'e tried massing in purg, you run out of turns fast.

Personally i'd implement point 3 and leave the rest, in my mind the alliances in purg are getting powerfull and it will be fun to see the impact on main when they decide to leave.

[Lore]

ok - here goes...
the update will go ahead as stated, with the following additions, based on user feedback:

1) 24hours no attack, no ppt, no vacation before entering pergatory. (just like vacation)
2) the 60 attack turn (or 4 15 turn attack, or any combination) is a past 24 hour count --not reset at midnight.
3) clarification: the 'slowed increase to army size' applies to all army size limits, like plague, raid, etc... the rate increases at 25% of previous increase rate. It is about 25mil per year (opposed to 100mil per year previously).

the rest remains the same.

So now Purg accounts can't be massed and can still gain G&R points????

IDK what to say.

Well, everyone who wants to ascend can now do so without a care in the world. Can sit in purg with untouchable stats a get and maintain first page stats with no concern of losing them.

Well thanks for the entry limits, atleast that will help with the "jumpers" abuse.

Guess this is a take the good with the bad situation. Still don't get the "no massing" part but meh, never been able to be in purg and never will.

[dark force]

if a group of people go together the stat builders in perg can still be massed

[Mathlord]

Would have to be a big group. You figure a massing takes about 500 turns, so you'd need 8 or 9 people to hit someone to mass them down.

On another note, thank you Jason for not implementing this right at market reset. It is much appreciated

[Tarak]

1) Glory max per turn to 1, regardless of rank.
I agree with this. If your strong enough to make more then one a turn. You should be playing with the big boys.

2) Slowing the growth of army size limit over time. It will not get lower than it is currently.
Not exactly sure what you mean here.....

3) 24hour 'no attack' before being able to enter.
No Objections here.

4) max of 4x15turn hits per day, per opponent.
No, no, no. What about all the farms that you can farm 6 times a day? and Raiding would be killed.
NO no no no no no. x.x

I agree entirely...
this #4 is stupid. I don't care about the rest but i would like to see the 60 turn limit removed

[~Cú Chulainn~]

4) max of 4x15turn hits per day, per opponent.


does this mean only you can only use 60 AT per enemy or is it 60 per day?

[Nobody101]

Welll done sgw you effectively made perg redundant........ Unless you can now raid with out using attack turns you have just made growth even harder in perg then it is in norm ( that always helps noobs looking to grow), new players may not be able to even get into perg with out being hit or not ppting for 24 hours so you screwed that to even when i had 50 mill army size i could barely go that long with out getting hit, this whole up date is terrible and its only a result of the super powers whinging in your ears constantly, ummm and the whole point of your attacks thing is to stop people massing, you can still deal a fair bit of damage to a defence with 60 1 turn attacks, just means that no one can AC effectively in here any more which is fine but i think you will perg alliance take most of the top spots on the alliance rankings given that spys are basically untouchable now

Before you did this perg was one of the few... Very few decent changes to this game but you just had to put your foot through it, all the people putting money ito this game didn't like the fact you could grow fast for free i guess

[Antz]

Before you did this perg was one of the few... Very few decent changes to this game but you just had to put your foot through it, all the people putting money ito this game didn't like the fact you could grow fast for free i guess

it's not the growing fast, it's the fact that perg is/has become useless. it was designed for people who aren't willing to/can't put the time into the game that others can and as an introducer for newer players. the final straw for me was seeing a player ranked #1 whilst inside perg.
That wasn't what perg was added for was it?

the other issue entirely is the subject of massings, yes, you're limited to using 60AT's per enemy but that's per player, this update is supposed to help players co-ordinate better and to work as a team, this is where alliances will have the upper hand, especially established ones. It's all well and good creating an alliance to mass someone off the bat, but without proper and extensive planning and tactical thinking there's no way to gain success.

This was the purpose of the update, so that people weren't mindlessly massing in perg, so that raiding was stepped down a notch, to bring just a touch of strategy back to the game.

I personally don't like the attack turn limit but such is the nature of the game, you can't please everyone all the time

[Wolf359]

Makes me laugh that people are getting hung up on the attack limit for all the wrong reasons - reasons which are those that perg was invented to get around in the first place!

perg was meant to be for a different paced game - not for good farming/raiding for accounts that shouldn't be there.

There's plenty of raiding/farming to be had in Main if people can only be bothered to look - but as usual there is a massive state of apathy because it's too difficult. And what people seem to forget is that raiding has screwed the game up in the first place - without it and the unlimited AT combo, perg would never have been required in the first place - double

Antz makes some excellent points in his post - suggest some people re-read it. However, although I agree with his "Rank 1 being a perg player' comment, you have to ask yourself as to whether a perg player can become rank 1 because it is easy to hide and grow in perg, or because Main has gone so far wayward that it is far too easy to drop stats and have massively unbalanced, yet powerful accounts? The safe money's on the latter.

[Tekki]

ok - here goes...
the update will go ahead as stated, with the following additions, based on user feedback:

1) 24hours no attack, no ppt, no vacation before entering pergatory. (just like vacation)
2) the 60 attack turn (or 4 15 turn attack, or any combination) is a past 24 hour count --not reset at midnight.
3) clarification: the 'slowed increase to army size' applies to all army size limits, like plague, raid, etc... the rate increases at 25% of previous increase rate. It is about 25mil per year (opposed to 100mil per year previously).

the rest remains the same.

1. Like that
2. Probably a bit low. Makes planet massing and stuff a bit hard in purgatory
3. Absolutely HATE with a passion.

For anyone really playing the game the buy UU cap and the raid cap are easily reached. For example, see some of the war growth that has been seen in the FUALL/TTF war. People have gone from 23 million to 150 or more. So slowing down all the limits does not really make much sense except to slow everyone down. And I'm not talking for those who buy with $$. This is for anyone really playing and paying attention.

I can understand the need to reduce the growth on the purgatory cap to keep it as a safe haven but by reducing the growth of all accounts I believe will lead to longer term problems. For me to make 25million men... err that takes 50 days just off my RAW up only. 15 days if I include the growth from my planets in there.

Someone gets to the raid limit, they already have a RAW UP of 200k a day (Not that unusual) so that more than takes care of their growth above the raid limit, assuming not many deaths and stuff. So what do they spend their naq on? UP for a bit but then MS, Covert, etc etc. This will mean that those who get there first will get much bigger leaves on all of these things BUT it also puts a limit on how much anyone can grow on these levels due to bank space. Given that there is probably only 5 accounts with a bank space more than 150t, this is going to limit the getting of lev 35 covert, and lv 36,37 (WHICH WILL COME) in time will be completely impossible if accounts are now limited to the 25million growth a year (at cap.)

So I see a rather large disparaty arising between accounts while their size will be similar. And what I will be doing now is selling approximately 1.5million UU a day thus making another trillion naq a day and... well yeah. I will be getting stuff a lot faster.

There is meant to be size differences between the accounts anyway but I'd prefer to see size differences between teh accounts done so that it is possible for others to be growing to eventually catch up.

If anything I'd prefer to see the same limit for raiding, transferring, and plague, with a different limit for purgatory.

This isn't too well written at the moment but while I understand the need to limit the purgatory growth rate, I do not understand the reason to limit all the growth rates given that they are both unrestrictive and restrictive enough atm. (restrictive towards those who have passed them, unrestrictive for those who are really playing, not just coasting along.)

[Nobody101]

I think the army size thing is way to high to access perg and it would be better suited to lower that down to 25 mill to get in and 35 mill to be booted out and then get rid of this attack turn thing, also changes need to be made to that cant be hit for 24 hours before entering, i think more conditions need to be put on that, i can see people making an id list of perg players who they feel don't belong and using 1 turn on them a day to keep them in normal. Instead of being hits on you it should be hits by you so cant attack anyone for 24 hours before going into perg so if some one pops out to mass they cant re enter as soon as they are done thus giving the opponent time to mass back