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John D. Rockefeller wrote:

lone dragon wrote:

John D. Rockefeller wrote:

Rocky wrote:

John D. Rockefeller wrote:

Rocky wrote:

John D. Rockefeller wrote:

Rocky wrote:

John D. Rockefeller wrote:

Rocky wrote:i don't know, if you have a point to make please do.

I was just saying how smoking serves no purpose at all, and on top of that is dangerous and harmful.

hang gliding
motor cycle riding
sky diving

gonna ban those too?

your making the same point again, its a fair point, but how harmful are those really? do they kill 600 thousand people a year because someone around those people does those activities?

I'm sure the death rate for those involved in motor cycle accidents is fairly high

it has a useful purpose, i keep repeating myself, smoking does not have a useful purpose and it is very harmful.

Give me something that is both that which is currently legal? Motorcycles are a form of transport, where fatalities are higher than with a car, yes but not close to fatalities of smoking. Not even close to fatalities caused by just passive smoking. On top of that smoking has no purpose.

smoking can be a form of relaxation and stress relief, so yes it serves a purpose just the same as a motor cycle

there are less hazardous ways to reduce stress, just as there are less hazardous ways to travel

which is why i actually think its up to everyone to choose whether they want to smoke or not, provided they know the consequences, however banning smoking in public areas was the right idea because i don't think others should have to suffer because someone wants to smoke.

so you agree it has a purpose?

yes its purpose is to make money and dive you cancer..

just like cellphones?

yar now we are getting off topic

MEZZANINE wrote:

Rocky wrote:i don't know, if you have a point to make please do.

I was just saying how smoking serves no purpose at all, and on top of that is dangerous and harmful. The same can be said for most illegal drugs, the few illegal drugs that have a purpose are illegal because clearly their usefulness is outweighed by their harmfulness.

The purpose of recreational drugs are no different to leisure activities, people do the things they enjoy, many things people enjoy are not good for them, and many things people enjoy have an element of risk.

As for this 600K deaths number you keep repeating, thats for a LEGAL highly addictive and highly toxic drug called Nicotine. Nothing to do with Cannabis or MDMA, I dont know if your figures are right, but your making my point for me, this LEGAL drug if very harmful whereas many illegal drugs are not harmful.

actually they are just as bad..

MEZZANINE wrote:

Rocky wrote:i don't know, if you have a point to make please do.

I was just saying how smoking serves no purpose at all, and on top of that is dangerous and harmful. The same can be said for most illegal drugs, the few illegal drugs that have a purpose are illegal because clearly their usefulness is outweighed by their harmfulness.

The purpose of recreational drugs are no different to leisure activities, people do the things they enjoy, many things people enjoy are not good for them, and many things people enjoy have an element of risk.

As for this 600K deaths number you keep repeating, thats for a LEGAL highly addictive and highly toxic drug called Nicotine. Nothing to do with Cannabis or MDMA, I dont know if your figures are right, but your making my point for me, this LEGAL drug if very harmful whereas many illegal drugs are not harmful.

What he said.

lone dragon wrote:

MEZZANINE wrote:

Rocky wrote:i don't know, if you have a point to make please do.

I was just saying how smoking serves no purpose at all, and on top of that is dangerous and harmful. The same can be said for most illegal drugs, the few illegal drugs that have a purpose are illegal because clearly their usefulness is outweighed by their harmfulness.

The purpose of recreational drugs are no different to leisure activities, people do the things they enjoy, many things people enjoy are not good for them, and many things people enjoy have an element of risk.

As for this 600K deaths number you keep repeating, thats for a LEGAL highly addictive and highly toxic drug called Nicotine. Nothing to do with Cannabis or MDMA, I dont know if your figures are right, but your making my point for me, this LEGAL drug if very harmful whereas many illegal drugs are not harmful.

actually they are just as bad..

Maybe in your world, but here in the real world cigarettes kill vast numbers of people every year, Ive never heard of anyone being killed by ingesting cannabis, and the handful of highly sensationalised deaths the media jumped all over in the 90s related to MDMA all occurred when mixed with alcohol or a preexisting medical condition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/78451 ... -Nice.html

40,000 deaths a year due to junk food, says health watchdog

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10456430

London pollution 'causes 4,267 early deaths'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... cohol.html

One-in-10 deaths 'caused by drinking alcohol'

http://ezinearticles.com/?Car-Accidents ... id=1812457

The number of people who die each year in car accidents is over 1.5 million, and those injured more than 50 million

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... nt-kill.do

it is also a fact that in Britain, no drug-related deaths due to cannabis have been reported for many years

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 67817.html

chief constable of North Wales, Richard Brunstrom - Ecstasy is a remarkably safe substance it's far safer than aspirin. If you look at the Government's own research into deaths you'll find that Ecstasy, by comparison to many other substances legal and illegal it is comparably a safe substance

this topic is going in circles, the only point im concerned with and still won't change my mind on is that smoking and most recreational illegal drugs are pretty much for leisure only, and serve no purpose but are harmful, therefore i will not go near them. The purpose which you said is to calm down and relax someone is not a valid purpose if you are putting others at risk. If you do it on your own you are harming yourself as well, there are much better ways to relax, i don't want to dictate what you should do to relax, but in my opinion smoking therefore has no purpose.

I will however drive my car and live my life because at least that way i can achieve what i want in my life. Smoking will not help me achieve anything but an early grave, smelly clothes, a smokers cough and a lack of oxygen intake, and hinder my love for playing sports.

Its a personal opinion, i can respect that others might want to smoke, i just don't see why they do it, when you look at it logically.

Removed

Kit-Fox wrote:So in other words what your really saying there is essentially & i'm paraphrasing here;

'I dont approve of what your doing therefore you cant do it'

read the post

Well if I can bring up a point SS made earlier, using a Motorcycle is more dangerous to not only yourself but other drivers. Why should it not be illegal to drive a motorcycle as opposed to a car then? One would assume it's because we value freedom and if you want to drive a motorcycle because it's more fun then you can.

Andrew Carnegie wrote:Well if I can bring up a point SS made earlier, using a Motorcycle is more dangerous to not only yourself but other drivers. Why should it not be illegal to drive a motorcycle as opposed to a car then? One would assume it's because we value freedom and if you want to drive a motorcycle because it's more fun then you can.

mmhmm, just like you risk your life every time you step out of the door each day,(assuming you do...)
its about what is best for you and what we want as a society, clearly smoking has not helped the majority of the society and thats why it was banned in public places. Motorcyclists are tolerated becuase their negative effect on traffic incidents are not seen as a big problem as a whole. Just like driving by car, or going to a concert.

Rocky wrote:

Andrew Carnegie wrote:Well if I can bring up a point SS made earlier, using a Motorcycle is more dangerous to not only yourself but other drivers. Why should it not be illegal to drive a motorcycle as opposed to a car then? One would assume it's because we value freedom and if you want to drive a motorcycle because it's more fun then you can.

mmhmm, just like you risk your life every time you step out of the door each day,(assuming you do...)
its about what is best for you and what we want as a society, clearly smoking has not helped the majority of the society and thats why it was banned in public places. Motorcyclists are tolerated becuase their negative effect on traffic incidents are not seen as a big problem as a whole. Just like driving by car, or going to a concert.

Ya, and I agree. Smoking should not be legal in public buildings (and like I said here it is indeed illegal in all public buildings). I don't see what we disagree on though... I assume you think recreational drugs like Marijuana and Ecstasy should not be legalized? (not talking about Heroin or Cocaine...)

Andrew Carnegie wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Andrew Carnegie wrote:Well if I can bring up a point SS made earlier, using a Motorcycle is more dangerous to not only yourself but other drivers. Why should it not be illegal to drive a motorcycle as opposed to a car then? One would assume it's because we value freedom and if you want to drive a motorcycle because it's more fun then you can.

mmhmm, just like you risk your life every time you step out of the door each day,(assuming you do...)
its about what is best for you and what we want as a society, clearly smoking has not helped the majority of the society and thats why it was banned in public places. Motorcyclists are tolerated becuase their negative effect on traffic incidents are not seen as a big problem as a whole. Just like driving by car, or going to a concert.

Ya, and I agree. Smoking should not be legal in public buildings (and like I said here it is indeed illegal in all public buildings). I don't see what we disagree on though... I assume you think recreational drugs like Marijuana and Ecstasy should not be legalized? (not talking about Heroin or Cocaine...)

i think we disagree on less than we are making out. about marijuana and ecstasy i don't know enough about them.

Rocky wrote:

Andrew Carnegie wrote:Well if I can bring up a point SS made earlier, using a Motorcycle is more dangerous to not only yourself but other drivers. Why should it not be illegal to drive a motorcycle as opposed to a car then? One would assume it's because we value freedom and if you want to drive a motorcycle because it's more fun then you can.

mmhmm, just like you risk your life every time you step out of the door each day,(assuming you do...)
its about what is best for you and what we want as a society, clearly smoking has not helped the majority of the society and thats why it was banned in public places. Motorcyclists are tolerated becuase their negative effect on traffic incidents are not seen as a big problem as a whole. Just like driving by car, or going to a concert.

AGAIN you keep coming back to smoking, smoking is legal, extremely harmful and addictive, but this thread is about currently illegal recreational drugs, most of which dont need to be smoked. If you want to start a topic on smoking, indoors, outdoors, workplace, passive effects etc please do so.

Its great that you enjoy sports, most sports are relatively safe with only a few hundred deaths per year, but sports are not considered relaxing or fun by everyone and in fact many sports have more deaths than Cannabis and MDMA put together.

MEZZANINE wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/78451 ... -Nice.html

40,000 deaths a year due to junk food, says health watchdog

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10456430

London pollution 'causes 4,267 early deaths'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... cohol.html

One-in-10 deaths 'caused by drinking alcohol'

http://ezinearticles.com/?Car-Accidents ... id=1812457

The number of people who die each year in car accidents is over 1.5 million, and those injured more than 50 million

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/arti ... nt-kill.do

it is also a fact that in Britain, no drug-related deaths due to cannabis have been reported for many years

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 67817.html

chief constable of North Wales, Richard Brunstrom - Ecstasy is a remarkably safe substance it's far safer than aspirin. If you look at the Government's own research into deaths you'll find that Ecstasy, by comparison to many other substances legal and illegal it is comparably a safe substance

John D. Rockefeller wrote:number of deaths is relative to the number of users of these illegal substances. It is natural to assume that once legalized more would use and more deaths would occur.

Perhaps, but would the extra deaths due to increase in use outweigh the lives saved by purity, regulation & quality control. Also have you seen the rise in people trying so called 'research chemicals', things like MCAT, MDIA, NRG and various other so called MDMA substitutes, how much damage are people doing to themselves with these new untested drugs because they cant get the real thing, or dont want to break the law ?

As you might have guessed being someone who has tried LSD & Alcohol, been addicted to Nicotine, frequently used Amphetamines, MDMA & Cannabis in my past, and am currently addicted to Caffine ( cant function without by cup of tea in the morning ). I am strongly in favor of MDMA & Cannabis being legalised, and think if any drugs should be illegal Tobacco should be top of the list being one of the most harmful and addictive.

MEZZANINE wrote:

John D. Rockefeller wrote:number of deaths is relative to the number of users of these illegal substances. It is natural to assume that once legalized more would use and more deaths would occur.

Perhaps, but would the extra deaths due to increase in use outweigh the lives saved by purity, regulation & quality control. Also have you seen the rise in people trying so called 'research chemicals', things like MCAT, MDIA, NRG and various other so called MDMA substitutes, how much damage are people doing to themselves with these new untested drugs because they cant get the real thing, or dont want to break the law ?

As you might have guessed being someone who has tried LSD & Alcohol, been addicted to Nicotine, frequently used Amphetamines, MDMA & Cannabis in my past, and am currently addicted to Caffine ( cant function without by cup of tea in the morning ). I am strongly in favor of MDMA & Cannabis being legalised, and think if any drugs should be illegal Tobacco should be top of the list being one of the most harmful and addictive.

DO you realize how much brain damage MDMA does with every hit? Fine its normally a tablet but it instantaneously kills thousands of neurons with every use, I think do what you will in your home but why should others pick up your bill cause you chose Methylenedioxymethamphetamine and cant hardly do anything but splutter anything, the bad side of this is more destructive that you ever wish to see.

lone dragon wrote:

MEZZANINE wrote:

John D. Rockefeller wrote:number of deaths is relative to the number of users of these illegal substances. It is natural to assume that once legalized more would use and more deaths would occur.

Perhaps, but would the extra deaths due to increase in use outweigh the lives saved by purity, regulation & quality control. Also have you seen the rise in people trying so called 'research chemicals', things like MCAT, MDIA, NRG and various other so called MDMA substitutes, how much damage are people doing to themselves with these new untested drugs because they cant get the real thing, or dont want to break the law ?

As you might have guessed being someone who has tried LSD & Alcohol, been addicted to Nicotine, frequently used Amphetamines, MDMA & Cannabis in my past, and am currently addicted to Caffine ( cant function without by cup of tea in the morning ). I am strongly in favor of MDMA & Cannabis being legalised, and think if any drugs should be illegal Tobacco should be top of the list being one of the most harmful and addictive.

DO you realize how much brain damage MDMA does with every hit? Fine its normally a tablet but it instantaneously kills thousands of neurons with every use, I think do what you will in your home but why should others pick up your bill cause you chose Methylenedioxymethamphetamine and cant hardly do anything but splutter anything, the bad side of this is more destructive that you ever wish to see.

The chief constable of North Wales, Richard Brunstrom seems to disagree with the harm you think Es do

Ecstasy is a remarkably safe substance it's far safer than aspirin. If you look at the Government's own research into deaths you'll find that Ecstasy, by comparison to many other substances legal and illegal it is comparably a safe substance

Prof Nutt, the former chairman of the Home Office's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs also seems to disagree with you

Taking ecstasy is no more dangerous than riding a horse, according to the head of the Government's drug advisory body.

MDMA has been used for almost a century, I personally took it from the ages of 16 to 22, for a couple of those party years I took 2 or 3 each weekend, on my week in Ibiza I took 2 every night, yet Im still here, I own my own home ( which I bought at 21 in my clubbing days ), have always worked, rarely get ill ( never anything serious ), never claimed any kind of state benefit in my life, and am physically and mentally fit.

On the other hand, I know people who preferred alcohol and getting drunk, they used to get into lots of fights, drank until they were sick, some are still drinking heavily today and still drink everyday ( although they dont consider themselves addicts ), many dont have jobs, dont own their own homes, and drinking has left them looking very unfit ( dread to think what damage they have done on the inside ).

Frankly MDMA got a bad rep by a sensationalist media who didnt look at the evidence, and many people simply accept the media hype. Anyone who has been there, been or is currently a clubber/raver knows better, as does anyone who looks at the medical evidence.