StarGateWars Forums

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post it in the correct section then, maybe trade feedback, not in a thread about buying resources for £/$ that was made straight after his name was added to the scammers list, As i said post smart.

So if LD had posted the same thing in the trade feedback thread we wouldn't have moronic threads like this? Of course we would... think smart.

Clarkey wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post it in the correct section then, maybe trade feedback, not in a thread about buying resources for £/$ that was made straight after his name was added to the scammers list, As i said post smart.

So if LD had posted the same thing in the trade feedback thread we wouldn't have moronic threads like this? Of course we would... think smart.

We'll never know now will we.

~Thamuz~ wrote:

Clarkey wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post it in the correct section then, maybe trade feedback, not in a thread about buying resources for £/$ that was made straight after his name was added to the scammers list, As i said post smart.

So if LD had posted the same thing in the trade feedback thread we wouldn't have moronic threads like this? Of course we would... think smart.

We'll never know now will we.

If I knew there was a trade feed back thread or where.

I have to say this is the most and longest thread in my SGW thread about me in which I seriously believe we have delved from about my comment into a whole different matter. To be blunt Mezz has had an issue with me directly. This has been addressed and rectified anything in my opinion after that is actually off topic and could be classified as spam on a talk to mods direct section. I believe now this is about mods rights and responsibilities this sounds like this is now a discussion section if someone wants to make it. I serious think this topic is finished and resolved. But this is just my opinion.

lone dragon wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:

Clarkey wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post it in the correct section then, maybe trade feedback, not in a thread about buying resources for £/$ that was made straight after his name was added to the scammers list, As i said post smart.

So if LD had posted the same thing in the trade feedback thread we wouldn't have moronic threads like this? Of course we would... think smart.

We'll never know now will we.

If I knew there was a trade feed back thread or where.

I have to say this is the most and longest thread in my SGW thread about me in which I seriously believe we have delved from about my comment into a whole different matter. To be blunt Mezz has had an issue with me directly. This has been addressed and rectified anything in my opinion after that is actually off topic and could be classified as spam on a talk to mods direct section. I believe now this is about mods rights and responsibilities this sounds like this is now a discussion section if someone wants to make it. I serious think this topic is finished and resolved. But this is just my opinion.

I think your 100% right mate, its good things have been resolved from your end and this is more of a discussion now, the only reason your name keeps coming up LD is because its the freshest thing in our minds and you really shouldn't upset yourself about it, we are after all "only human" and are all capable of making mistakes and the majority if not all have made them in the past and will make them again.

This isn't a witch hunt, well its not from my end at least and most of us here posting are adults and this thread has evolved from how it started and hopefully we can all put our points across in an adult way without trying to upset or put anyone down. I think the majority of this thread has been quite civil.

MEZZANINE wrote:http://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=185751

How can this guy be a mod if he does things like this ???

1st the Topic is in the wrong section ( should be in $$$ trades )

2nd Harch currently has 3 open scam reports against him which Lone Dragon posted in so is aware of

3rd This Mods post makes it look like a genuine and trustworthy trader



Shouldn't trade posts from known scammers be deleted by mods when spotted, certainly not endorsed by them ????

Ive traded many times with HARCH, Always did good bizness with me and my m8's

~Thamuz~ wrote:Did i say anything about friends? Its a bit different telling your friends about something when your in uniform to telling a complete stranger which the majority of us are on these forums. Post smart is all thats being asked is that such a biggie?

Does it need to be about friends? No. No it doesn't. Simple fact, LD made a post about his experience. He did NOT even REMOTELY instruct ANYONE to trade with Harchester.

My point still stands that the police analogy is complete garbage as you all have presented it, and your inability to separate fact from fiction even further undermines your ridiculously flimsy (at best) argument.

Using simple common sense and logic is all that is being asked, is THAT such a biggie?

~soul

Solus wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:Did i say anything about friends? Its a bit different telling your friends about something when your in uniform to telling a complete stranger which the majority of us are on these forums. Post smart is all thats being asked is that such a biggie?

Does it need to be about friends? No. No it doesn't. Simple fact, LD made a post about his experience. He did NOT even REMOTELY instruct ANYONE to trade with Harchester.

My point still stands that the police analogy is complete garbage as you all have presented it, and your inability to separate fact from fiction even further undermines your ridiculously flimsy (at best) argument.

Using simple common sense and logic is all that is being asked, is THAT such a biggie?

~soul

And that my friend is your opinion not fact at all, as was mine, and of course its different wether its a friend telling you or a complete stranger FACT, and no where in my post did i try and belittle or put you down as you did to me, my point still stands and its you that needs to rethink what you just wrote coz to me that is complete garbage,

And please point to me where i said that LD's post endorsed or intructed anyone to do anything??? all i said that from a neutral stand point someone with no experiance with LD would listen and take note to what he says because of the uniform he's got on everytime he posts rather than a post from a "normal" user without the coloured name, now that is FACT.

~Thamuz~ wrote:And that my friend is your opinion not fact at all,

show me the post then. if you knew the material in question, you would know it was purely about his experience in trading with Harchester. try again.

~Thamuz~ wrote:...as was mine, and of course its different wether its a friend telling you or a complete stranger

what someone says from a personal recommendation does not constitute an order. period. whether or not the police officer was in uniform, or if LD was posting with a mod account has NO bearing on this whatsoever.

~Thamuz~ wrote:...and no where in my post did i try and belittle or put you down as you did to me...

ahem...

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post smart is all thats being asked is that such a biggie?

i'll concede that the comment about common sense may have been a tad belittling, but it was no worse than your comment.

~Thamuz~ wrote:my point still stands and its you that needs to rethink what you just wrote coz to me that is complete garbage, And please point to me where i said that LD's post endorsed or intructed anyone to do anything???

I didnt say you did. if you'll read my post again, I said that your assertions that someone would view personal opinion or experience as orders based on what color the name is, or if theyre in uniform, are complete garbage.

~Thamuz~ wrote:all i said that from a neutral stand point someone with no experiance with LD would listen and take note to what he says because of the uniform he's got on everytime he posts rather than a post from a "normal" user without the coloured name, now that is FACT.

true, they might pay attention to what he says. but thats because he's a mod. and as has been said, statements about personal experiences do not mean endorsements etc. the crux of this whole thread was people seemed to (wrongly) associate experience with instruction, which has been said, is purely garbage. its wrong.

'i liked x' does not equal 'you must do x'. (fact.)

~soul

That made absolutely no sense whatsoever, Soul.
Back to the drawing table.

lone dragon wrote:To be blunt Mezz has had an issue with me directly.

No I didnt. I dont even know you. I had & still have a issue with scammers & thieves, I have an issue with any post that appears to endorse a scammer, bad enough for a user to do it, far worse for a mod since their words carry more weight.

Jedi~Tank wrote:Ive traded many times with HARCH, Always did good bizness with me and my m8's

Yeah we know, he boasted about that amounts he sold to DDE hence why we laugh at you when you claim not to be s big $pender and farm for your upgrades

Clarkey wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post it in the correct section then, maybe trade feedback, not in a thread about buying resources for £/$ that was made straight after his name was added to the scammers list, As i said post smart.

So if LD had posted the same thing in the trade feedback thread we wouldn't have moronic threads like this? Of course we would... think smart.

If it had been in a feedback thread I wouldnt have noticed it, but people looking to sell naq may have, and they may have been scammed after reading it thinking Harch was a safe person to trade with.

Solus wrote:the police analogy is complete nonsense. irrelevant. if you really want to equate this to a member of the police force, then do it right.

An off duty police officer goes into a supermarket he doesn't regularly visit on the way home from his shift. he's pleasantly surprised at their low prices and their customer service. Nothing looks suspicious or anything of the sort. He goes home and tells his friends later about the place, according to his experience. in no way has he instructed anyone to go there. in no way has he given the place an official recommendation or an all clear from a business ethics comittee.

There was nothing wrong with LD's post. There was no need for him to remove it.

~soul

Harch is no shop, a better analogy would be a policeman buying/selling to a known criminal then telling random people in the street that he had a good deal from the criminal thereby encouraging them to trade with the criminal.

As for off duty, if you see an off duty police officer you dont know they are a police officer, a mod is always recognisable in forum on or off duty.




This all seems like argument for arguments sake now, must be the 3rd or 4th time Ive said this. The post was removed, the problem sorted, this should have been closed pages back.

All my reply's and new text is highlighted in Red.

Solus wrote:

~Thamuz~ wrote:And that my friend is your opinion not fact at all,

show me the post then. if you knew the material in question, you would know it was purely about his experience in trading with Harchester. try again.
The post has been deleted so i can't show you the material.

~Thamuz~ wrote:...as was mine, and of course its different wether its a friend telling you or a complete stranger

what someone says from a personal recommendation does not constitute an order. period. whether or not the police officer was in uniform, or if LD was posting with a mod account has NO bearing on this whatsoever.
I didn't say it constitutes as an order i said that as he was posting and his names in the mod colour people would take more notice of it than if it was posted by a normal user.

~Thamuz~ wrote:...and no where in my post did i try and belittle or put you down as you did to me...

ahem...

~Thamuz~ wrote:Post smart is all thats being asked is that such a biggie?

i'll concede that the comment about common sense may have been a tad belittling, but it was no worse than your comment.
My comment was a broad statement that wasn't singling anyone out infact it covered everyone including me, where as yours was aimed and directed at me.

~Thamuz~ wrote:my point still stands and its you that needs to rethink what you just wrote coz to me that is complete garbage, And please point to me where i said that LD's post endorsed or intructed anyone to do anything???

I didnt say you did. if you'll read my post again, I said that your assertions that someone would view personal opinion or experience as orders based on what color the name is, or if theyre in uniform, are complete garbage.
As i've said i didn't say it constituted as an order i said that someone would take more notice of what was written by a mod because of there coloured name rather than by a normal user.

~Thamuz~ wrote:all i said that from a neutral stand point someone with no experiance with LD would listen and take note to what he says because of the uniform he's got on everytime he posts rather than a post from a "normal" user without the coloured name, now that is FACT.

true, they might pay attention to what he says. but thats because he's a mod. and as has been said, statements about personal experiences do not mean endorsements etc. the crux of this whole thread was people seemed to (wrongly) associate experience with instruction, which has been said, is purely garbage. its wrong.
And i believe there's a place on the forum for comments like that, Trade feedback is there especially for these kind of comments not in a thread that was purely made because harch was put on the blacklisted traders and made the post for more attention. All that was needed in that thread was people wanting to sell resources, harches reply and maybe someone warning said user that alot of people have had bad trades in the past, not a mod wearing his uniform saying he had a good trade wether he wrote in mod colour or not. In any kind of job in the world if your wearing there uniform it singles you out working for a company and your representing it.

'i liked x' does not equal 'you must do x'. (fact.)
As i've said a few times already i haven't said that there was an order involved just normal users would see it as more of an endorsement that he's fine to trade with than if a normal user had posted.
~soul

All you keep coming back with is that i said he ordered someone to do something, i think we can say now i did not.
There was this

~Thamuz~ wrote:

[BoT] Jack wrote:

Juliette wrote:How do you go from two people overreacting at each other (LD & Mezz) to a witch hunt against the mod team?
Makes no sense.

It is a legitimate concern when phrased properly. And yes, the misconception that this is the fault of mods is an easy bandwagon to jump on to..

A witch hunt on the part of Mezz. I'm not just taking into account this one thread, but his words in the others as well.

And no, this is not a valid concern. We are users first, mods second. As a user, LD had a positive experience in trading with Harch, then reported that experience as a user. His post was short and concise. Not once did he attempt to use his moderator status to help boast Harch's reputation, he did not post as a mod, he did not say anything like "Harch is the most trustworthy trader of all time, take my word for it, I'm a mod and would never lie."

As for there being "three on going cases involving Harch scamming"... I'm pretty sure there was a time when someone thought I was a scammer and tried to report me as such. Should all mods have been barred from reinforcing my reputation as a trustworthy trader?

But the coloured name that marks you as out as a mod changes everything. its always there wether your posting as a mod or posting as a normal user, call it your uniform if you will, i'd take more notice of someone in a police uniform on his way home after a work telling me to do or not to do something then i would the same person out of that uniform telling me excactly the same thing.
And for the Record i don't think LD should lose his position, just to be more careful in the future.

Then this

[BoT] Jack wrote:He did not tell anyone to do anything. He reported his experience dealing with said trader.

Then i wrote this to clear things up as i didn't mean the police officer was ordering anyone i used the word telling in the context of telling a story.

[BoT] Jack wrote:He did not tell anyone to do anything. He reported his experience dealing with said trader.

~Thamuz~ wrote:Which carries more weight because of the uniform he wears than it would a normal user, this is what you all (mods) need to understand when you post here you are always in uniform wether you post in your mod colour or not.

So can we please get past ordering? To sum it up, if your in uniform(Mod name being coloured) and you make a post then it carries more weight than a person out of uniform(normal users), All mods are always in uniform and alot of the newer forum users look to you lot for guidance wether you post in mod colour or not. ~T~

I've just reread my post and it seems i did write about the police officer telling as in an order, wasn't the point i was trying to make but i think we all know what i meant now. ~T~ Can admit when he is wrong, can you?

Did Lone Dragon even know Harch was accused of scamming?

I'll say it again. The only way this complaint would be valid is if LD knowingly and willingly participated in a conspiracy to artificially boost Harch's reputation in order to bring in more victims.

But that's clearly not what happened, hell he may not have even known Harch was accused of scamming.

[BoT] Jack wrote:Did Lone Dragon even know Harch was accused of scamming?
I'll say it again. The only way this complaint would be valid is if LD knowingly and willingly participated in a conspiracy to artificially boost Harch's reputation in order to bring in more victims.
But that's clearly not what happened, hell he may not have even known Harch was accused of scamming.

This isn't about LD, Harchester or Mezzanine anymore, Black One.

Juliette wrote:

[BoT] Jack wrote:Did Lone Dragon even know Harch was accused of scamming?
I'll say it again. The only way this complaint would be valid is if LD knowingly and willingly participated in a conspiracy to artificially boost Harch's reputation in order to bring in more victims.
But that's clearly not what happened, hell he may not have even known Harch was accused of scamming.

This isn't about LD, Harchester or Mezzanine anymore, Black One.

^ what she said, its just a discussion now jack, we are trying to keep it civil without name calling and everyone trying to get there point across, the names used are just used for discussion purposes and bear no ill will toward anyone that is mentioned. ~T~

~Thamuz~ wrote:

Juliette wrote:

[BoT] Jack wrote:Did Lone Dragon even know Harch was accused of scamming?
I'll say it again. The only way this complaint would be valid is if LD knowingly and willingly participated in a conspiracy to artificially boost Harch's reputation in order to bring in more victims.
But that's clearly not what happened, hell he may not have even known Harch was accused of scamming.

This isn't about LD, Harchester or Mezzanine anymore, Black One.

^ what she said, its just a discussion now jack, we are trying to keep it civil without name calling and everyone trying to get there point across, the names used are just used for discussion purposes and bear no ill will toward anyone that is mentioned. ~T~

I can assure you that not everyone that reads posts made by coloured names thinks Mod. The main time people think Mod when seeing a coloured name posting a message is when they want to kick up a stink like this.