StarGateWars Forums

~Tziki~ wrote:right so average army of actives is 13b..
leave that with me then.

any raw sample data on DMU farmed over 14 days without trading it etc? can try get some friends to provide some from their ME over the next couple weeks if not.

Trading cannot be explicitly defined, there's no way to differentiate between someone selling and someone getting a good hit, without going into some massive hunt for info.
I can tell you the top 4 have attacked....
452: 5870
681: 9847
173: 2595
575: 8611
That many times : how many turns used completely.

That is to say, the top one has got 303 quad ish in 2 weeks (see top 10), using 5870 turns. I.e they averaged 780 trill per 15 AT hit. Next one down averaged 450 t per hit. 1.6 quad per hit, 440 t per hit.
Chances are 3rd was a trader, or likes his ppt collection, or is in a war.

If you plan on collecting sample data, remove all NAP's, DRA's bla bla bla and see how you go.

Just go inactive for a year... when u come back u will have what u want right? Lol with that being said. It is a prob sol.

Heheh, get rid of app conversion to life force all together and this 'problem' will go away

APP to Expanse or (CEF) would be something I would be interested in.

Sol wrote:

~Tziki~ wrote:right so average army of actives is 13b..
leave that with me then.

any raw sample data on DMU farmed over 14 days without trading it etc? can try get some friends to provide some from their ME over the next couple weeks if not.

Trading cannot be explicitly defined, there's no way to differentiate between someone selling and someone getting a good hit, without going into some massive hunt for info.
I can tell you the top 4 have attacked....
452: 5870
681: 9847
173: 2595
575: 8611
That many times : how many turns used completely.

That is to say, the top one has got 303 quad ish in 2 weeks (see top 10), using 5870 turns. I.e they averaged 780 trill per 15 AT hit. Next one down averaged 450 t per hit. 1.6 quad per hit, 440 t per hit.
Chances are 3rd was a trader, or likes his ppt collection, or is in a war.

If you plan on collecting sample data, remove all NAP's, DRA's bla bla bla and see how you go.

Thats based on the TOP people, this i supposed to be based on average as the top people arent playing like the average player and they cant be counted on as not trading dmu or using ppt drops which not everyone can do.

looking to get stats on the average player to show how this change is needed. To much focus on the top, not enough on the other 90% of players

~Tziki~ wrote:

Sol wrote:

~Tziki~ wrote:right so average army of actives is 13b..
leave that with me then.

any raw sample data on DMU farmed over 14 days without trading it etc? can try get some friends to provide some from their ME over the next couple weeks if not.

Trading cannot be explicitly defined, there's no way to differentiate between someone selling and someone getting a good hit, without going into some massive hunt for info.
I can tell you the top 4 have attacked....
452: 5870
681: 9847
173: 2595
575: 8611
That many times : how many turns used completely.

That is to say, the top one has got 303 quad ish in 2 weeks (see top 10), using 5870 turns. I.e they averaged 780 trill per 15 AT hit. Next one down averaged 450 t per hit. 1.6 quad per hit, 440 t per hit.
Chances are 3rd was a trader, or likes his ppt collection, or is in a war.

If you plan on collecting sample data, remove all NAP's, DRA's bla bla bla and see how you go.

Thats based on the TOP people, this i supposed to be based on average as the top people arent playing like the average player and they cant be counted on as not trading dmu or using ppt drops which not everyone can do.

Why?
You seem to be focussing on a different issue, not the I NEEDZ MORE LFS FROM APPZ.

Borg wrote:I already told that several times. If I were to start playing ascended now I wouldn't bother. I had one of biggest accounts on ascended right after it was changed. When I returned after about 2 years break I was no match for top players and even after more then a year of regular farming I am still far away. Even though for many months I was #1 farmer as it came out when the rankings were given.
I made 3 new ascensions which were added during my break and only from those my APP are already converting more than a year and will still take 3 more months to finish. So how long it takes if somebody has all 23 ascensions to make? It's nonsense..
And I don't buy that crap that if it is different new players will quickly become too strong. It would simply let them start playing ascended right away instead of spending hours to look for account they could hit for some ridiculous DMU in first months of play. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is how I see it.

just another insight into it.



Edit: Just an update ive worked out some maths on the situation and im just collecting some evidence to show for it. This is all based on proving that even with more APP + farming people wont get a to much more DMU worth than those just farming, and those just farming with the extra AT's can still do better.

ive worked it out that with SoL's average of 250t per hit, for the 12k AT's you generate with the refil button. Thats 200q every 14 days

With the APP you would get 230q

thats a difference of 3t LF in 14 days. hardly a big advantage, nor reason to keep it as it is. It clearly isnt providing much if any benefit to those ascending.


however...


17/02/2014
1 **Anonymous** TOLAH 381,522,743,517,342,976
2 **Anonymous** INDU 366,416,878,070,349,312
3 **Anonymous** ORI 338,215,934,718,421,696
4 **Anonymous** INDU 298,428,914,191,989,952
5 **Anonymous** INDU 289,006,997,962,610,624

06/03/2014
1 **Anonymous** INDU 396,803,104,926,930,496
2 **Anonymous** INDU 355,211,128,884,008,320
3 **Anonymous** TOLAH 283,321,705,433,180,864
4 **Anonymous** ORI 256,082,330,783,316,992
5 **Anonymous** ORI 251,033,329,347,974,400


People are farming more than 200t per 14 days,
which means its still easy to out farm those even with APP conversion
therefore... conversion is too slow and not competitive, let alone overly beneficial as you believe SoL.

SO... seems there some issues here
well...i've got a suggestion
That no ones going to like
don't change the APP's cause i can't get more!

Unless i can

So my suggestion is this
Infusions from Main.
Current rates. Up to a Max naq value of 1-5 quad naq straight conversion to APP. Requirement is that it takes 20,000 glory points + 6-12 market turns to do this infusion, ( roughly 83 days at 5 GP and no Nox, 100 days if the player is on Nox's)
Then change your APP's to be 10% per month straight conversion with your normal leakage.
It will take someone still about 2 years to get all their APP, ( 0.9^24)= about 0.07 will be remaining

High Empty wrote:SO... seems there some issues here
well...i've got a suggestion
That no ones going to like
don't change the APP's cause i can't get more!

Unless i can

So my suggestion is this
Infusions from Main.
Current rates. Up to a Max naq value of 1-5 quad naq straight conversion to APP. Requirement is that it takes 20,000 glory points + 6-12 market turns to do this infusion, ( roughly 83 days at 5 GP and no Nox, 100 days if the player is on Nox's)
Then change your APP's to be 10% per month straight conversion with your normal leakage.
It will take someone still about 2 years to get all their APP, ( 0.9^24)= about 0.07 will be remaining

so long story short, make GnR grant you APP to some level of that which you would obtain when ascending? so as to allow those at unknown to still generate some level of APP aswell?

not sure naq would be the best way to do it, but general GnR could work, naturally $$ spenders get GnR easier by racing for rank 1, but it also brings a level of importance back to rank system...

though thats a slightly different issue, but coupled with speeding this current APP conversion up it could make it balanced all round for everyone

so then someone could ascend then descend over and over again, untill they would be getting LF cache like mad till the end of time... boom monster account, if your still alive to play it...

if im not mistaken you cant descend yourself anymore? or rather you can become a daimon but once you do it you cant ascend again.

really? i will stay away from that button then... lol

~Tziki~ wrote:ive worked it out that with SoL's average of 250t per hit, for the 12k AT's you generate with the refil button. Thats 200q every 14 days

With the APP you would get 230q

thats a difference of 3t LF in 14 days. hardly a big advantage, nor reason to keep it as it is. It clearly isnt providing much if any benefit to those ascending.

Foreword, I haven't been specifically ignoring your response, but due to an unfortunate coupling of switching over ISPs and lack of time, I haven't been able to reply or fully read the responses.

So. We can take a standard measure of AT production to be 2 weeks, 2 full refills, and the ability to buy the extra AT's. Now, this is at an unnatural cost because the only way you can get the extra at's @ 2 week intervals is with GnR AND there is no way you can drop a full refill in an instance and yield the same quality and quantity farm run. But I digress. Moving on, 15 AT hits @ 250 t per hit renders 200 quad.
On the other side of the coin we will take the standard average planets based on APP generated per turn, about 700 bill per day, and the 8k turns refilled over 2 weeks.
That is to say a yield of 9.8 trill life force and 133.3 quad i.e 231 quad total, as you calculated.
(not that I'm trying to find an error in your calc's but I'm showing your glorious assumptions).
Yes there is a 30 quad discrepancy at this level.

~Tziki~ wrote: however...


17/02/2014
1 **Anonymous** TOLAH 381,522,743,517,342,976
2 **Anonymous** INDU 366,416,878,070,349,312
3 **Anonymous** ORI 338,215,934,718,421,696
4 **Anonymous** INDU 298,428,914,191,989,952
5 **Anonymous** INDU 289,006,997,962,610,624

06/03/2014
1 **Anonymous** INDU 396,803,104,926,930,496
2 **Anonymous** INDU 355,211,128,884,008,320
3 **Anonymous** TOLAH 283,321,705,433,180,864
4 **Anonymous** ORI 256,082,330,783,316,992
5 **Anonymous** ORI 251,033,329,347,974,400


People are farming more than 200t per 14 days,
which means its still easy to out farm those even with APP conversion
therefore... conversion is too slow and not competitive, let alone overly beneficial as you believe SoL.

Interesting basis, let me ream out a few assumptions you made on that note:
1. You assumed every one of those players had the average planet count, they in fact don't, and it's upwards of 16 bill, ergo more LF-APP converted.
2. As your obviously aware of the list because you copied and pasted the top 5, you will note that (currently) everyone below the top 8 is actually under the 200 quad. So my assumption of 250 t was incorrect and should be lower. Funnily enough the average is 38.49 quad per 2 weeks for farmers, top 100 farmers only average 89.76 quad.
That being said if you expect everyone that generates APP to be better off than the top 5 actives farmers then you have to be joking.

I could go on about the grand assumptions you made but I won't, because, well, I can't be bothered and your point is still invalid.

YOU JUST GOT SOL-ED!

Your giving me examples of people who are clearly not active and barely give a **Filtered**, and comparing them to my examples of those that are active.

you point is invalid not mine.

the whole point of this is to prove the active players are still more than able to stay ahead just by farming in comparison to those who get an extra 10q worth of LFC a day.. which a lot dont as you said yourself, the average only get 7q worth.

those farming 80q in 14 days... thats their fault for being so damn lazy if someone over takes them. Those who care for their accounts will be around the top 50 in farmed DMU.

Not entirely sure what your saying about the 2 week interval with the AT's button. but its more than possible that people use this button.

Then we can throw in using NGM ascended accounts to farm for the main account, which again if not using APP conversion can widen the gap even further between a farming acc with 24k AT's every 14 (double because of NG acc) days compared to a 20k AT's APP converting acc + NG acc.

and this is all provided your farming naturally. many of the accounts using app conversion arent as readily able to farm descentions either due to size or lack of ToC strength to descend. Which again puts already established accounts ahead... so they have absolutely no claim towards speeding it up being unfair.


So... rather than me giving you countless reasons why this should happen, along with a majority vote from the players of ascended to prove that 75% or so of the players that read this thread are able to see the logic behind it...
why dont you tell us why this isnt worth it? both logically and with numbers. If nothing else the obvious desire from the majority of voters to change it should be inspiration enough. unhappy users arent a good way to progress.