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Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:16 am
by Wolf359
Seker wrote:The limiting turns through the ingame market wont solve anything. For example with the current rates you can only get 3240 turns by using your market turns and with you generating 3 turns a turn it increases your total weekly possible turns to 4248. This is around 283, 15 turn attacks each week. The problem that I will go with you on limiting the market is the black market. But I do not think the limiting of all aspects of the market is a good idea. By canceling out the Black market or limiting it you will severely limit the turns by limiting all the aspect you will further choke the life out of the game. I also have a problem with limiting the turns since the people that have been playing for awhile were able to use the market to get buy these turns which you are securing their benefit by limiting them now since they have already raiding or stolen naq with these turns. So the only fair thing to do if you limit the amount of turns is to do a massive plague to whole server to remove that bonus in my opinion. I have sure that the admin team has the stats for each account of how many turns each person has bought and can plague each account in regard to how many turns were bought. Now if they do this then they should also refund these people with cash since they bought them with real money.


I think you missed the main point - the talk about limiting AT is to limit them altogether - so that the only AT in the game are those produced by the players - so it also limits the AT on the black market.

And yes, the older bigger players will have been able to use the market in the past - but you can also argue that for the really old players it was unfair on them when these changes came in because they had already lost countless thousands of UU through war, and it was a lot harder for them to build themselves up - then along come these updates and all of a sudden it's easy.

But the older players are not totally advantaged by introducing a lack of AT: Older players would no longer be able to attack/raid people with abandon, because a) they would no longer have an endless supply of turns, so would have to consider how they use them carefully, and b) because they no longer have an endless supply of turns, they would be more susceptible to attack as they currently are as they would not be able to threaten mass retaliation - therefore a group of well organised smaller players could do them some serious damage.

And we are not talking about removing the turns in isolation - other things would have to be done in tandem - which again have been stated in this and other threads.

Teal'auc wrote:It's matter of opinion mate... I personally prefer fun in this game rather than waiting for AT's. Strategy would be nice, but not at the cost of fun imho...Of course I remember when turns were limited and I said it on many ocassions that I like it the way it is now better. It's always about what people prefer/want, and our opinions differ.



Teal'auc


That's fair enough! Personally, I do not see the fun in buying lots of AT, raid, raid, raid, mass, mass, mass, buying lots of AT - ad infinitum.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:18 am
by TacticalCommander
I agree it would be better and was a little better before limitless AT's came out, but now, I don't think its fair to restrict new player growth into big players when alot of other people before them had an unlimited supply of AT to use to raid. With restricted AT's, sure farms/raids would become better per 15 turn attack, but not enough.

Right now, my major source of growth is through using large Quantities of AT, without that, will set me back by months....well actually it might balance out depending on how much UU prices rise and how much I can sell.

Honestly, building a large army size for income just sounds boring, yep trained more miners, yep generating naq....I like the thrill of farming and not knowing if today I'll get 20bil hit or 100bil, or find a raid with 100k UU, adds excitement for me, certainly more than sold 2k AT today for 100bil naq.

TC

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:29 am
by Wolf359
TacticalCommander wrote:I agree it would be better and was a little better before limitless AT's came out, but now, I don't think its fair to restrict new player growth into big players when alot of other people before them had an unlimited supply of AT to use to raid. With restricted AT's, sure farms/raids would become better per 15 turn attack, but not enough.

Right now, my major source of growth is through using large Quantities of AT, without that, will set me back by months....well actually it might balance out depending on how much UU prices rise and how much I can sell.

Honestly, building a large army size for income just sounds boring, yep trained more miners, yep generating naq....I like the thrill of farming and not knowing if today I'll get 20bil hit or 100bil, or find a raid with 100k UU, adds excitement for me, certainly more than sold 2k AT today for 100bil naq.

TC


Very true mate - and I agree - which is why I have suggested an exponential reduction of peoples armies - with any loss in army size etc being converted into a naq equivalent. This would ensure that those with the biggest armies keep the biggest armies, but would reduce the gap. They would however, have a huge stash of protected naq which they could then re-invest into whatever they wanted - including making their army bigger - whether buying UU or investing in UP. Everyone would still be, relatively, in the same posiiton they are now - but with smaller armies. I know people will complain - especially those who make a lot of money from the game - and those who have invested a lot of money in the game (but after all - it is a free to play game, with no financial guarantees).

Personally I don't see the thrill in farming or raiding to grow your army - that isn't what the game is about - it is about war and how you prepare for war (at least it's meant to be) (hence it's name) - except that it hasn't been about war for some time. The wars these days are meaningless as they all revolve around who can buy the most ATs - wow what skill!

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:47 am
by TacticalCommander
Personally, I'm still not happy with all the recent updates is what I believe is killing SGW. All I've seen for months on end are tweaks, admitly some like Purgatory and Ascension are very BIG game changing tweaks, but none the less tweaks. Lifer Suicide? thats not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the old days when Updates where unique techs were first introduced, or MotherShips. I want those kind of updates again, the creative ones that changed the game just enough to keep it fun an interesting.

Sure updates like that only benefit the big at first, but look at MS, 2 years it was just a something the big could afford, going to something that CO's would buy for their officers, and now doesn't matter how big you are, one 15 turn attack will get you 3 or 4 times the amount to buy a MS.

Its why I like my modified ZPM ajusted idea
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=81208&p=1094914#p1094914
Help give something for the game to work towards again, besides building a large army size.

i suppose its the loss of updates like these and people became more concerned with building a large army size that encourage the raid and limitless AT in the first place....

TC

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:49 am
by Munchy
I see the topic of getting rid of artificially produced turns on the market is here again. The best topic(in my opinion) upon which this has been discussed is here https://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=53717&st=0&sk=t&sd=a A few things have changed since then, but not much. My opinion is the same now as it was then.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:09 pm
by Wolf359
TacticalCommander wrote:Personally, I'm still not happy with all the recent updates is what I believe is killing SGW. All I've seen for months on end are tweaks, admitly some like Purgatory and Ascension are very BIG game changing tweaks, but none the less tweaks. Lifer Suicide? thats not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the old days when Updates where unique techs were first introduced, or MotherShips. I want those kind of updates again, the creative ones that changed the game just enough to keep it fun an interesting.

Sure updates like that only benefit the big at first, but look at MS, 2 years it was just a something the big could afford, going to something that CO's would buy for their officers, and now doesn't matter how big you are, one 15 turn attack will get you 3 or 4 times the amount to buy a MS.

Its why I like my modified ZPM ajusted idea
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=81208&p=1094914#p1094914
Help give something for the game to work towards again, besides building a large army size.

i suppose its the loss of updates like these and people became more concerned with building a large army size that encourage the raid and limitless AT in the first place....

TC


Indeed - the trouble is - a lot of the more recent tweaks are to try and correct things that have gone wrong as a result of those updates that were put in many moons ago. The only trouble is, they don't correct them - or if they do they only do it for the short term, then something else needs to be done! It's a vicious circle that has no easy solution. It does however have a solution, but people will not like it - but they won't like it for the wrong reasons!

Munchy wrote:I see the topic of getting rid of artificially produced turns on the market is here again. The best topic(in my opinion) upon which this has been discussed is here viewtopic.php?f=13&t=53717&st=0&sk=t&sd=a A few things have changed since then, but not much. My opinion is the same now as it was then.


heh, heh - I'd forgotten about that one! My stance now is pretty much the same as my opening gambit in that thread - although I now realise that as well as simply removing AT, other changes would have to be made.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:51 pm
by [KMA]Avenger
i say we let "Stargate Wars" die and the game be renamed to...

"Stargate Who Can Raid The Most Army So They Can Catch upto The Big Guys Coz Its Not Fair That i Started Playing This Game 2 Weeks Ago And i Don't Have 100 Mill Army yet Wars" (end sarcasm)

i know its a bit of a mouthful but thats what some people seem to be asking for by advocating raiding and limitless attack. so, the name of the game needs to change to better reflect what type of game this is!

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:11 pm
by reborn
lol i like it but how about this

Stargate were u grow to 350 mil army size and then thats it all u can then do is untrain your miners and place it on stats otherwise u will b farmed so this way u will have no income Wars


btw less than 24hrs and i do believe thats another 1% dropped on ascension same thing is happening on main just i cant b assed to do the % for that

edit srry make that almost 2% in less than 24hrs

Note: When your total realm size exceeds 2 billion planets, your rate of growth slows...
You are currently growing at 47.02 percent of full capacity...This affects just new planet finds, not current planets.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:44 pm
by semper
Well..this topic has indeed come on. I think it was inevitable that the day would come when the game would become boring, then the updates would not sate, so it was allowed to grow out of control. Whats the point in debating all of this?

I doubt anything that has been said in this post will ultimately make any difference, Jason is gonna do what he wants with the game, taking it in the direction he can to make sure its easy for the small players to catch up and the big players to grow. So basically with the one hand (the former) he is going to get new players into a game they will actually be able to play and he will obviously get more money from such, and in the other hand he is going to keep the big players content and as silent as a dog with a bone, watching their hundreds of millions of uu go up and up. Finally selling their naq and uu like walking markets for the younger players, keeping the youngens in the game to spend more $$.

All the while were sitting happily in the forums moaning at a brick wall about what we think should be done.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:45 pm
by Teal'auc of the Void
Well, accusing Jason of making the game just solely for $$ is harsh... it's not the way what Jason wants.



Teal'auc

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:47 pm
by semper
Teal'auc of the Tok'ra wrote:Well, accusing Jason of making the game just solely for $$ is harsh... it's not the way what Jason wants.



Teal'auc


Jason is human the last I knew... $$ may not be the SOLE goal, but its gotta be the main goal, otherwise its bad business.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 3:50 pm
by Teal'auc of the Void
Semper wrote:Jason is human the last I knew... $$ may not be the SOLE goal, but its gotta be the main goal, otherwise its bad business.

Is it so hard for nowadays people to accept that he does the game for free and for fun of many others, which is also his main goal? Don't you think Jason could do much more money by simply programming something else, without having hundreds of people complaining about it all the time?

Come on, mate.



Teal'auc

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:04 pm
by semper
Teal'auc of the Tok'ra wrote:
Semper wrote:Jason is human the last I knew... $$ may not be the SOLE goal, but its gotta be the main goal, otherwise its bad business.

Is it so hard for nowadays people to accept that he does the game for free and for fun of many others, which is also his main goal? Don't you think Jason could do much more money by simply programming something else, without having hundreds of people complaining about it all the time?

Come on, mate.



Teal'auc


He does the game for free? No he dont. Lol..dont get me wrong, I dont hate, or have anything against Jason, but well No I dont know if he could program anything else, I dont think he NEEDS to do anything else with the turnover from this game and as for people complaining, I dont see him here paying attention, lol. The poor guy has the game itself to worry about. It is Forum's job to listen to us whine like a load of beaten dogs, and id presume pass the info to jason in a few brief summerised sentences.

People are never happy with what they have, no matter what you do, as long as ive been coming on these forums, someone has had a problem with something or another..from SS when it first came out, to ascention, to Omega to the server problems, to other 'incidents' with massings etc and to this, today. It'd be the same wherever he went T, except for all you know, if he took that other job, instead of 3000 complaining game users (thats like what? 8% of the playing game) he may have a boss moaning at him, a boss that controls whether he's eating steak or pot noodles for dinner.

So, no. You come on. The games in big trouble, the community bleeding stinks to high heaven many of the older and respectable generation are selling up or becoming more and more vacant and this has been happening for over a month now. Admin needs to pull their finger out and start addressing this properly other then throwing updates and changing PA (public appearance) faces to try and calm the ravaging horde.

I've been around successful businesses all my life and one of the things I've learnt is that an unsatisfied customer is a very bad thing. Several hundred, if not a couple of thousand is VERY VERY bad. And every time I look in main now I just see the perfect metaphor for SGW, a GENERAL MESS! With a limitless supply of winging topics and where are the mods and admin? Well to be frank, it appears their hanging from the rafters bewildered as to the goings on below.

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:11 pm
by Teal'auc of the Void
I see the big problem in us - the community as a whole. A lot of people complain about something, so then admin goes and tries to fix it. Few days (weeks, months...depends) people start moaning again and they want that update to be shot down that the way it used to be was better. People often have no idea what they want as they look into the problem only short term based.

I see many people who complained that there were nearly no AT's on market complaining how wrong it is so have limitless turns.

Yes, game changes, evolves. However this community is getting far more 'spoiled' if you catch my drift. Old school players are becoming tired of all present caps -- guess what, limiting AT's would bring yet another limitation to the game. But that's not point of my post.

I really wish people would try to walk in Jason's shoes for a bit. Half of them would shut down the game after first week.



Teal'auc

Re: SGW is dying....

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:17 pm
by semper
Yeah, an update is brought in say several months after its suggested, by which time, a whole new group of players have arrived and become established and obviously have then got used to life without the update, which we've found they dont like.

Personall I do think the current amount of AT's needs to be reduced, but as I said above, I think, now a more personal address would be more fitting. As if the community remains how it is, then no matter the update, things will never change.

lol.. T, just smile and wave... smile and wave... tis all that can be done..