Let's not forget...[Europe only]

[Cole]

Its not pretending false things, even the founders of the EEC have publically stated that they created a trade only alliance to begin with becuase they knew some countries (the UK included) would not at that time joined a political alliance.

Hell they have come out and said it for gods sake. they knew damn well that if they had tried to create a political alliance to start with a lot of current EU countries would have turned around and said 'on your bike' when invited.

oh and dont forget you need the UK, we dont need you.

EDIT: I also see the the 'no EU' vote is winning, you might reflect on that

Of course such things have to start somewhere, Rome wasn't built in a day remember?

We *need* the UK? Now it's the nationalist-awesome-self feeling rising, I was expecting it to come lol..

Yes 3 vs 2 that's OHHH so representative of the EU!! roflmaozetung

[dermetry]

add me into the do not care vote.

[Kit-Fox]

When looked at with regards to the UK only, the EU needs the UK much more than the UK needs the EU.

And your the one who started the vote, I'm just suggesting you pay attention to it. Not my fault if you dont like what it shows

[Solus]

1.Read again, I said it would be good if yes voters posted as well.

actually pops you clearly said that your opponents in this 'debate' are EXPECTED to post their opinions, whereas people who agree with you are not.

...if you vote no or other kind of EU, you are expected to post as well!...

...if you vote yes, it's up to you...

besides, if this is to be a debate, then why dont you adress the issues Kit-fox has presented with something other than vague sarcasm which really doesnt accomplish anything?

~soul

The power of quotes...you can use them as you wish. And change their meaning. I'm seing you did so.

And yes sarcasm, because he doesn't seem to understand that EU built itself with time, that trapping countries into it with lies & hidden agenda is pure bs and is paranoia.
UK joined in 1973, Maastricht treaty in 1992...
It's just trying to make EU guilty for UK's SO CALLED mistake to have joined EU by pretending false things.

All I see here is more ill informed rambling. Using quotes to change the meaning of your words? You are the one who typed them, Not me. Also, considering you're trying to inform me of the usage of the English language, a language to which you openly admit is not your primary language, I find insulting. You'll find that 'expected to' and 'your choice' are not the same thing, and while you may have meant otherwise, what you typed did not represent it accurately. The arrogance of your reply also is not acceptable. Your grasp on the English Language is not as great as you think.

Also, Kit-fox is entitled to his opinion, so you calling this a 'debate' thread, then proceeding to ridicule someone based on opinion does nothing to further the thread, your views or anything else for that matter. Other than serving to alienate people, it all seems to be ignorant garbage.

You'll find that Kit-fox never alluded to a grand scheme or any agenda, just that the UK joined under one intention and were somewhat duped by their governments views, and the terms of their membership.

If the EU wish to change its agreement for member nations and enforce its standards and political ideals upon its member nations, then the citizens of the UK have every right to feel they should withdraw. If you were to become a customer of a bank, then 10-20 years later they inform you of policy changes that you as a customer are unhappy with, then you'd have every right to take your business elsewhere.

Quite simply Pops, the EU isn't as 'Godly' or 'Righteous' as you make it out to be, and insulting others with your faulty logic only serves to concrete in our minds your level of maturity (or rather a lack of it). Before holding a debate topic, you need to work on your manners, and be prepared to adress others in a courteous manner, and not mock them for what they believe.

~soul

[Cole]

When looked at with regards to the UK only, the EU needs the UK much more than the UK needs the EU.

And your the one who started the vote, I'm just suggesting you pay attention to it. Not my fault if you dont like what it shows

That sgw is full of anti EU, it shows that, and I'm sure that among recent votes added (the 2 no votes just added..) many non Europeans voted just for the lols the no option..

Just because sgw people are misguided doesn't mean, fortunately, that all people who are going to vote in elections will vote for those anti EU mostly from radical right and radical left wing, or at least ultranationalist.

Well, I expected too much from people here, looks like you lot just prefer your good old national isolated places with national currency.

All I see here is more ill informed rambling. Using quotes to change the meaning of your words? You are the one who typed them, Not me. Also, considering you're trying to inform me of the usage of the English language, a language to which you openly admit is not your primary language, I find insulting. You'll find that 'expected to' and 'your choice' are not the same thing, and while you may have meant otherwise, what you typed did not represent it accurately. The arrogance of your reply also is not acceptable. Your grasp on the English Language is not as great as you think.

Also, Kit-fox is entitled to his opinion, so you calling this a 'debate' thread, then proceeding to ridicule someone based on opinion does nothing to further the thread, your views or anything else for that matter. Other than serving to alienate people, it all seems to be ignorant garbage.

You'll find that Kit-fox never alluded to a grand scheme or any agenda, just that the UK joined under one intention and were somewhat duped by their governments views, and the terms of their membership.

If the EU wish to change its agreement for member nations and enforce its standards and political ideals upon its member nations, then the citizens of the UK have every right to feel they should withdraw. If you were to become a customer of a bank, then 10-20 years later they inform you of policy changes that you as a customer are unhappy with, then you'd have every right to take your business elsewhere.

Quite simply Pops, the EU isn't as 'Godly' or 'Righteous' as you make it out to be, and insulting others with your faulty logic only serves to concrete in our minds your level of maturity (or rather a lack of it). Before holding a debate topic, you need to work on your manners, and be prepared to adress others in a courteous manner, and not mock them for what they believe.

~soul

It's very easy to quote a part of a sentence to change its meaning. Following text from you just confirm what I said, quote a part of my text to change its sense.

As for EU scamming UK...When you join a group, you have to take into consideration it has POSSIBILITIES TO CHANGE IN THE FUTURE. Fortunately, I might add. (caps because I'm tired of the whole we weren't expecting this)

Oh what do you think I'm doing? I subscribed to a semi-official right wing politics forum lately (not radical right, I wouldn't lower myself to such level), and that's exactly how some of people there react to their contrary (aka the total opposite incarnated here by anti EU people). And believe me, some of them are older than you & I..

[Kit-Fox]

In fact VOID not only have I not alluded to any kind of grand plan the UK PM at the time Edward Heath was given supposedly solid promises upon the UKs joining that it would never ever be anything other than a trade alliance.

So yeah we were conned alright

EDIT : Mr Heath has even said since had he known what the other nations were planning to do he would have told them to shove off and never taken the UK into it in the first place

[Cole]

In fact VOID not only have I not alluded to any kind of grand plan the UK PM at the time Edward Heath was given supposedly solid promises upon the UKs joining that it would never ever be anything other than a trade alliance.

So yeah we were conned alright

EDIT : Mr Heath has even said since had he known what the other nations were planning to do he would have told them to shove off and never taken the UK into it in the first place

Who would believe someone who says "never"? People change, so do people in charge.
Translate a "never" to "not in the immediate future". And then you would see things more accurately, and why I am so annoyed at what you say..

[Kit-Fox]

What!?!?!?!

We were bare faced lied to and its our fault??

..................................




//exits the discussion

[Cole]

Kit-Fox, don't you know the "never say never" famous thing?

If someone says never...nothing says it will be indeed never..I thought people knew it, my mistake.

Never should always be translated to "very unlikely to happen, but there are still very small chances to happen..."And as in lotto, the tiny chance can happen. And it did.

Interestig that all of a sudden votes come for the no while this topic was going on for some time with Corran Horn and no real additional votes came in during those days.

A mod please lock this topic in 24 hours?

I'm going to do a new poll, more accurate, and which isn't twisted by spam, that occured here, that I am also guilty from.

[RepliMagni]

Pops - just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they're wrong, stupid, misinformed, or some kind of pseudo-fascist....it just means they disagree. Its no reason to demand an answer from them, and then try to redo the poll because its not getting results you like....

Also, there are plenty of times when you can say never....just think about a few of them....I don't think the police would like the answer "not in the immediate future" to a couple of situations.

[Cole]

Pops - just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they're wrong, stupid, misinformed, or some kind of pseudo-fascist....it just means they disagree. Its no reason to demand an answer from them, and then try to redo the poll because its not getting results you like....

Poll was brought lately when most abandonned this topic. New topics always attract more people, this one poll was added over a week after topic creation, this&that topic don't live that long...this explaining that.

There are always several subjects in which people are more involved than the rest, and it's one of them. And well, I received same kind of treatment in debate section sometimes...yes don't do what others do indeed, but well, sometimes, temptation is too great!

This looks like TTF vs FUALL take 1 or take 2...thus needing to restart on different style.

[Kit-Fox]

and now you can see just how exactly the real system works. claim its all democratic & above board until they get a result they dopnt like then they make you do it all over again like a naughty child till you pick the result they want

Hey at least the irish members should be used to this

[Juliette]

locked
This thread has become redundant due to the creation of a second thread.

(Kit-Fox: Quite right. Sharp comment.)