Ascension/Descension suggestion for more balance

[Iƒrit]

Some nice ideas, I love Lore's Idea about the 6 hour battle, probably one of the best ideas I have read in awhile. But could you correct me if I am wrong but that would mean people with large MNEC's would tip the scale of battle, would make it extermly changing for smaller players to compete.

[Lore]

Some nice ideas, I love Lore's Idea about the 6 hour battle, probably one of the best ideas I have read in awhile. But could you correct me if I am wrong but that would mean people with large MNEC's would tip the scale of battle, would make it extermly changing for smaller players to compete.

yes it would, but with the 1/5th rule in place you should build yourself up in the time allowed you before messing with the big boys.

atleast with the % that can mean a small guy can still win a battle with a much stronger opponent.

[Iƒrit]

can you elaberate how the %'s would effect the battle?

[Lore]

can you elaberate how the %'s would effect the battle?

Make Ascended battles, a fight to the death? or deascention rather. Make it so the battle lasts until one party runs out of AT. That way neither side can convert DMU and must fight with the resources avalible at the time the war starts. Every 30 minutes you get a report on the battle raging for the full 3 hrs. You can use mods and such, or a "Variable" on att, def,repusion,constitution, etc, etc. Use a 25% variable and give the last turn of the battle a 50% variable. This means that just because your bigger does not mean you will win. Also make it possible that BOTH beings can be deascended if enough damage is done to both beings, as even if you know your dieing from LF lose, you can't leave the battle. The last simotanious attack can cripple both beings.

Basicly make it so there is a % variance on each turns attacks. Your strike and def both vary 25% per att and by 50% on the last attack. Also make it so both being can be crippled if enough damage is done.

I posted a more elaborate version in another thread some time back, ill try to find it.

[Harlequin]

Make it so the battle lasts until one party runs out of AT. That way neither side can convert DMU and must fight with the resources available at the time the war starts.

Just one quick question here: if one was to wait for a person to use all their turns, farm them and then initiate the descension attack it would be easier?

This means that just because your bigger does not mean you will win. Also make it possible that BOTH beings can be descended if enough damage is done to both beings, as even if you know your dieing from LF lose, you can't leave the battle. The last simultaneous attack can cripple both beings.

I think that it would be a good idea for both sides to have a chance at winning, within reason. For example, should someone with 1k LF reserves be able to stand even the remotest chance against my 1.5bn reserves?

[Lore]

Make it so the battle lasts until one party runs out of AT. That way neither side can convert DMU and must fight with the resources available at the time the war starts.

Just one quick question here: if one was to wait for a person to use all their turns, farm them and then initiate the descension attack it would be easier?

Been some time since I proposed this, but I had envisioned it as running out of AT in a Deascention battle as a bad thing. Kinna like not having the strength to keep fighting IDK. I think it should hurt the ascended being in some way, but not cripple him. So yes I think it should be easier. This will make people not burn 2K AT on a farming run for fear of deascention.

This means that just because your bigger does not mean you will win. Also make it possible that BOTH beings can be descended if enough damage is done to both beings, as even if you know your dieing from LF lose, you can't leave the battle. The last simultaneous attack can cripple both beings.

I think that it would be a good idea for both sides to have a chance at winning, within reason. For example, should someone with 1k LF reserves be able to stand even the remotest chance against my 1.5bn reserves?

Well this is another thing thats changed since i suggested this. Reserves will need to be removed or its pointless as you say. Maybe make it so if your online you can use reserves to refill? IDK


Feel free to discuss it more, maybe something useable will evolve from it.

[Tacet]

@Lore, your idea is interesting. Just wonders, if the length of the battle depends on ATs, what stops me from just using most of my ATs once or twice a day? If someone wants to descend me, I quickly run out of ATs, so the battle is over. Making the battle last as long as the attacker has ATs left would also be problematic, as the defender will then be unable to strike back.

[Lore]

@Lore, your idea is interesting. Just wonders, if the length of the battle depends on ATs, what stops me from just using most of my ATs once or twice a day? If someone wants to descend me, I quickly run out of ATs, so the battle is over. Making the battle last as long as the attacker has ATs left would also be problematic, as the defender will then be unable to strike back.

Well as stated above, it evolved to not ending the battle, but it does negatively effect the one, or both, who run out during the battle.

As for the defender returning fire, In my original idea a "cool down" period was required or someone could simply do 2 deascention battles back to back while someone is sleeping. As for a defender going after the attacker, thats where not burning all your AT needs to come into play.

Deascention is not possible right now, but if we change it so that it is, we also need to make it so its not easily done or exploitable and cheap. I think burning a large amount of AT is a good way to do so. It makes it hard in times of war to war physically and as ascended beings, and it makes it harder on snipers, who if they sniper enough people will finally be able to be stopped some what.

The key is some type of balance, we have to find one. It swung to far from one extreme to the other. Surely we can find some middle ground.

[Tacet]

Thanks, makes more sense now.

Another advantage of using a lot of ATs: it would make ascended strategy more interesting. Meaning that you'll probably get ppl specializing to a much larger extent than is currently the case: A specialize in normal assassination and massing, while B specialize in ascended attacks.

One thing I don't really like is that once in battle, you're out of control (unless I missed something else?). I understand that it is to limit the current Farm->Cache->LF immortality, but give the player some semblence of control. How about adding a Life Leach ability? The player then has the choice to activate either Life Leach, which leach a percentage of the damage he does to the enemy back as LF for himself, or the normal Energy Repulsion. This will give you the chance to do something at least, rather than to just sit and watch yourself dying.

Or, add a ticket out of the battle, but at the cost of not being able to do DMU->Cache for 24 hours. Once you're out of the battle, you can still be attacked, but in the standard 100 AT ascended attack as it is now. So you can be descended, but at least you can assassinate someone of your own size. Lol, you can even go on vac mode

[Lore]

Thanks, makes more sense now.

Another advantage of using a lot of ATs: it would make ascended strategy more interesting. Meaning that you'll probably get ppl specializing to a much larger extent than is currently the case: A specialize in normal assassination and massing, while B specialize in ascended attacks.
Yes I agree with you there.


One thing I don't really like is that once in battle, you're out of control (unless I missed something else?). I understand that it is to limit the current Farm->Cache->LF immortality, but give the player some semblence of control. How about adding a Life Leach ability? The player then has the choice to activate either Life Leach, which leach a percentage of the damage he does to the enemy back as LF for himself, or the normal Energy Repulsion. This will give you the chance to do something at least, rather than to just sit and watch yourself dying.
IDK, I can see absorbtion and repulsion possibly changing a bit, make them toggleable? Gives you the choice of trying to gain some LF back to live longer, or to do as much damage as possible in hopes of taking him down with you? IDK


Or, add a ticket out of the battle, but at the cost of not being able to do DMU->Cache for 24 hours. Once you're out of the battle, you can still be attacked, but in the standard 100 AT ascended attack as it is now. So you can be descended, but at least you can assassinate someone of your own size. Lol, you can even go on vac mode
This creates 2 different types of ascended battles, do we really need two? And why cantinue to make deascention avoidable? Either you can do it or you can't. I like the possiblity of both being deascended, and the variability aspect. It gives people a chance, but still gives the edge to the bigger stronger player who does deserve it.

[Lithium]

the idea is quite interesting (going in an ascended battle till one is out)

but i see it very hard to implement due to many codes it has to chenge.

Tacet made an interesting point: sit and watch yourself dying.
coz its an auto process , while u ve set yr acc to desc ppl and make it harder to them to desc u then you have to just auto the process.
at this point we will see a second we will encounter a second kind of sniper.

also the fact of turns is a way hard to implement. what if yr enemy has less then 300 at's /day?

Important fact. when u engage smoen in th asc battle yr are at full LF.
the enemy will strike u bck but he cant be at full LF so his hit-bcks are very limited which can result that every his hit-bck will put him in a worst situation. Basically who hit first can auto win.

more over let say u won the battle against an opponent that is nearly yr power, you can be engaged by his friend and get desc very quick an so on makes a chain

to prevent them u ve to put a safe period after a asc battle till u full generate which also means that the generation should be hasten a little coz we ll lvl up a lot.

[Lore]

the idea is quite interesting (going in an ascended battle till one is out) TY

but i see it very hard to implement due to many codes it has to chenge.
Understandable
Tacet made an interesting point: sit and watch yourself dying.
coz its an auto process , while u ve set yr acc to desc ppl and make it harder to them to desc u then you have to just auto the process.
at this point we will see a second we will encounter a second kind of sniper.Whats the difference? seeing it coming? or it being instant? Really? same result?

also the fact of turns is a way hard to implement. what if yr enemy has less then 300 at's /day? AT is the only limiting factor in ascention and the only "good" thing about ascended. Lets play it up and work with it. We all see the downfalls of unlimited AT.

Important fact. when u engage smoen in th asc battle yr are at full LF.
the enemy will strike u bck but he cant be at full LF so his hit-bcks are very limited which can result that every his hit-bck will put him in a worst situation. Basically who hit first can auto win. Not true. Equel being fighting will result in the attacker dieing first due to repulsion. Refilling is the only advantage to the attacker

more over let say u won the battle against an opponent that is nearly yr power, you can be engaged by his friend and get desc very quick an so on makes a chain If you noted I included a "cool down" period where NO ascended attacks were possible. This gives the defender time to refill as the attacker does. But note that with my "timed" babttle. the attacker may not be avalible to refill, and the defender may come online, refill, and attack in return. Some form a stratagy.

to prevent them u ve to put a safe period after a asc battle till u full generate which also means that the generation should be hasten a little coz we ll lvl up a lot.Yes and no,,, what I'm trying to accomplish is a long term battle that if enough people sit on one guy long enough will result in deascention, but also allow several smaller player to also gang up on one much stronger being and take him down as well. Something well rounded and more balanced. I think the variable % on stats is the key to the idea.

[anderos]

Maybe this new "forced" Descension Idea should be able to happen after the 7th ascension or 8th ascension so It can give Newly ascended players time to build up on there Ascended accounts.

1) Make it so you can only be descended after your 7th ascension or 8th ascension (but make it limited to how far down someone can descended you)

2a) only make this descension last for one mouth per each time you where descended but starting at maybe your 3rd ascension (but you can only be descended to prior)

2b) Going off of 2a: Give players a way to recover quicker.

3) With maybe this idea after your 3rd ascension (again) other players are able to descended you but, they MUST be within 2 ascensions ahead of you (2 behind if you have ascended more). But still have the one mouth per descended thing for recovery.

I'm only putting this out there because I just Ascended a few days ago and personally I think this topic really needs to be looked over and the ideas in it refined a bit more. Or you can wait until 80 or 90 percent of main has ascended.

[Lithium]

Whats the difference? seeing it coming? or it being instant? Really? same result?

The difference is that the actual let u refill and prevent the descension, while the 6 hrs engaging (Hit / hit bck every turns) changes a lot in strategy and calculations. many members find it hard the way the ascended runs imagine to calc everything.


I want to know; once u are in the auto battle can you manually refill yr LF and reserves to avoid the desc?
Also a 6 hrs battle might not be enough to desc one of the two in the battle. this leads to "avoiding" the process by hitting smone (let say a friend) and in 6 hrs (12 turns) none is hurt then u refill on the Cool Down. well u can do this all th time with the same account.

i might be wrong here due to calcs of the repulsion hits.


TURNS

it could be resolved by setting the attack at 33 turns and u can go in negative Turns. during the Cool Down process (3/6/12 or 48 hrs) u can recover the turns.

still the problem remains on those that are at min turns

or The Council allows you to finish the battle , no matter the turns.[/color]

If you noted I included a "cool down" period where NO ascended attacks were possible. This gives the defender time to refill as the attacker does. But note that with my "timed" babttle. the attacker may not be avalible to refill, and the defender may come online, refill, and attack in return. Some form a strategy.

here the time Zone is an Important Factor.
work/sleep hours might prevent the defender to get online and refill when the battle is over, unless the Cool Down period is 12 hrs.

what I'm trying to accomplish is a long term battle that if enough people sit on one guy long enough will result in deascention, but also allow several smaller player to also gang up on one much stronger being and take him down as well. Something well rounded and more balanced. I think the variable % on stats is the key to the idea.

well the small players might get desc during the process of 12 hits (big repulsion and big ToC of the big guy)


To resume, i see this idea not only as a way to descend an account but also as a new game play. If implemented this will change a lot in strategy and calculations. also there is a lot of work to do in this case.

you know that even some big guys in main dont even know to to play the ascended.

[Lore]

Yes the idea will most definitely change stratagies, seeing as there realy isn't one at all now it would have to, but is that a bad thing?

Yes it is possible to have a battle and
1 both walk away hurt
2 one becomes descended
3 both become deascended

Yes I'd say it is abuseable as you have shown, maybe ascended battles should effect the physical ascended realm adversely? IDK but a good catch on your part.

Turns, Only reason I really bring them in is a way to make snipers/farmer fear using all their AT at once, but you have an intresting Idea. This would be one way to stop or severly delay snipers if they never have turns.

cooldown,,, i had invisioned at 2 at most 6 hrs, 2 is what I said but it can evolve as needed.

Yes a little guy can take himself out on a big guy,,,, why shouldnt it be that way? but think about it, 5 little guys ganging up on a bully, yeah three of them got deascended doing it but they still through a combined effort took the big guy down. Atleast it would be possible.

And yes it would drasticly change gameplay and stratagies, again is that a bad thing?

And yes there are many people from all over with diffent sizes of accounts who don't know how to play ascended, and many more who don't care.