Page 1 of 8
Nature of This Game (Stargatewars yes/no?)
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:36 pm
by Madtown
I obviously need to make a bigger point of this so I am editing it in lol.
I would just like to point out this is not suppose to be a big discussion of any alliance or anything ingame I am not criticizing anyone or alliance. It was simply and example I used this is just suppose to be about the use of this term on the forum and how most people just use it to justify all of their actions ingame.
Before you start understand this is not about any player or alliance but simply a concept.
I have read a lot on these forum of people discussing things sucks as the style of play that should be used in this game. What I am speaking of is that of war and fighting each other for naq and what not. Most people generally come back to this concept that the game is named
http://www.stargatewars.com. The funny part is a lot of these people who claim that this is how the game should be played are part of one of the largest groups of NAP'ed alliances ever seen in SGW history. with TLE's side their are ruffly 260ish people (more added every day) and for Fuall side their are over 350. So for you people who are in these alliances and use this as your retort how can you justify this. Also for every other alliance I don't know of any alliances that don't have at least one NAP. From where I am sitting what you guys should change the title to is StargateNAP. For right now this game isn't about war for if it was their wouldn't be NAP's at all for it should be an all out war between all alliances.
Now if you want to justify this by saying that NAP's are needed then let me ask you why is it that NAP's are needed? It is not for Stargatewar it is so you guys don't need to smash each other in the mouth. This sounds a lot like stargatepeace to me. Then you could also go to the theory that each alliance could be equated to a country and so countries need to have NAP's with each other to help maintain peace. Though then I would ask you what is wrong with the style of play of peace lovers those that simply injoy the game for the community and a fun distraction (Switzerland) for this is also the way country's are run.
In summary this hole thing is not about any alliance or player in general it is simply about this concept that a lot of players use to justify their answer which is
http://www.stargatewars.com. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss.
P.S. If you choose to respond please try and give some sort of argument don't just give a one liner lol.
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:39 pm
by Vendetta
Good for you buddy!
loud and proud!
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:40 pm
by Z E R O
I know what you mean completely.. The giant nap is getting insane..
I think that's why everyone is jumping on the whole server war bandwagon.. you have x amount of people that tend not to get along with another x amount of people.. and something's bound to break eventually. The NAPs are temporary.. and I know people saying OMG there WILL be a server war gets people yelled at lately (i've seen it) but the facts definitely do support the idea..
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:43 pm
by Raven
If you had a clue what a war between JP and Fuall would mean you probably wouldnt come up with a post like this......people always think it will get better......If they go to war this whole game will change.....for everyone
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:45 pm
by Madtown
I would just like to point out this is not suppose to be a big discussion of any alliance or anything ingame I am not criticizing anyone or alliance. It was simply and example I used this is just suppose to be about the use of this term on the forum and how most people just use it to justify all of their actions ingame.
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:46 pm
by Z E R O
Raven wrote:If you had a clue what a war between JP and Fuall would mean you probably wouldnt come up with a post like this......people always think it will get better......If they go to war this whole game will change.....for everyone
Isn't that exactly what people want?
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:47 pm
by Vendetta
Raven wrote:If you had a clue what a war between JP and Fuall would mean you probably wouldnt come up with a post like this......people always think it will get better......If they go to war this whole game will change.....for everyone
Much like the Faction v GA war, and the CIA v CoP war first war made it worse, second sorta just changed it, so by those ends, the 3rd will make it better
Im looking forward to it
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:53 pm
by Madtown
Raven wrote:If you had a clue what a war between JP and Fuall would mean you probably wouldnt come up with a post like this......people always think it will get better......If they go to war this whole game will change.....for everyone
Also I will diverge for a second and discuss this though I don't want this to be about any specific alliance. I do understand exactly what it would mean for a war between these two dispite the fact my post count is quite low that is simply because I don't respond that often. Anyways you kind of did make my point isn't this suppost to be stargatewars by several peoples definition not stargatenap. By their definition this game is about making war and having fun not about caring about your recources and building your account.
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:58 pm
by Nimras
Right the author already said it 3 times this is not about any alliance the alliance in question was a examble would you guys keep on the topic.
Which is about the use of this is a WAR game look at the title yet we have NAPs and so on.
Now keep on topic and take TJP and FUALL else where please.
Nimras
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:00 am
by nobodyhere
Madtown wrote:Raven wrote:If you had a clue what a war between JP and Fuall would mean you probably wouldnt come up with a post like this......people always think it will get better......If they go to war this whole game will change.....for everyone
Also I will diverge for a second and discuss this though I don't want this to be about any specific alliance. I do understand exactly what it would mean for a war between these two dispite the fact my post count is quite low that is simply because I don't respond that often. Anyways you kind of did make my point isn't this suppost to be stargatewars by several peoples definition not stargatenap. By their definition this game is about making war and having fun not about caring about your recources and building your account.
naps have their uses (i don't agree with naps and while i was AK leader i never entertained the notion of a nap with ANY alliance) for some of the big guys and they never last long (in my experience anyways).
so its just a matter of time when a NAP has served its use and is discarded
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:01 am
by Mattwell
Madtown wrote: The funny part is a lot of these people who claim that this is how the game should be played are part of one of the largest groups of NAP'ed alliances ever seen in SGW history. with TLE's side their are ruffly 260ish people (more added every day) and for Fuall side their are over 350. So for you people who are in these alliances and use this as your retort how can you justify this.
Way too many people you cant hit, I believe that was one of the main reasons Omega, D12 and DDE gave for "ending" The GA. Ironic...
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:22 am
by Clarkey
Madtown wrote:I would just like to point out this is not suppose to be a big discussion of any alliance or anything ingame I am not criticizing anyone or alliance. It was simply and example I used this is just suppose to be about the use of this term on the forum and how most people just use it to justify all of their actions ingame.
You could easily have made up an example without naming real alliances. You said it's not about any particular alliance but you decided to use TLE and FUALL.
Do you play this game yourself? and do you have a PEACE relation with anyone in this game?
If the answer is yes... then please explain why you do.
If you do not then I suppose you hit whoever you want even if they are a friend?
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:35 am
by Madtown
clarkey wrote:Madtown wrote:I would just like to point out this is not suppose to be a big discussion of any alliance or anything ingame I am not criticizing anyone or alliance. It was simply and example I used this is just suppose to be about the use of this term on the forum and how most people just use it to justify all of their actions ingame.
You could easily have made up an example without naming real alliances. You said it's not about any particular alliance but you decided to use TLE and FUALL.
Do you play this game yourself? and do you have a PEACE relation with anyone in this game?
If the answer is yes... then please explain why you do.
If you do not then I suppose you hit whoever you want even if they are a friend?
To be honest the whole point I used them as an example is due to the large scale that they infact had so it could put into perspective what I was trying to argue. I could have just as easily said any alliance with an NAP but it was just the first one that came to mind. Since when arguing a point it is generally a good idea to have some sort of evidence to back it up. Also my hole point of using this is that I am arguing against the way stargatewars is being used to justify people actions so perhaps I wasn't making myself clear in the first post.
Though to answer the second part I don't have any peace treaties ingame and I do hit who ever I find. Which if you use stargatewars in the way most people seem to project it is how you would need to play the game to use it how they do.
I was rather hoping that it could just be an open discussion about this and people on both sides of the issue would present some sort of argument of why they believe it either should or shouldn't be done. I personally enjoy debating issues in real life and so decided to try on here.
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:36 am
by Azarak
Vendetta wrote:Good for you buddy!
loud and proud!
Re: Nature of This Game
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:46 am
by Severian
I could say an auful lot on this subject but due to lack of time and generally being rather tired as it is a Friday - will keep it shorter then it could be.
This is a Wargame.
War emcompasses many different aspects:
- Physical Force and Projection. Agressive Plundering and projecting your power/influence through brute force to get your way. Key examples being DDE/TDL style alliances.
- Passive stockpiling in a similiar manner of a Fleet in being. That is your ability to commit action even if you haven't commited them that gets you your way. I.E The threat of waking a sleeping giant acts as a preventative measure/deterant. Key examples being DD in its day and TL.
- The Information and Intelligence War - knowing your own abilities, potential enemy abilities as well as the mindframe and level of counter intelligence the enemy has on you. Agressive information as in a war on words, ruining images, spreading false information to provoke or redirect action. Defensive information in knowning your own situation and how to tread without stepping on toes. Key examples being AEU in its day which was very much focused on words and intelligence rather then action.
- The Diplomacy War - Passive diplomacy as in friendships, mutual diplomacy for economic reasons, agressive diplomacy in encircling a potential enemy (Being the key thing that set off the Central Powers nerves in that they were diplomatically surrounded before the war started). Key examples at the moment being TJP and FUALL.
The thing is out of the four, the Agressive force had somehow become taboo and only diplomacy or a fleet in being approach was really tolerated. If anyone did something that wasn't provoked, suddenly all these unwritten ironclad moral rights and protections came into being. People have defended (myself included) the agressive playstyle as it is just as valid and useful as the other methods of war.
Do say TDL and DDE practise the other methods? Yes. So it is not double standards that we are applying. We recognise when it is viable and in our best interests to use the different methods and our fellow branches use them to a larger degree.
There are diplomatic relations between Janus and FUALL because as of this moment, we both recognise that it is more beneficial (and mutually beneficial to be precise) to have them so. We are both competant fighters with the resources and determination to effectively go indefinetly. Neither side would back down nor would one side lose enough to no longer be a threat and so the gains of taking on the other will be quickly outweighed.
If one side grows, that tips the balance a little (although not enough to affect the current likely outcome) and so you'll find esculation becomes a matter of maintaining the mutual requirement for the NaP. Were one side to get too far ahead of the other, the NaP may no longer be economical and it may result in one side falling from power.
What then would become of the server if there were just one power who by the power of a years worth of esculation would be far larger and ahead of the closest rival a dozen fold since say the days of GA etc.
So as long as one side is determined to keep expanding (in an attempt to get ahead of the other), the other will tend to match it and thus further drain the SGW genepool. We have already seen the death of most mid level alliances and people are more inclined to join a super-power rather then focus or form your own.
The genetic diversity is drying up and thus is the sad fate of SGW as of this moment (and the reason of the mention of the slow death). This also gives rise to the notion of trimming the fat and evokes images of the GA expelling and abandoning its former friends and allies.
So you have the slow death as people are drawn to super-powers or the rather quick domination of one super power which sees an effective end to competition.
The Server should be thankful of this NaP in that it buys them time to co-ordinate their efforts and stem the 'brain drain' as well dread the day that either TLE or FUALL gets too far ahead of the other.
Food for thought...