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Legendary Apophis wrote:i'd like to see people who vote post why etc...some didn't yet! (voting for 1 or 2 option I mean)

I don't want of United States of Europe don't get me wrong, but this everyone cares for his own country is a bit boring and had to go way in my opinion. I'm all in favour of sharing things with other European countries to show Europe isn't nothing and that we can compete with the US in the commerce and economy! Divided we are weak, united we are strong, or somthing like that

Phoenix of Terra wrote:Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Ancient SyStem LoRd wrote:

Phoenix of Terra wrote:Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

Legendary Apophis wrote:i'd like to see people who vote post why etc...some didn't yet! (voting for 1 or 2 option I mean)

I don't want of United States of Europe don't get me wrong, but this everyone cares for his own country is a bit boring and had to go way in my opinion. I'm all in favour of sharing things with other European countries to show Europe isn't nothing and that we can compete with the US in the commerce and economy! Divided we are weak, united we are strong, or somthing like that

Phoenix of Terra wrote: Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

Phoenix of Terra wrote:

Ancient SyStem LoRd wrote:

Phoenix of Terra wrote:Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

At the beginning of the French and Indian War (Seven Year War for Europe I think), the colonies were trying to build a greater unity. This whole independent minded thing is nothing new in America. Each of the original 13 came from different backgrounds. Massachussets was formed by Puritans avoiding Anglican harrassment, Virginia was founded by a company hoping to strike gold and nearly died off because of it. Border wars scuffles between colonies would have been more common if they didn't have outside enemies in the French and the Native Americans.

The cartoon was drawn by Benjamin Franklin about a month before the Albany Conference (1763). It was supposed to encourage the colonies to join together to fight the external threats. As it was, only 7 of the 13 sent delegates. But they managed to put together a charter for self rule, which was therefore rejected by Britain because it gave too much leeway and the colonies because it didn't give enough.

However, this same debate that Europe is going through is (on the surface, as Europe has a huge amount of historical baggage in comparison) rather similar to the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist debate that erupted following the writing of the Constitution and during the movement to dissolve the Articles of Confederation. Under the Articles, the United States were a group of colonies who had very loose association. Border and tariff wars were rather common between these new states. As it is, the Constitution gave a higher power which was able to prevent the squabbling states from fighting and began to pay off foriegn debt, etc.

Yeah, Europe is in a different place than America was at that time. But the debate for a centralized government still seems similar, from an American's perspective. Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

evilevi777 wrote:

Phoenix of Terra wrote:

Ancient SyStem LoRd wrote:

Phoenix of Terra wrote:Did you see the link? It does have some historical consequence...

Hmmm it's north states (new jerzey, virginia, new empshire, north carolina etc)

Lol civil war? or independance war related?

At the beginning of the French and Indian War (Seven Year War for Europe I think), the colonies were trying to build a greater unity. This whole independent minded thing is nothing new in America. Each of the original 13 came from different backgrounds. Massachussets was formed by Puritans avoiding Anglican harrassment, Virginia was founded by a company hoping to strike gold and nearly died off because of it. Border wars scuffles between colonies would have been more common if they didn't have outside enemies in the French and the Native Americans.

The cartoon was drawn by Benjamin Franklin about a month before the Albany Conference (1763). It was supposed to encourage the colonies to join together to fight the external threats. As it was, only 7 of the 13 sent delegates. But they managed to put together a charter for self rule, which was therefore rejected by Britain because it gave too much leeway and the colonies because it didn't give enough.

However, this same debate that Europe is going through is (on the surface, as Europe has a huge amount of historical baggage in comparison) rather similar to the Federalist vs Anti-Federalist debate that erupted following the writing of the Constitution and during the movement to dissolve the Articles of Confederation. Under the Articles, the United States were a group of colonies who had very loose association. Border and tariff wars were rather common between these new states. As it is, the Constitution gave a higher power which was able to prevent the squabbling states from fighting and began to pay off foriegn debt, etc.

Yeah, Europe is in a different place than America was at that time. But the debate for a centralized government still seems similar, from an American's perspective. Though, there's a difference between a federal government and an authoritarian government, and I'm not sure which the EU is shooting for.

i actually learned about this only 2 or 3 weeks ago in classes, very nice , and oh yeah btw, i don't really have any idea about this EU thing, i'm from the states