Terrorists, real or not?

[Angnoch]

ok in all honesty Iraq is doing better now than ever before of the 18 provinces of Iraq more than half are completely under Iraqi control so 10 years from now the only US presence you will see in Iraq is either advisers or at a US Embassy.

Second Terrorists don't "go blow themselves up" those are called suicide bombers or sha'hids they are "Jihadists" that believe it is the will of Allah that they commit such an act of faith even though suicide is against the Islamic code laid down in the Qur'an. They commit this act because it is believed that if you die in the service of a Jihad you are iimmediately brought to heaven to be with Allah and you will be in his eternal presence. Why dont you get a little bit of cultural knowledge before you go and spout complete **Filtered** in this topic. The majority of terrorists are well educated individuals who are fairly charismatic and have the innate ability to lead people even to talk people into sacrificing themselves. I suggest this thread be locked even though I know it is not my topic simply because it is getting out of hand and the personal attacks are becoming completely ridiculous it has gone from a semi-organized disaster into complete and utter chaos.


If you don't accept that terrorists are real you are a complete fool no offense intended but seriously 9/11 happened on its own, IRA bombings in London used to happen for no reason, Al-qaida issuing threats against Denmark for more terrorist attacks is not real none of this has happened ever its just made up **Filtered** im sure.

[urogard]

war is sometimes right. would you prefer a nazi europe perhaps. its easy to spout obsene ideas when your freedom is handed to you on a plate.

War is never right, no matter how you put it.
So no, it's not an obscene idea.

Although it is sometimes the only alternative you're left, but even then the moment the war is over, those who declared war (on both sides) should be removed from the field of politics forever.

[Demeisen]

war is sometimes the right thing to do. im proud of the wars my country has fought and won (ie many). some were not right, some were right.

i think this is a specific and fundamental difference of opinion. perhaps we should agree to disagree.

i saw something interesting. apparently countries havent declared war when attacking another nation in many years. they dont see the need for an official declaration possibly? cant remember where i saw that maybe the days of declarations and 'civilised' war between gentlemen are finally dead?

[urogard]

war is sometimes the right thing to do. im proud of the wars my country has fought and won (ie many). some were not right, some were right.

You disgust me
Maybe in the next war you should go to the front line

i think this is a specific and fundamental difference of opinion. perhaps we should agree to disagree.

How can killing soldiers who have nothing to do with what their politicians say and do, and who are fathers, brothers, sons etc. be the right thing to do.

[Angnoch]

war is sometimes the right thing to do. im proud of the wars my country has fought and won (ie many). some were not right, some were right.

You disgust me
Maybe in the next war you should go to the front line

i think this is a specific and fundamental difference of opinion. perhaps we should agree to disagree.

How can killing soldiers who have nothing to do with what their politicians say and do, and who are fathers, brothers, sons etc. be the right thing to do.

I am in the army I have two younger sisters who I would die to protect and im not balking at what the elected officials say.

[Thriller]

war is sometimes the right thing to do. im proud of the wars my country has fought and won (ie many). some were not right, some were right.

You disgust me
Maybe in the next war you should go to the front line

i think this is a specific and fundamental difference of opinion. perhaps we should agree to disagree.

How can killing soldiers who have nothing to do with what their politicians say and do, and who are fathers, brothers, sons etc. be the right thing to do.

I am in the army I have two younger sisters who I would die to protect and im not balking at what the elected officials say.

nice, what division are you in?

[[KMA]Avenger]

Somewhat, I believe your right but on the other hand your defiantly wrong. I believe other governments hire out acts of terrorism. And that they use fear to make themselves more powerful and rich. But the same country wanting terrorism on itself...doubt it.

thats because you dont know that there have been many acts of terrorism carried out by govts against its own people...

try doing your own research, start with "the gulf of tonkin incident" "operation northwoods" and look up the attack carried out by israel on the USS liberty.

everyone here knows about hitler burning down his own govt building which was used as an excuse to wipe out his political enemies and which gave him dictatorial powers, but everyone says that was hitler, he was evil and its history but nobody here knows who funded hitlers rise to power and who funded germanys rebuilding, this is a hidden history that people deny exists and wont even look into....


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

that quote appears in many forms and many have used it but very few pay attention to it.


we also need to distinguish between a "terrorist" and a "freedom fighter".

[urogard]

I am in the army I have two younger sisters who I would die to protect and im not balking at what the elected officials say.

N1 M8, I hope you keep it up.

Theoretical situation.
BTW this post is for everyone, I invite everyone who reads this post to play through this.
Your commanding officer tells you to shoot a civilian that is on his knees in front of you, he says that civilian is a terrorist.
What will you do?

Read Spoiler AFTER you answer.
[spoiler]If you answered that you'd fill out the order: "Maybe you should consider giving yourself the bullet instead"
If you answered anything else except filling out the order, then assume this happens now.
Your commanding officer tells a soldier in your group to arrest you, and tells another soldier to shoot the civilian. What will you do now?

Please reply with a post giving an answer to both (or only the first) answer. Do not explain why you did it, only say what actions you take.[/spoiler]

Second alternative scenario, similar but a bit different:
Question is here:
[spoiler]Your commanding officer tells you to start digging a grave and then shoot another soldier that is on his knees in front of you.
What will you do?[/spoiler]

Read Following Spoiler AFTER you answer.
[spoiler]If you answered that you'd fill out the order: "Maybe you should consider giving yourself the bullet instead"
If you answered anything else except filling out the order, then assume this happens now.
Your commanding officer tells a soldier in your group to start digging a grave for you and then shoot you, and tells another soldier to do what you were ordered a moment ago. What will you do now?

Please reply with a post giving an answer to both (or only the first) answer. Do not explain why you did it, only say what actions you take.[/spoiler]

From a rational point of view (and from my belief) there is only one way everyone should take, but as we all know there are a good bunch of screwed people walking on this world, so i'd like to see how others would act.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i would shoot the CO in all cases.

i have no fear of dieing myself so that makes me dangerous in that i couldnt careless what the next soldier does to me so long as that CO can never give such an order again and the next CO who would want to give such orders might think twice.

i am willing to die for the man next to me, and i am willing to die in some dark hole where nobody will ever no what i did, where i will receive no glory what so ever, forgotten by all...thats why i am dangerous.

thats what it means to be human.

[urogard]

I can give you a good argument why killing your commanding officer actually increases your chance of living.

There is no way of knowing that even if you kill your comrade, whether or not 2 days later someone else gets the same order and then kill you.

So basically, either you follow the order and HOPEFULLY you might survive for a while, but there is no GUARANTEE for that
Or you take the chance and MAYBE die but also MAYBE acquire a future in which you will be able to live normally.

I'll pick the second option any day, any moment of my life.

PS: With this post I am not suggesting that I would kill him. I would probably only shoot him in the arm to show that I am dead serious and ask him if he still wishes to repeat his order and if yes, he therefore subsequently wishes the order to be executed UPON him instead. Since every kid knows, killing another person is bs, the only person you are ever allowed to kill is yourself at best.

[Thriller]

obviously you don't know your rules in the chain of command. Shooting a pow is against international law and roe. If i were giving such an order the men i serve with would mutiny and deal with the consequences in tribunal. Especially given the second case.

[Angnoch]

since for my job I have to be a subject matter expert on the Law of Land Warfare in both cases the first being Unlwaful Enemy Combatant and the second being an Enemy Prisoner of War it is illegal in both cases to shoot to detain and interrogate is not against the law however and no CO in his right mind would demand that of his soldiers if he wanted to keep his command commision and freedom. Breaking the LoLW in any way is punishable by confinement in federal or international jail.

In both cases the one where I get arrested is by far the easiest to manuever out of because I would contact JAG and the IG immediately following my confinement and my CO would be imprisoned instead of me and the soldier following orders would also be imprisoned because it is an unlawful order. The soldier being told to shoot me is also an unlawful command and hopefully my battle buddy realizes that because there is really nothing I can do to prevent it from happening.


I am currently awaiting orders for duty station. I left for basic back in January and im in AIT right now graduate Oct 2nd but I will prolly get stuck here for a while afterwards for stupid airborne hold

[urogard]

You guys are way too naive lol, you gave an interesting explanation (even when explicitly told not to state one), so i'd give you a 50/50 chance that it would have worked.
Do you seriously think that just because it's against international law, said officer (and maybe even his superiors) would get punished?
Guys, wake up .

BTW: In the second case both of you have just died just like the other person who you were ordered to kill, because what you failed to realize is that the commanding officer was following orders given to him by his superiors, again under the threat of death. In the first case, for the same reason, the civilian died, you got sentenced to prison and the commanding officer roams free.

[[KMA]Avenger]

i suggest an excellent film called "Taxi To The Dark Side", this is a film that presents a massive amount of evidence (from people who should know, they were there!!!) that shows soldiers engaging in acts of torture by soldiers.

the orders come from the top but no one seems to know whose giving these orders...how convenient!


i STRONGLY suggest you guys learn some home truths regarding the war on terror (what a joke, and people still cant see that the joke is on us):

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i4911reality.htm

[Demeisen]

You disgust me
Maybe in the next war you should go to the front line

How can killing soldiers who have nothing to do with what their politicians say and do, and who are fathers, brothers, sons etc. be the right thing to do.

snap! urogard you disgust me aswel and maybe if your country had a military history like the uk, you would have armed forces to be proud of.

you seen to have an unhealthy fascination with the execution of POWs
you cant just order the death of a captured combatant. there are laws and rules, even in the army. if events like you describe were to happen it would need to involve a group who all agree to do the deed.

oh and if my country fights again for its freedom ill be in the front line if needed. its called protecting my nation, family, friends and liberty. maybe you would roll over and surrender. thats not the british way mate.

soldiers vote therefore they do have some control over the government.

i suggest an excellent film called "Taxi To The Dark Side", this is a film that presents a massive amount of evidence (from people who should know, they were there!!!) that shows soldiers engaging in acts of torture by soldiers.

theres always the few who do bad things. torture by uk/us troops is extremely rare. its not like its a national sport in iraq or anything. btw there is a difference between rough treatment and torture.

the fairy land you conspiracy folk live in must be fun. shame its lies though