StarGateWars Forums

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2008 12:13 am**

With the estimations of having a world population reaching the 10 billions by the end of this century, there has to be measures taken. This is the result of some topics coming from this & that, that I came up with that.
Some will bring crazy ideas like select a certain type of people and wipe the rest. It's unacceptable. Some others will say, it's horrible to do anything there, noone has right to do anything about it, then they'll realize their mistake when world will collapse.
So we are infront of surviving of the planet and also political correctness. How to find a solution that meets BOTH of them?
It's easy.
European Union, Japan, Australia and Russia are surely not "guilty" in the growth. Some of them have almost negative population growth. Principal "guilty" ones are south Asia, Central Asia, Africa and South America.
What caracterize them? High born rates, high but decreasing death rates, growing up life lasting, not for all. So death rate decreases, and as good as it sounds, it has also bad effects: population sky rockets.
Help coming from "Western" Countries is big part of that developpement.
I've came up with an idea.
Unlike that thing being all given nothing giving, how about making them a deal like:
"If you decrease your birth rates to below 2.2 children by family, we'll give more help to develop and increase your health systems and eventually economy. However, if you carry on with >3/family, we'll stop every aid and you'll have to deal with it".
Sounds unfair?
Think a bit.
They make the population grow to a level we'll not be able to feed people anymore.
They'll screw their own countries food reserves as their countries aren't always a good weather to keep growing up cultures.
By having that much children, the aid is less effective, so it condemns all of them, by giving almost no help because too much are around, and giving more would be silly, for above reasons, IF those countries don't do efforts of course. If they do, they'll deserve more help, as a "gift", BUT will have to keep under or on the ~2.2/family.

So it's a less strict idea than China's one about birth, find myself one child per family is bit exagerated sometimes, so 2.2 is good, not saying your third one will have his/her hands/legs cut OF COURSE, just like average would be that. Majority of 2/family, some 1/family, and few 3/family.

My system would give better results as fewer poeple would be there, more effective feeding, more effective schools (not crazy amounts of people per class etc).

Let's talk on it, if you don't understand anything, ask away
That would probably solve the problem of crazy growth. To decrease world population however, that's too much risky thing to talk about, I prefer to remain on decreasing alot the growth!

"Help us, and we'll help you", is the idea's slogan, from rich countries to poor one, make less children, and then we'll help you develop your economy and help your EXISTING people, BUT NO crossing of the limit, otherwise, all goes away.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... rowth_rate
http://www.photius.com/rankings/populat ... 008_0.html

[spoiler]1 Liberia 4.84
2 United Arab Emirates 4.00
3 Gaza Strip 3.66
4 Mayotte 3.62
5 Burundi 3.59
6 Uganda 3.57
7 Kuwait 3.56
8 Yemen 3.46
9 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 3.39
10 Oman 3.23
11 Sao Tome and Principe 3.13
12 Madagascar 3.01
13 Burkina Faso 3.00
14 West Bank 2.99
15 Niger 2.90
16 Mauritania 2.87
17 Comoros 2.84
18 Somalia 2.83
19 Kenya 2.80
20 Gambia, The 2.78
21 Rwanda 2.77
22 Maldives 2.73
23 Turks and Caicos Islands 2.72
24 Togo 2.72
25 Mali 2.68
26 Benin 2.67
27 Senegal 2.65
28 Congo, Republic of the 2.64
29 Afghanistan 2.63
30 Guinea 2.62
31 Iraq 2.62
32 Solomon Islands 2.54
33 Cayman Islands 2.50
34 Eritrea 2.46
34 Northern Mariana Islands 2.46
35 Haiti 2.45
36 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 2.44
37 Paraguay 2.42
38 Jordan 2.41
39 Qatar 2.39
40 Malawi 2.38
41 Nigeria 2.38
42 Laos 2.37
43 Chad 2.32
44 Sierra Leone 2.29
45 Ethiopia 2.27
46 Libya 2.26
47 Belize 2.26
48 Syria 2.24
49 Cameroon 2.24
50 Kiribati 2.24
51 Marshall Islands 2.21
52 Angola 2.18
53 Papua New Guinea 2.16
54 Guatemala 2.15
55 Nepal 2.13
56 Tanzania 2.09
56 Honduras 2.09
57 Bhutan 2.08
57 Sudan 2.08
58 Saudi Arabia 2.06
59 Timor-Leste 2.06
60 Bangladesh 2.06
61 Guinea-Bissau 2.05
62 Gabon 2.04
63 Equatorial Guinea 2.02
64 Cote d'Ivoire 2.00
65 Djibouti 1.98
66 Ghana 1.97
67 British Virgin Islands 1.92
68 Tajikistan 1.90
69 Nicaragua 1.86
70 Tonga 1.85
71 Pakistan 1.83
72 Brunei 1.81
73 Mozambique 1.80
74 Nauru 1.78
75 Philippines 1.76
76 Malaysia 1.76
77 Uzbekistan 1.73
78 Cambodia 1.73
79 Egypt 1.72
80 El Salvador 1.70
81 Zambia 1.66
82 Turkmenistan 1.62
83 India 1.61
84 Panama 1.56
85 Ecuador 1.55
86 Tuvalu 1.54
87 Morocco 1.53
88 Aruba 1.52
89 Central African Republic 1.51
90 Botswana 1.50
91 Dominican Republic 1.50
92 Venezuela 1.49
92 Mongolia 1.49
93 French Polynesia 1.46
94 Vanuatu 1.46
95 Colombia 1.43
96 Bolivia 1.42
97 Costa Rica 1.41
98 Guam 1.40
99 Fiji 1.39
100 Bahrain 1.39
101 Anguilla 1.38
102 Kyrgyzstan 1.35
103 Saint Lucia 1.30
104 Samoa 1.29
105 Peru 1.29
106 Singapore 1.28
107 Palau 1.23
108 San Marino 1.22
109 Algeria 1.22
110 Indonesia 1.21
111 Luxembourg 1.21
112 New Caledonia 1.20
113 Lebanon 1.20
114 World 1.17
115 Israel 1.15
116 Mexico 1.15
117 Ireland 1.14
118 Suriname 1.10
119 Montserrat 1.05
120 Turkey 1.04
121 Brazil 1.01
122 Vietnam 1.00
123 Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.00
124 Tunisia 0.99
125 Sri Lanka 0.98
126 New Zealand 0.95
127 Argentina 0.94
128 Chile 0.92
129 United States 0.89
130 Canada 0.87
131 Andorra 0.84
132 Macau 0.84
133 Iceland 0.82
133 Australia 0.82
134 Burma 0.82
135 Mauritius 0.80
136 Korea, North 0.79
137 Jamaica 0.78
137 Netherlands Antilles 0.78
138 Liechtenstein 0.75
139 Azerbaijan 0.69
140 Thailand 0.66
140 Iran 0.66
141 Saint Kitts and Nevis 0.62
142 Cape Verde 0.61
142 China 0.61
143 Bahamas, The 0.60
144 Zimbabwe 0.60
145 France 0.59
146 Bermuda 0.58
147 Hong Kong 0.56
148 Faroe Islands 0.54
149 Saint Helena 0.53
150 Albania 0.53
151 Cyprus 0.53
151 Antigua and Barbuda 0.53
152 Isle of Man 0.51
153 Uruguay 0.50
154 Namibia 0.48
155 Netherlands 0.46
156 Seychelles 0.43
157 Malta 0.41
158 Korea, South 0.39
159 Puerto Rico 0.39
160 Monaco 0.39
161 Switzerland 0.38
162 Barbados 0.37
163 Norway 0.36
164 Kazakhstan 0.35
165 Grenada 0.34
166 Portugal 0.33
167 Denmark 0.31
168 Taiwan 0.30
169 United Kingdom 0.28
170 Cuba 0.27
171 Macedonia 0.26
172 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 0.25
173 Jersey 0.24
174 Guernsey 0.24
175 Guyana 0.23
176 Dominica 0.18
177 Greece 0.16
178 European Union 0.16
179 Sweden 0.16
180 Slovakia 0.15
181 Lesotho 0.14
182 Gibraltar 0.13
183 Saint Pierre and Miquelon 0.13
184 Finland 0.13
185 Belgium 0.12
186 Spain 0.12
187 Austria 0.08
188 Italy 0.01
189 Norfolk Island 0.01
190 Holy See (Vatican City) 0.00
190 Pitcairn Islands 0.00
190 Christmas Island 0.00
190 Cocos (Keeling) Islands 0.00
191 Svalbard -0.01
192 Tokelau -0.02
193 Greenland -0.03
194 Niue -0.03
195 Germany -0.03
196 Croatia -0.04
197 Poland -0.05
198 Slovenia -0.07
199 Czech Republic -0.07
200 Japan -0.09
201 Moldova -0.11
202 Romania -0.13
203 Armenia -0.13
204 Micronesia, Federated States of -0.15
205 Virgin Islands -0.17
206 Hungary -0.25
207 American Samoa -0.26
208 Lithuania -0.29
209 Georgia -0.33
210 Swaziland -0.34
211 Belarus -0.41
212 South Africa -0.46
213 Russia -0.48
214 Estonia -0.64
215 Latvia -0.65
216 Ukraine -0.68
217 Bulgaria -0.84
218 Trinidad and Tobago -0.88
219 Montenegro -1.00
220 Cook Islands -1.20[/spoiler]
2008 numbers

Save it from what?
Save it from atmosphere disappearing, with pollution made by growing up of world population, it's disappearing. Australia is already menaced by that. For Antarctica, it's over.
If population carries on growing, the semi desertic regions (where it's mostly concentrated), will become desertic, and we can expect what would happen to their inhabitants.
Also, water level is going up, some countries like Bangladesh are threatend by it. Their land is being reduced, but their population keep growing fastly, so, more killed people on new flood disasters each time.
Growth of population means we have to destroy forests to find new places to build homes, find petroleum (as reserves are almost out), create new cultures to feed more people. It means, the nature will disappear, and all bad effects it would do on us (like no limitation for floods, less plants to create meds, worsening of the air quality etc...).
Water reserves will run out. Transforming sea water into something possible to be used costs alot. That means, there will be many problems...who knows? More wars to control the little reserves remaining? Again, many will die with that.
I could carry on with what a population growth not being slowed would generate, because there's still plenty to say!

Posted: **Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:23 pm**

*Cracks fingers*

OK jim...

firstly, your proposal would never work.
The time it took for you to get the idea across well, to implement the change to the developing world and for them to get used to it, for their society to be 'conditioned' to something similar to our cultural and technological wisdom, the time will have run out, and we will have reached the population you threatened of anyway.

Then lets not forget, your only going to reduce the population growth, it would be inevitable that we'd reach such a point, and the western developed world is still going to be growing, we may have a very small population growth, but that may well increase, or even if it stays static, it still adds.

The method would never work, because the developing nations, I am sure, would mostly turn around and say "no, we are not changing, you did it your way, no why should we listen to what you say?"

Perfect example is Brazils reaction to the developed world telling them to cut down on the rainforest use. (note the wonderful pun! lol..)

The idea is very naive and well wouldnt work.

As for the melting of the ice caps, ice has displacement in water. Even if they all melt, the sea wont rise by enough to cause any amount of terrible damage that the world wide built sea walls cannot handle.

Global warming and other change? Well our leaders are already trying to tackle that, and well, they aint doin too hot, lets face it.

This world cannot be saved, humanity is too pathetic to save itself. Even if we manage to preserve the planet, which is highly unlikely, then I doubt there will be any real culture or vestiges of character worth saving within the human race.

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:30 am**

Semper wrote:*Cracks fingers*

OK jim...

firstly, your proposal would never work.
The time it took for you to get the idea across well, to implement the change to the developing world and for them to get used to it, for their society to be 'conditioned' to something similar to our cultural and technological wisdom, the time will have run out, and we will have reached the population you threatened of anyway.
As I said, perhaps not enough, my proposal includes the use of contraception; that would also prevent sida and STIs, and prevent a mass contamination of the third world...because as I said, I'm NOT in favour of "cleansing". Presently, it's being introduced slowly but surely, but I think some motivators would introduce it quickly: people realize about it, but are unsure it's worth it.

Then lets not forget, your only going to reduce the population growth, it would be inevitable that we'd reach such a point, and the western developed world is still going to be growing, we may have a very small population growth, but that may well increase, or even if it stays static, it still adds.
If we see it on selfish view, that proposal would make last earth BIT longer, and late the unavoidable, to a moment we would not be alive anymore. Like, in 90 years.
If we see it on global view, that would also give more time for those who "think" to find other proposals about other serious problems because no return point is reached.

The method would never work, because the developing nations, I am sure, would mostly turn around and say "no, we are not changing, you did it your way, no why should we listen to what you say?"
But they also know they aren't all doing it right, and developement is simply an ever smaller amount of people who earn all benefits from developement, and all things it can bring along

Perfect example is Brazils reaction to the developed world telling them to cut down on the rainforest use. (note the wonderful pun! lol..)
We learnt from our mistakes, they don't listen, well, later they'll regret to have acted like we did, and not what we tell now, because that's what they do.
Just because other did it, doesn't mean you should do it too

The idea is very naive and well wouldnt work.

As for the melting of the ice caps, ice has displacement in water. Even if they all melt, the sea wont rise by enough to cause any amount of terrible damage that the world wide built sea walls cannot handle.
Sadly, not all countries are caring/rich enough like Netherlands about that..so yes, for countries like Netherlands, nothing will happen. However, Louisiane and Bangladesh will suffer, the first because of non caring, second because of serious lack of cash...So New Orleans will be in serious danger.

Global warming and other change? Well our leaders are already trying to tackle that, and well, they aint doin too hot, lets face it.
Doing too hot? You mean they aren't doing well?

This world cannot be saved, humanity is too pathetic to save itself. Even if we manage to preserve the planet, which is highly unlikely, then I doubt there will be any real culture or vestiges of character worth saving within the human race.
Here we go (again)! I'm not going to argue about it, we both know that's not doing good for topics to stay on such things!

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:00 am**

sigh, you people seriously need to go find out what is driving global warming and i can tell you now its not people!

yes, people are having an impact on the environment but its NOT people that are causing the ice caps to melt...unless you people are suggesting that there are people on mars and on the moons of jupitor and saturn driving cars around because those planetary bodies are also losing their caps?

its the sun thats causing global warming, 9000 scientists have signed a petition (backed up by evidence from the historical records which show temperatures much higher than they are today and from ice cores) urging the governments to tell the truth about it, but governments wont tell the truth because they want to bring in a global carbon tax. that is shear madness since plants need carbon to live and produce oxygen

whats even more crazy is that people watch al gores film which shows nobody rebuking his lies and people believe it and give him the Nobel peace price for a film based on lies

and as for the population, well people know where i stand on that!

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:31 am**

[KMA]Avenger wrote:sigh, you people seriously need to go find out what is driving global warming and i can tell you now its not people!

yes, people are having an impact on the environment but its NOT people that are causing the ice caps to melt...unless you people are suggesting that there are people on mars and on the moons of jupitor and saturn driving cars around because those planetary bodies are also losing their caps?

its the sun thats causing global warming, 9000 scientists have signed a petition (backed up by evidence from the historical records which show temperatures much higher than they are today and from ice cores) urging the governments to tell the truth about it, but governments wont tell the truth because they want to bring in a global carbon tax. that is shear madness since plants need carbon to live and produce oxygen

whats even more crazy is that people watch al gores film which shows nobody rebuking his lies and people believe it and give him the Nobel peace price for a film based on lies

and as for the population, well people know where i stand on that!

lol...you know avenger I hear the government is secretly run by little green men from the planet jupiter. I have 30,000 people that could sign a petition saying they saw evidence to support this. :wink:

@Jim...
1.Your plan is not going to happen any time soon, it would take decades to be proven and for you to gain the support and begin planning it properly. It would take many more decade for it to actually have effect. Like I said to you previously, it just does not have the time or backing to be of any use. It would be a plan that took the best part of a century to be set in motion, but which time it would be too late, and maybe by a few years. I mean when was the first band aid? 30 years ago! The developing world is not that much better off then it was. Its a useless idea.

2.The addition of contraception...well thats already being sent! If it is introduced quickly it will not be accepted as effectively as it would be introduced slowly. Trust me on that one.

3.In all honesty, and I am not making fun of you. I didnt really quite grasp the next few points. If I read correctly, your just admitting your idea would be a stall to pospone in the future. It wont be. IF, and thats a very big IF, it was ever used, by the time it has come into play (at the risk of sounding like a broke record) there would be a handful of years to find a solution, by which point we cannot know what point we would be at. We could be living on the moon, could have invented mega cities, hell we could have even had a war. The time scale is too massive to try and control the population of the developing world for soo long for such a little effort. We need to concentrate on developing the economy and enviroment of the developed world to create a stable foundation to build up from in the future.

4. Like i said. Humanity is too selfish. The idea will never work, the sooner you see the wisdom in ones words the better.

and it can be too 'hot' just replacing well with hot. its an adaptation of the original phrase to fit in with modern references. (eg. a hot person is doing well physically, a hot country is a great place to visit in common conception...etc etc etc..)

Posted: **Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:00 am**

[KMA]Avenger wrote:whats even more crazy is that people watch al gores film which shows nobody rebuking his lies and people believe it and give him the Nobel peace price for a film based on lies

Al Gore is a **Filtered** dumb **Filtered**. I cannot stand him, he has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of scientist will tell you that, and its crazy he gets the Nobel Peace Prize because of a power point presentation. Now he's running a scam selling carbon credits and people buy into that **Filtered**.

And check this out (and watch for the sheer entertainment).

Being Green Part 1
Being Green Part 2
Being Green Part 3

Posted: **Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:07 am**

Kieltyka wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:whats even more crazy is that people watch al gores film which shows nobody rebuking his lies and people believe it and give him the Nobel peace price for a film based on lies

Al Gore is a **Filtered** dumb **Filtered**. I cannot stand him, he has no idea what he is talking about. A lot of scientist will tell you that, and its crazy he gets the Nobel Peace Prize because of a power point presentation. Now he's running a scam selling carbon credits and people buy into that **Filtered**.

And check this out (and watch for the sheer entertainment).

Being Green Part 1
Being Green Part 2
Being Green Part 3

Oh and now the filtered word enters that topic...

*sigh*

/facepalm

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:48 am**

Semper wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:sigh, you people seriously need to go find out what is driving global warming and i can tell you now its not people!

yes, people are having an impact on the environment but its NOT people that are causing the ice caps to melt...unless you people are suggesting that there are people on mars and on the moons of jupitor and saturn driving cars around because those planetary bodies are also losing their caps?

its the sun thats causing global warming, 9000 scientists have signed a petition (backed up by evidence from the historical records which show temperatures much higher than they are today and from ice cores) urging the governments to tell the truth about it, but governments wont tell the truth because they want to bring in a global carbon tax. that is shear madness since plants need carbon to live and produce oxygen

whats even more crazy is that people watch al gores film which shows nobody rebuking his lies and people believe it and give him the Nobel peace price for a film based on lies

and as for the population, well people know where i stand on that!

lol...you know avenger I hear the government is secretly run by little green men from the planet jupiter. I have 30,000 people that could sign a petition saying they saw evidence to support this.

it would be pretty hard to say that 30,000 people are liars, but meh, if you want to believe in little green men then thats between you and your psychiatrist to sort out

Posted: **Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:50 pm**

[KMA]Avenger wrote:
Semper wrote:
[KMA]Avenger wrote:sigh, you people seriously need to go find out what is driving global warming and i can tell you now its not people!

yes, people are having an impact on the environment but its NOT people that are causing the ice caps to melt...unless you people are suggesting that there are people on mars and on the moons of jupitor and saturn driving cars around because those planetary bodies are also losing their caps?

its the sun thats causing global warming, 9000 scientists have signed a petition (backed up by evidence from the historical records which show temperatures much higher than they are today and from ice cores) urging the governments to tell the truth about it, but governments wont tell the truth because they want to bring in a global carbon tax. that is shear madness since plants need carbon to live and produce oxygen

whats even more crazy is that people watch al gores film which shows nobody rebuking his lies and people believe it and give him the Nobel peace price for a film based on lies

and as for the population, well people know where i stand on that!

lol...you know avenger I hear the government is secretly run by little green men from the planet jupiter. I have 30,000 people that could sign a petition saying they saw evidence to support this.

it would be pretty hard to say that 30,000 people are liars, but meh, if you want to believe in little green men then thats between you and your psychiatrist to sort out

it would be very easy to say 30,000 people are liars. Out of over 6billion on the planet? 30,000 is an insignificant number.

Posted: **Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:57 am**

30,000 people to save the world from lizard people and aliens...however, I think those are less threatening than what growth of population will do if it carries on.
Disappearance of forests and animals. And slowly but surely become like in Fifth Element movie. No nature. Just buildings. Infinitely high buildings. And pollution. That's what our children will receive as a gift from our generation and past ones.
And there, the aliens and lizard people will can insert themselves alot more easily, and in alot bigger numbers :shock:

More people there are, less an addition of never before seen people is noticed...and more this addition can be big.

The invasion already started! :lol:

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:51 pm**

So, okay seriously, why believe in Global Warming, what the oceans have drop like 2 degrees in 2000 freakin years? wow...... :shock:

Who cares, also, look at old weather patterns and compare them to new, there is slight difference in change, and really its to be expected, the only thing happening to the world is that its getting "Older" so things happen, its apart of life, Al gore, and lots of other liberals have made their millions from advertising this crap. and people believe anything when they want to. its all non-sense.....

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:35 pm**

First off that's a fairly narrow minded conclusion Legend, and holds no validity whatsoever. Compared to weather patterns from the last 600,000 years the earth has never experienced surges of CO2 even relatively close to half of where we're at now. The CO2 is building, and the temperature will follow, as has been the pattern for over half a million years with the last six ice ages.

And a planet will most definitely not get old over the course of three or four lifetimes; considering that this planet is approximately 4.5Billion years old, even changes over a 300 year period would be like a newborn aging to become the worlds oldest person overnight. The planet is definitely not "getting old", especially not over the course of only .0000000067% of the earths life ( I worked it out, that percent is relatively accurate). To put that in accurate perspective, it's the equivalent of a baby aging 80 years in .0000019564 of a day, or 0.169 seconds (I worked that out also, it's accurately proportional).

According to a NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) press release, "...the solar increases do not have the ability to cause large global temperature increases...greenhouse gases are indeed playing the dominant role..."

~Stanford Center of Solar Research, http://solar-center.stanford.edu/sun-on ... -warm.html.

There are a few things to note here; our CO2 levels have multiplied by more than six times the natural amount that occurs before a warming period (which occurs before an ice age). Of course, there's a problem here. With global temperatures reaching 30 degrees Celsius and above currently, and CO2 levels going up by upwards of 400%, the temperatures can and likely will reach 120 degrees Celsius (not Fahrenheit).

Do you see a problem? Let me put it to you this way: human skin begins to burn at around 60 degrees Celsius, and it takes just one second for that burn to occur. Compared to10 minutes at 49 degrees Celsius, people will surely say "oh, there's no danger".

There's another point to be looked at. Everyone seems to have this gung ho "save the planet" attitude. We aren't saving the planet though; the planet will go on without us, plants and animals will once again come to live on earth after we are all gone, because no matter how harsh global warming gets, we literally can't kill the planet; we can make conditions unlivable for plants and animals, which will eventually come back a few hundred million years from now (which isn't all that much in planetary standards). We can't kill the planet; only ourselves.

Another point to be looked at is the fact that with such a high population it would be extremely easy for a contagious disease to spread at an extremely fast rate. It would be impossible to contain it. 28 days later? Without zombies of course, it's completely possible as soon as the human population gets so large. Especially if it's an airborne virus.

And Avenger I would love for you to link me to that petition so I can verify it's credibility.

I would also like to point out that when people begin to criticize it's because they have no more valid points to argue, and they subconsciously know that they're arguing a false point (I live with a psychologist). *ahem* Kieltyka *ahem*

If you have no valid points to back up an argument then please don't bother making one, it usually tends to be distasteful based on the premise above.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:09 pm**

but if they only begin to criticize then the natural implication there is that they are still doing some logical point making, or maybe the criticizing is part of the logical point making or maybe a reaction of a far superior arguer demeaning someone they view and have proven as beneath them.

I agree with your points against Jim, but as for your latter, I do not. You provided the facts I had not the energy to acquire.

Posted: **Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:34 pm**

Wow, okay, im shutting up now :-D

Or i could do some of my own researching, but i have no time to do such thing.....

Posted: **Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:55 am**

Semper wrote:but if they only begin to criticize then the natural implication there is that they are still doing some logical point making, or maybe the criticizing is part of the logical point making or maybe a reaction of a far superior arguer demeaning someone they view and have proven as beneath them.

I agree with your points against Jim, but as for your latter, I do not. You provided the facts I had not the energy to acquire.

I don't mean criticize as in intelligently critique; criticizing as in "that's stupid", "Al Gore is a **Filtered** bastard", etc. without evidence to back it up.

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