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*Uber Geekz Mode*

So i was wondering about Youtube today, As you do, And found a load of videos cultimanateing in hours of footage, About skirmishes between these 2 sci fi series's.

So i figured there has got to be enough geeks here to disscuss...So. We should first lay down the rules.

Any of the Main races/alliances and empires, from these Two respective Universes can be used. So ,

For Star Trek, We would have (From TNG Era) :

-Federation
-Romulan
-Klingon
-Borg
-Cardassian
-Dominion
-Vulcans
-Breen
-Ferengi

For Babylon 5, we have :

-Earth Alliance (Includeing Psi Corps)
-Rangers
-Minbari
-Shadows
-Vorlons
-Narn
-Centauri
-League Of non Alligned Worlds (Drazi, Vree, Brackiri, and So on...)

Now, Nevermind Into Universe Conflicts, both these Universes have set aside there politcal differences within, to settle the greater Conflict. This was a Joke created By Q Because he was bored, before anyone decides to ask the question Why, there is your answer

So, lets Disscuss it...

There is far too much to go into on my own, but im sure it wil all be covered in due time, So i wont go into Ship Specifics, YET (that is going to be fun ), Weapons Etc, but the Main Advantage Point of the Babylon Races, Which i will make now, are :

-Jump Engines, Unlike warp drive, you Cannot Detect these until they form, so there is little prior warning that you are about to be engaged.

-Minbari, Ranger, Some Earth Alliance and Vorlon and Shadow Ships, All have organic Technology, and uber stealth technology, Which could make them invisible to Star trek Sensors.

-Babylon 5 Weapons , I think there is little doubting that in the grand sceme of things, babylon 5 genre weapons are far more powerful, The Cutting Beams, The main Cannon on the excalibre Class, The Forward Cannons On omega Classes, the Vorlon insane planet killing weapons, and Shadow Death Clowd, And such. Offenseivly there isnt anything i can think of from TNG that could out firepower a White Star, Minus Perhaps the Borg Cube. Neverming a Blue Star Shatara Class, Or an Advanced Omega Class, or even a Narn heavy Cruiser, And we arent even onto the Vorlon Behemoth's yet...

-B5 fighters , There arnt alot of fighters knocking about in Star Trek, Whereas B5 Has Some uber Manouveable Fighters, which in squads are capable of takeing out Massive Ships. These Include the minbari Nial Class and The EA StarFury Classes.

Star Trek Advantages :

Sheild Technology - The Clear advantage of the star trek universe is the shield technology, However behind this, even with Defiant Type ablasive armour, and at last gasp defence, Polariseing the hull (thanks enterprise ) there isnt a lot behind these. Wether these Shields would really Hold Out is a different matter, the final battle could well depend on which is more effective, Sheilds, Which can be taken down and take a while to rebuild, Or the organic B5 technology, which can repair itself at a fairly quick rate.

Cloaking technology - Just at B5 has Jump technology which Star trek will not be able to detect, So does Star trek have Cloaking technology, Most Obviously, The Klingons and Romulans employ this, However, you cannot engage warp with this, as you can be detected, and you cannot fire while cloaked either, which is a bit of a setback.

Neutral Points - Accuracy, Both Star Trek And Babylon 5 have advanced targeting systems, and are highly accurate with all Beam Weapons, however Torpeados on Both sides, and Blaster Weaponry on B5 sides, do have a habit of missing. So if it comes down to Phasers Vs Cutting Beams, My money Would be on cutting beams....

Continue!

ok, i see no definitive proof of the superiority of the B5 ships weapons.
however, the shadows and Vorlons would be the main force opposing the Borg, as the Borg possess highly advanced technology, and the Vorlons and Shadows are among the "first ones". since there's two against one in that match up, i'm half tempted to say the power players game would be won by the b5 group, but there's also size considerations, of which i have no idea how big the Vorlon and Shadows empires were... granted the shadows phasing into hyperspace would be a huge advantage :/

all in all, i'm going to have to agree it would probably be the B5 universe winning against the ST universe.

Jack wrote:The Borg would adapt, and assimilate the B5 tech extremely quickly.

if they survive the first shot, which is the real question here.

Seeing how much the Borg sucked against 8472, I would say a single Whitestar squadron could whack the entire Collective. If there is such a thing as whacking the Collective.. since destroying them here, means them relocating their assets to there. Destroying them there means they relocate again. They are too decentralised for effective annihilation, unless it is instantaneously executed everywhere. Individual B5 tech can be assimilated as usual.


Points Against B5:

Jump Drive.
Yes, it is invisible until showing up right on your doorstep, but it HAS to show up at almost always the same location. The nature of the space traversed when jumping requires that one travels along generic routes so as not to get lost and re-emerge in the middle of a star.
Let the record state that the Rangers were able to track fleets in Hyperspace using ships hovering in hyperspace near systems with communications arrays capable of boosting the Ranger's signal to the required system.. Theoretically, should ST acquire access to a jumpgate, they could employ this tactic to keep watch in Hyperspace and effectively neutralise the 'surprise' in surprise attack.

Organic Technology.
Star Trek's universe may have the single largest collection of viruses available to any series. Anyone remember the staging ground for the mad cloning doctor in ST? Filled with the Universe's most deadly viruses and other stuff, as if they would need to keep that around. Now that they fight B5, they are happy with them.. all those pesky little organic techs will surely fall.

First Ones.
Borg > First One.
Especially the Giants among the stars, which will not fight, and as such are easily taken by the Borg. Possessing their power and knowledge, Borg will empower countless Jem'Hadar to lay waste to all weaker races, and move against the Vorlon and Shadow themselves.

Inaccuracy.
Vorlons and Shadow don't bother aiming, they just destroy entire planets as they come across them. Inaccuracy would seem like a little problem with such immense power, but given the incredible inaccuracy of the lesser races (how often do single fighters/freighters or other weaklings jump into a heavily fortified system, only to make their way out almost intact?), one can argue that the Shadow and Vorlon will forget to check which side planets belong to, and will ruthlessly slaughter billions in order to get to their goals.

Population.
B5 universe is FAR less densely populated as the ST Universe. The Borg Collective alone numbers in the trillions of drones.. never mind the numerous Dominion worlds and their populations.

First Ones vs. Nacene.
Who said Nacene are dead? They were reportedly still in the universe, just not the Galaxy. So calling on the Nacene to fight the First Ones is a pretty bold move.



I wonder who will be the first to call on Cthulhu.

if 8472 are classed as the ST universe that would be a good advantage.

theres also the question of the advanced ships from the episodes that deal with the future (advanced enterprise, modified voyager). they are mad powerful. the borg are kind of weak but once they get hold of the advanced B5 technology they will rampage.

and think about the romulon ship from the nemesis film. that can destroy a planet. ST would also add its own 'ancient races' who had power to move suns, build a sphere around a sun, travel instantly throughout the galaxy etc. thats serious potential power.

B5 has some good ships and military ability but the numbers, organisation, technology and experience of ST would pwn the day methinks

what about stargate universe ships (dedalus class, ancient warships etc) entering this fight. how would they fare you think?

I'l Just mix things up slightly by Proclaiming I will post later when im not uber busy, AND...


For the LuLz.

Transporters would wreak havoc on the B5 universe.

well....

Borg.

Vorlon whatever they are called sound like they could give anything a run for their money, but then again with the shadow hanging around I am not too sure.

Its very difficult to say.

If you added the Stargate Universe, then we all know that virus', nanites could all be used to wipe out any of the above.

And if it were Galactic empire era Star Wars, then if the overpowering Star Destroyers could not do the job, then I am sure some weired and wonderful imperial tech or force motivated scheme could do the same.

I remember two years back, there was a massive thread on all this, where it bogged down to Ascended beings vs Q vs Force users.

Isn't it genereally accepted by Star Trek VS Star Wars peeps that the Ships in SW outclass the ships in ST?

i'm a tad rusty

but wasn't there an episode of babylon 5 with a potion/medicine which had the potential to make you immortal?

which the vorlons destroyed as they deemed others unworthy/not yet ready for it?

if so, then potentially all the species of babylon 5 could gain immortality, and they would win by default

yeah there was an immortal potion which costed a life to gain anothers immortality so naturally the vorlons wouldnt trust humans with such a thing.. i know i wouldnt , i have seen every episode of B5 its epic...

Vorlons and Shadows would dominate any ST race i have seen, although i havent seen every ST ep but yeah, vorlons have planet eaters and other ships, the vorlon fleet that you see wipe out the shadows isnt their whole force but only a taste test to show the lower races their power which helped form them together... Star treck tech is just to old... its ideas are like 10 year behind the futureistic ideas of power that b5 has lol. But yeah Highly evolved minds that can take enrgy form *vorlons* would win

No need to even use the humans, minbar, narn etc.

Sabin le Rose wrote:Isn't it genereally accepted by Star Trek VS Star Wars peeps that the Ships in SW outclass the ships in ST?

no, the argument in ST's favor is the maneuverability of their ships, which is on par, if not better than SW's starfighters. in addition, ST has additional options for tactics not considered conventional. (a tactic used in ST canon was to use a tractor beam to pull fusion energy from a star in order to destroy shipyards in the system, such a tactic isn't feasible with the SW tractor beam tech)

but the truth of the matter, is that there's very few Sci Fi shows which actually use "proper space drive physics" and B5 is one of those. ST might be able to qualify, if it's revealed to be using a Gravitic Drive, but i'm not sure how the "impulse" system works, so i dunno.

Scratch the Impulse system being Gravitic drive. it's a "highly evolved" rocket type engine based off a fusion reactor.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

Psi Kiya Trist wrote:

Sabin le Rose wrote:Isn't it genereally accepted by Star Trek VS Star Wars peeps that the Ships in SW outclass the ships in ST?

no, the argument in ST's favor is the maneuverability of their ships, which is on par, if not better than SW's starfighters. in addition, ST has additional options for tactics not considered conventional. (a tactic used in ST canon was to use a tractor beam to pull fusion energy from a star in order to destroy shipyards in the system, such a tactic isn't feasible with the SW tractor beam tech)

but the truth of the matter, is that there's very few Sci Fi shows which actually use "proper space drive physics" and B5 is one of those. ST might be able to qualify, if it's revealed to be using a Gravitic Drive, but i'm not sure how the "impulse" system works, so i dunno.

Scratch the Impulse system being Gravitic drive. it's a "highly evolved" rocket type engine based off a fusion reactor.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

nooo...Imperial Star Destroyers are meant to be very fast. I do believe Han Solo makes the point that they are catching even the falcon.

But anyway...Star Wars would pwn...and so would SG...but they are not here...

so...back to B5 and ST....

I would like to point out to all of the above numb nutts that becoming IMMORTAL does NOT make one INVINCIBLE or OMNIPOTENT.

Immortal means you dont die of old age. It can mean you dont get ill either. Thats it...lol.

I wont deny it is a very coveted gift, and everlasting life could lead to the other two, but they are very different things in reality.

So the Vorlons immortality potion is not really a deal breaker.

Semper wrote:

Psi Kiya Trist wrote:

Sabin le Rose wrote:Isn't it genereally accepted by Star Trek VS Star Wars peeps that the Ships in SW outclass the ships in ST?

no, the argument in ST's favor is the maneuverability of their ships, which is on par, if not better than SW's starfighters. in addition, ST has additional options for tactics not considered conventional. (a tactic used in ST canon was to use a tractor beam to pull fusion energy from a star in order to destroy shipyards in the system, such a tactic isn't feasible with the SW tractor beam tech)

but the truth of the matter, is that there's very few Sci Fi shows which actually use "proper space drive physics" and B5 is one of those. ST might be able to qualify, if it's revealed to be using a Gravitic Drive, but i'm not sure how the "impulse" system works, so i dunno.

Scratch the Impulse system being Gravitic drive. it's a "highly evolved" rocket type engine based off a fusion reactor.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

nooo...Imperial Star Destroyers are meant to be very fast. I do believe Han Solo makes the point that they are catching even the falcon.

strawman. i said Maneuverability, not speed. but to rebuttal anyway, ST ships are capable of going 80% the speed of light at least, it's also theorized that they can go FASTER than the speed of light on impulse power alone, though this is highly impractical. and the reason most ships in ST don't go this fast normally is due to "time dilation effects", which is also accounted for in SW physics with a special shield while in hyperspace, but not in normal space. in addition we can't know the normal speed of SW ships because they're measured in differant units of measurement...

also, FYI, the ISD has a top speed listed of 60 MGLT, the Falcon is listed with a top speed of 80 MGLT, a retcon may be needed, but methinks there's a problem with your statement.

proofs:
[spoiler]

By the 2270s, impulse was capable of sustaining Warp .8 without the warp drive even being online. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture)

Dialogue from several episodes, including "Where No Man Has Gone Before", and "The Doomsday Machine" suggests that the impulse drive could be used in some manner to propel a ship at faster than light speeds, albeit with a lower maximum speed and a higher rate of fuel consumption than the main warp drive.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Impulse_drive

Relativistic shielding is the term for a specific type of shielding installed on hyperspace-capable ships. They protected the ship from a time dilation effect.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Relativistic_shield

The relationship between the MGLT and acceleration in multiples of G, which is used in many recent sources,[5][6] is not yet known

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Megalight
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial ... _Destroyer
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Millennium_Falcon[/spoiler]

though, this is all very off topic.

~_+Psi Kiya Trist+_~

It isnt the vorlons immortality potion.. and your right it doesnt stop you from die'ing just invunerable to disease and ageing, but thats besides the point, vorlons and shadows live for extreme amount of time.. probably have used the potion thing, but besides that.. they seem to be way more evolved then ST races with better and more powerfull tech. I would actually go as far as to say they humans and Minbar would prolly win alone