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Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:10 am
by S T I
I am sure there have been other posts about this.

but i will say my piece

The forums are the heart of SGW community

but the state of forums have gone down so much i am shocked, it was bad before i went traveling.

all the great posters have left, its now full of a bunch of squabbling children, i use the word children for a reason, children don't know when to stop they learn as they mature (or should do).

Whats been destroyed is a fantastic learning ground, I have seen some amazing posts by some amazing people from all over the world.

I have seen young people from all over the world (English, not being their first language) come on these forums & grow in stature & the use of the English language grow amazingly.

not any more, all they are learning is trash

so i say to you, who are responsible [-X

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:25 am
by Brdavs
Well neverending wars tend to do that I guess...

But dang, that was faster than even I had guessed. Dont tell me, you`re thinking of starting a Non-Aligned Movement? :P



But seriously, is there a better way to learn proficiency in a language and develope a sharp witt than in a conflict... In at the deep end, swimm or die. Its an account eat account world out there. The kid that doesnt develope a thick enough skin doesnt grow up to have kids of hisown. Beauty of sheer terror.

Ok so I said "seriously" and didn`t mean it, sue me. :-D

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:45 am
by teesdale
hehe, its a bit like that ay, but wats worse, is the lovly PMs from when ya mass the hell outta someone out of the blue... hoo boy, learn some nice words then xD
on the flip side, when i first started playing, i tryed the whole "kind and curtious" thing, didnt work, the best thing to do is go with the flow, agree to the insults and build a bridge n get over it ;) av some fun, ignore the insults directed at you and just close the window, works every time... then theres this "foe" button found someware ive heard oh so much about... never used it though in the chance i miss that epic 1 in a trillion post. :lol:

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:47 am
by buck
Children will be children...We cant do alot about that...

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:17 am
by Robe
I don't think these forums have changed much in the past 3 years.

Although I do think Buck's new Batman Signature adds a touch of class ;)

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:23 am
by Casshern
Now what can we expect when the children are running the asylum.

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:47 am
by Mordack
The game in general is going through a rough patch. More and more players are leaving, and many of those that remain are disillusioned by unsatisfactory updates and neverending wars. The forums aren't the root of the problem, they're just a reflection.

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:54 am
by dresnov
Every player that posts on this forum is responsible for their own posts but since you cant control what anyone is gonna post you will always have this *children* talk trash and ruin topics.
Its just the way it is.

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:07 am
by Teal'auc of the Void
I've given up pretty much on the forums. Tried to help, got ditched... so no, thanks. Yes, when children run the show, hardly anything one can do.



Teal'auc

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:21 am
by smallville
children grow up eventually, but even so: * can't help being *

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:52 pm
by semper
The Nox wrote:The Young do not always do as they are told


What you are referring to as a new attribute of the forum is an opinion and as the debatable non existent Obi Wan Kenobi said...
You are going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own points of view.

I assure you, this attribute is not an isolated thing and can be applied to a great many countries and cultures around the world, more of, if not at least the same amount, as the ones you are probably thinking of when you pointed out such a range.

Though as to what you refer to exactly, whether it be a lack of respect (the general attribute I am referring to above), the standard of use of the english language (in which case, there is nothing you can do) or the sheer lack of greater thought behind most of the post's that are made in this forum, I am not sure. Possibly all of the above and more.

I would simply point out to you STI that change of this sort is inevitable, no matter its source or direction it will come, all you can do is cope with it best you can, this is still a place of learning for as many as it is a place of equal entertainment to the game or socialising opportunity with a varied pool of culture and character.

Live in the moment, have all the fun you can with what you can get.

btw...Mordack, nice post, you have probably just been added to the very short list of people I respect around here, it was very insightful.

Now, thats enough of me out of character for one day! Back to my Dr Cox role playing! NOOOOOOOOBY!!! :-D

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:01 pm
by Lore
Mordack wrote:The game in general is going through a rough patch. More and more players are leaving, and many of those that remain are disillusioned by unsatisfactory updates and never ending wars. The forums aren't the root of the problem, they're just a reflection.


=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


I'd also like to add that in many, many instances it the "older" players who have soured the forums in many ways. Constantly pushing every rule and crying foul at every action leved against them. Combined with the unadulterated mudslinging and slander to the point of hate. It has been and still remains a sad state of affairs.

I also do note that forum administrations have not always acted in the best intrest of the community, just as the users themselves also haven't.

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:26 pm
by semper
Lore wrote:
Mordack wrote:The game in general is going through a rough patch. More and more players are leaving, and many of those that remain are disillusioned by unsatisfactory updates and never ending wars. The forums aren't the root of the problem, they're just a reflection.


=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


I'd also like to add that in many, many instances it the "older" players who have soured the forums in many ways. Constantly pushing every rule and crying foul at every action leved against them. Combined with the unadulterated mudslinging and slander to the point of hate. It has been and still remains a sad state of affairs.

I also do note that forum administrations have not always acted in the best intrest of the community, just as the users themselves also haven't.


ohhhh...come on Lore, you can give some examples.

Some of us have reasons though, the continuous inadequacies of the forum staff, the illogical and re-occurring tolerance of people like Tok'ra and D Toc cs, constant waves of new players with 0 respect for those of us who have been round for a long time, all happy in our role play and then we cannot do a thing without one of them being too young to comprehend the word 'act' and acting like a 4 year old. No Wonder some of us have become bitter and create 'mean' or pedantic persona's to retaliate in a place where wisdom and knowledge have about as much standing as who can be the nicest kindest person in the land of puppy dogs and fairy tales.

If the people who were meant to look after the forum had continued to do a proper job, I am NOT saying the place would be fixed by a LOOOOONG shot, but it would be a dam sight far better off then it is. Policing it, organising it. I mean, you Robe and Buck have been admins for...3-4weeks now, what notable changes have you three done? The mod team is STILL a shambles, half the forum is either an outdated mess with little to no relevance or a mod has become some form of urban myth. I am very fond of you and Buck, sincerely and I hope what I just typed should never mean more then a friend showing their personal concern and opinion (as far as that goes with me..)

I still have faith you three will be the best admins since day 1, but the point of what I have said is, if anything, use this thread and others of similar natures as a base for improvements to start acting.

God that was a load of over dramatic setimentality that I am sitting here wondering why I had to use soo much rhetoric and justification to state the obvious and be all friendly and make a big deal from an online internet game forum. The alcohol has got to me. I am off to bed...

cue Severian....

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:38 pm
by Severian
Semper wrote:cue Severian....


Don't mind if I do 8)

This topic is quite meh for me though and something I tried fixing over a long duration of time unsuccessfully with stories, detailed posts and always posting an alternative opinion so posters and alliances could read two opinions rather than succumb to the almighty uni voice. So I say as a last resort, splice Semper & Wolf359 for a good balance, Clone said unholy abomination a hundred times, let loose on forums and problem solved.

But in all seriousness, I've stated my thoughts on this problem many times before to willingly deaf ears and find it amusing that now this issue has become a politically viable thing to say that select people are expressing certain views which I must admit evoked a giggle when you cross reference with what was said and done, condoned or ignored 6-12 months ago in the last great hurrah.

People made their bed, ignored all warning signs or pleas for reason and basic decency/respect and now complaining that it’s an uncomfortable sleep?

I love vindication.

Standard
[spoiler]
  • Changing Demographics and expanding social networks on forums leading to a lack of diversity, the creation of a large uni voice and the consolidation of the "Us" against "Them" sentiment.
  • Changing purpose of forums as it is now seen as a battleground where the objective is to degrade to demoralise due to the failure of proper game mechanics to settle scores.
  • A series of lax, incompetent or corrupt administrators promoting abusive culture as well as a series of scandals removing almost all faith in the team and respect of their position/words which allowed such culture to spread and sink its roots in deep.
  • A lot of people dropped the ball and no one was man enough to admit it.
[/spoiler]

High Definition
[spoiler]As for the topic at hand; People say that the problem arises because a select group of individuals left? More like the unwelcoming environment drove them from forums and ensured that the void they left remained vacant.

Being different is taboo. Being against the grain is seen as almost an offense in a polarised server. How dare they question what we as a large collective believe in. How dare they spread propaganda? It used to be that people accepted your view and either did or did not agree with it. Now even holding a different view is looked down upon as a grave misjudgement or a malign and intentional undermining of those large collectives.

Pack mentality. People back their mates, people believe their mates and when that social networking chain rides off the back of a rather large faction, suddenly the forums are drowned of diversity, the free independent voices broken down and degraded until silenced. Look back then, look now. Two things changed.

1. Size of factions and forum presence.
2. Boundaries Pushed.

The first relates to the polarised server and how that then reflects on forums. No longer alliances, now empires means more voices, reduced demographics as larger collectives absorb and take over diversity and not only that but this is further increased in that holding a major presence on forums was encouraged. So rise in numbers and rise in interest and recognition of the usefulness of a forum presence lead to a large change. The death of the old mid range alliances and lack of proper replacements also widened the gap in demographics on forums and is even reflected in the moderation team (A dozen from one group, individuals from others).

Also the forums were no longer a community site but a valid battlefield where you specifically went in numbers, spammed and attacked people, refusing to accept their opinion as it was seen as "conceding" to the enemy where in times past even if you did not agree with their opinion, you accepted it as a valid stance. So Demographics shift in the wrong direction to a more uni-voice rather than diverse voice and the purpose of forums also changed. The two big whammies.

People now specifically go out of their way to be horrible on forums, people intentionally provoke and attempt to ruin others playing experience as when their domination was finally questioned they conceived a new final solution.

Degrade someone long enough for them to become indifferent. Make them not want to even log into the game, make it as unwelcoming as possible, harass them to the point where they no longer find joy in the game, where the game becomes a chore and a burden they'll eventually drop and that is the way to win the game.

Kind of harsh, but at the same time as this tactic arises en-mass and in sanctioned environments, there is also the rise of the licence of "it’s only a game and therefore I hold no responsibility and more importantly no guilt over degrading a community, making thought out posts taboo, validating the removal of basic respect".

The second point ties in with this. People forgot fear. You could no longer mash someone and expect them to roll over and quit. 0 Staters could do damage, the small could inflict punishment on the large without losing much in return. Wars became long drawn out conflicts when this was realised on a large scale and so the battlefield therefore was transferred to the forums and to morale and mental fortitude. In such an environment people pushed boundaries, people grew more bold and ambitious in their ways to attack or degrade others to win wars and the complete and utter failure of a succession of administrators did little to stop this growing phenomenon and in fact promoted such things by lifting, removing or reducing restrictions to allow the freedom to do it.

In effect, the point of the game is to abuse and to remain guilt free we say "Its only a game".

That’s what we've become, that’s our bed and that is the core issue that gnaws away at this community.

So a nice little phrase to tie it all up;

It takes stubborness to stand up for yourself, loyalty to stand up for others but true courage to stand up to yourself.

Note: This is not to say we go as far on the opposite side of the scales and dance around in the medows with Bob Dylan on but rather find some middle ground and settle there.[/spoiler]

To my usual groupies, call it what you will, I have expressed this opinion many times in the course of the past year and still stand by it. The only difference between now and then is that today the things I expressed are a lot more prominent.

Re: Forum Demiise

Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:38 pm
by REK
I blame Jake live with him for 3 months it will drive you mad :-D