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This is in a sense a reply to dralegs topic about the war. I have posted it here because I do not want this to be buried on page 3 of a topic and never ever read, because it is important, at least to me if not everyone else. If the mods believe this is not the case then feel free to merge it or whatever.

As a player who now for all intesive purposes is no more (See Quitting Section), I feel I can speak freely about the politics and this war. Albeit it with my perhaps still slightly biased opinion.

The truth is that this war is built on anger, hatred and rivalry, plus also the power greed of certain individuals. I know you do not all need a history lesson, but this is it from my perspective, and to truly discribe the implications of this war involves and understanding of that history.

When I arrived in this game, and joined TÅTS, the biggest alliance in terms of army and stats was Omega. They were and still are an alliance who purposely throughout the games history have grouped together with other powerful alliances to form coalitions. Those coalitions then systematically wiped out anyone who they percieved as a threat. There was the Grand Alliance (with EPA and i dont know the others sorry). There was the Coalition of Paragons (with Dirty Dozen and Dark Dominion). There is now the so called "Fundamentally Unbreakable Alliance".

To name the alliances on the other side, the enemies of Omega is harder. Perhaps because for a long time they were never allowed to truly challenge. The only ones that spring to mind really from a long way back are Tauri Ålliance and Crystal Force (Yes I will dare say their name!). Surprise surprise when Crystal Force grew in power they were destroyed by the Grand Alliance, forced to disband in a big war.

With no natural enemies to hold them back, Omega instituted policies that could be considered "Absurd", "bullying" or perhaps "against the interest of the game". Instead of relishing the prospect of a new alliance building to challenge them, they did all they could to prevent it, particualry in the ascended server. Eventually many alliances grouped together to put an end to this, forming the so-called "Coalition of Independant Alliances". Together, around 12-14 alliances (sorry i dont remember the exact number) fought against the Coaliton of Paragons (CoP), and supposidly achieved their goal of ending the dominant reign of CoP. It was here that for the first time powerful challengers emerged to threaten Omega, namely The Legion.

Truth be told though Omega's reign did not truly end. Although Dirty Dozen parted company from Omega and Dark Dominion. Omega and Dark Dominion dealt with ths in their own way, simply forming new sub-alliances to house additional members, making up for the power-loss.

Here is where things get contradictory. The Legion responded by expanding and creating its empire. In the process they also grew in power, and began to mimic Omega's historical actions. Aiming to grow and achieve dominance, they hit hard at smaller alliances, trying to stomp out threats before they began. However this was not on as large scale as Omega had done in the past. (Also my personal opinion is that the Zion War was part of a larger struggle, but i cannot go into more detail).

So there was now two factions. FUALL and The Legion. War was basically inevitable. Why? Because they both wanted to take the power from each other. Eventually the ineveitable war began, that was months ago now. Many alliances have joined the war, each for their own reasons. Tauri Ålliance for example joined because of being bashed down by Omega so many times in the past. Same with The Order. Same with a lot of other alliances.

Draleg, you wanted to know where the game goes from here. You say its "Game Over", and in my opinion you are right. FUALL want to dominate the game without challenge. To build stats that can never be taken, yet to take everything from others. That is no game. There is no fun for anyone there. The Task Force however want to stop this from happening. They want the future to be a game where they can mass and have fun. If no single player or group dominates, then that is possible. But that would mean it is the end of FUALLs gameplay of domination. Game Over for FUALL.

So simply put this war is either the end of all decent gameplay in SGW, or the end of the biggest most powerful groups. If Omega did not seek so much power, other alliances would not have grouped together to counter it, and farmfests like this would not be neccessary.

Someone mentioned the fact that it is impossible to have a "winner" in a war here. That is incorrect, it is not impossible to have a winner if the terms are set. The problem lies in the development of the politics surrounding the empires and the mentality of the leaders. If the leaders fought simply for enjoyment rather than as a power struggle, then wars would have set terms (as the new ingame war systems do) and thus actual winners.

Unfortunately changing the mentality of the politicians is as improbable in StargateWars as it is in real life. They all crave power, yet when they get it they are still just playing at politics instead of bettering the world. I could rant on all day about George Bush, Gordan Brown and Vladimir Putin, but that is for another thread on another forum (perhaps the local pub). This is about StargateWars. In this game, this virtual environment we have created, the only way that this war can truly end is for the politicians to stop thinking politically. If FUALL and TLE truly want to have a fun game, then they need to stop seeking more power and instead think more about how they use the power they already have. To create a fun atmosphere for all players we must all step back and look carefully at ourselves and ask questions. Do I enjoy this game? If yes, what do I enjoy about the game?

I can tell you what I enjoyed about this game. Fighting alongside my friends. Massing AND being massed. I know many players also agree with me. One side is boring without the other. I can only hope that one day Omega realise that dominating without being challenged is not very fun. They only need look at the ascended server for proof, as the game there is better than ever because everyone is closer in terms of power. If the power seekers in main stop trying to dominate and start playing the game as it was meant to be, then and only then will it be a game worth playing.

~Norbe.

With power grows arrogance. Many larger players have grown accustomed to being dominant over others. It has become vital that in order to succeed in this game and grow, one must be deft at the political aspect. Out of boredom, players will often sit on an account just for a comment they didn't like. All too often, I see people saying things on forum they don't really mean, because if they said how they really felt, someone would get offended and attack.

This game needs to see a downfall of all these super alliances. The game will eventually cease to grow as fewer and fewer new players join up. Those that do inevitably end up on the wrong end of one of these monster players at one point or another. I see this war as a good thing for the game, so long as it leads to the destruction of both sides. I fear however, that it will take so long for that to become a reality that everyone will get bored and quit before that ever happens. Then, we will just be back where we were. I don't see this war ending anything. I would much rather see a cease-fire where everyone can rebuild, then let it start over. But war alone will not change this game. Whoever uses politics to their fullest use will be the victor in the long-term. Politics are what gains you respect. Abusing weaker players only earns you hate.

Too long!

Summary, plz.

well norbe while you are entitled to your opinion as everyone is. i can tell u that in my over 18 months playing sgw, i never had a bad run in with fuall alliances on the other hand the same can not be said for tle. i can't comment on the so called omega past crimes but i can on tle ones, if omega were bad tle became every bit as bad. this can be clearly seen from why the zion war started and their actions after this war in dealing with aeu and other alliances.
so i fight the task force and will continue to fight them while i'm in game and they are here 2.

fuall and task force aside, i see hope for this game. I see small war like alliances popping up like flowers, all having the take no prisoner attitude. What this great war has done, is to have bored a lot of players into thinking out side the box of what was, into what can be.

I do not agree.

There will always be an Omega. The same as we see in real life, there is always another nazi germany.

This is a wonderful spout of propaganda tbh...lol..If The task force win it will all be fun and games and if FUALL win it will indeed be game over....

BTW Norbe, in your post either end you have mentioned would not equal game over. As the very history of SGW shows the dominance of Omega can be challenged.

What a load of rubbish this entire thread is...in the wise words of master yoda..."See through you I can..."

This particular war was inevitable.

Various alliances came and wanted to be the strongest, which meant they were going to have to wrest the title from those seen as the strongest.

Having super powers in a game like this is inevitable. Power attracts power. You can't really expect someone with a powerful account and the will to use it to go into an alliance that is full of those beginning to play. They may sponsor one, but they won't actually be a member of it.

I think there is room for a super power(s) in the game but I do not think that TTF are worthy successors to FUALL/COP as they merely repeated the mistakes of the past. Having had dealings with both FUALL and the core members of TJP, I know which ones were a lot easier to deal with. I also believe that various FUALL members have offered some apologies for past actions. I do not know of any TTF people who have offered similar.

Getting rid of the super powers is not something that will really happen - why? Because the friendships are ingrained and the previous statement, power attracts power.

Oh you can 'disband' them but the same members will tend to stick together – let’s face it, the core membership of Crystal Force became Foundation of Evil, which then became The Legion (Mark II) which is now The Legion of the Dawn – this is a bit simplified I admit but illustrative. To a similar extent Death Before Dishonour simply became The Legion. There are other examples too I’m sure. The only way of getting rid of the existing super powers would be to remove all the older players and remove any friendships between the existing commands.

I think until the community as a whole is prepared to make the right decisions and actively and openly criticise alliances for actions the community consider wrong, then it won't matter. What may also help is respecting the boundary that an alliance or officer/commander. That would mean an alliance fights for itself. It does not go screaming to some other bigger brother or sister alliance or individual. The same applies for CO/Officer relations. The CO may fight for the officer but not the CO’s alliance. Until those boundaries have meaning again then we will continue to see some things spiral out of consideration and until people are willing to play, and by play I mean do more than sit there stat-less then the inevitability and degeneration of such wars is unavoidable and until people learn to compromise rather than hold out for a meaningless victory then these things will continue.

interesting read.... abit off point.... if you go down to the simple roots

Aesir aka Svarun and extremer labled traitors to Omega ( old grudge still to this day regardless of what they say)

TA/The order ( the original alliances ) vs The order of Chaos = ETL /REK and many others still imbedded in both Omega and DDE old grudges hence why we never let you forget what happenned in the past.. trust we know of what we have done and why we have done them yes after time our arrogance has grown but our friendship has expanded from game to real life many have come and one but we still are friends and we will always back each other so untill the elder Omegans and DDE members quit the game there will always be an Allegiance !

papa~smurf wrote:fuall and task force aside, i see hope for this game. I see small war like alliances popping up like flowers, all having the take no prisoner attitude. What this great war has done, is to have bored a lot of players into thinking out side the box of what was, into what can be.

The only difference between small alliances who war with everyone they so choose and large alliances who war with everyone they so choose is that the smaller alliances don't have as much to kill in return. At least with the big war, everyone had large stats to kill and there are still people who rebuild and allow for more fun to be had. If we get to the point where everyone switches gameplay to low defense, decent strike and masses whoever they can at all times, stats will become nonexistant in this game. Sorry if everyone massing eachother's 10 bill defenses doesn't thrill me.

About the TA relationship with Omega, as you said REK, our dispute goes all the way back to Spring 05 and I doubt anything either side does will change that save for disbanding.

In this game, the quest has always been the same. The players portraying the bad guys try to dominate the server, and the players portraying the good guys try to prevent their dominance and to defeat them in the process. That doesn't mean those players are good or bad, just the characters they portray, which keeps the game fun. But, when the dust settles, would you rather have the alliances that have oppressed the rest of the game for years surviving? or those who have fought against them?

Centauri Prime wrote: But, when the dust settles, would you rather have the alliances that have oppressed the rest of the game for years surviving? or those who have fought against them?

thats why i want to see tle gone ( they are the bad guys)

Centauri Prime wrote:

papa~smurf wrote:fuall and task force aside, i see hope for this game. I see small war like alliances popping up like flowers, all having the take no prisoner attitude. What this great war has done, is to have bored a lot of players into thinking out side the box of what was, into what can be.

The only difference between small alliances who war with everyone they so choose and large alliances who war with everyone they so choose is that the smaller alliances don't have as much to kill in return. At least with the big war, everyone had large stats to kill and there are still people who rebuild and allow for more fun to be had. If we get to the point where everyone switches gameplay to low defense, decent strike and masses whoever they can at all times, stats will become nonexistant in this game.

and the face of the game really changes, becomes some thing different. A self correcting reset of the stats quota. And the power in the game, changes along with it. face it, the style of play that developed was to have massive armies, massive stats, now if u are honest, that has only lead to these long drawn out farm fest, where the fun truly fades with the defense.

REK wrote:interesting read.... abit off point.... if you go down to the simple roots

Aesir aka Svarun and extremer labled traitors to Omega ( old grudge still to this day regardless of what they say)

TA/The order ( the original alliances ) vs The order of Chaos = ETL /REK and many others still imbedded in both Omega and DDE old grudges hence why we never let you forget what happenned in the past.. trust we know of what we have done and why we have done them yes after time our arrogance has grown but our friendship has expanded from game to real life many have come and one but we still are friends and we will always back each other so untill the elder Omegans and DDE members quit the game there will always be an Allegiance !

Lol There i can only agree m8 DDE grudge and hatred for EPA has been felt even after EPA died ohh and thats not only for the few ex EPA in YDE but in general.

Same goes other places i can see many places where old grudges and hatred is the reason behind alot of things but thats how things are.

unfortnatly nothing good will come out from this war
i like your story norbe dunno if it is true
but
fuall and tle will be forever
and their power is stronger every day pass and outsiders like i see are only farms and nobody is coming to do a challenge to this two powerfull forces
they choice to be purely tools for them
see here tauri and the order

and DDE


But I respectfully disagree. This is good as far as 3rd parties are concerned. Very good.

papa~smurf wrote:
and the face of the game really changes, becomes some thing different. A self correcting reset of the stats quota. And the power in the game, changes along with it. face it, the style of play that developed was to have massive armies, massive stats, now if u are honest, that has only lead to these long drawn out farm fest, where the fun truly fades with the defense.

Massive stats lead to at least a little bit of fun though during wars. Face it, even your conflicts at FS when fighting a decent opponent are long and drawn out. The only difference is you give your opponent little to mass from the beginning (much props to willie for always rebuilding). So really, by having alliances more like yourselves in this game, while more conducive to a war setting, further reduces the exciting element of warfare. There is no challenge in massing a 100 bill defense, but when big alliances build big defenses upwards of 9 or 10 trill, that takes planning and use of resources to take down.

And actually this war has been a great equalizer, many players on each side have lost hundreds of millions of men. While some have grown alot during this war, so have those outside this war. So, when this is finally over (when pigs fly btw), everyone will be at a much more even footing in the game. Plus since planets are now takable unless you can get unlimited merlins, it is that much harder for the big players who lost a ton this war to catch up unless they become uber active and raid and farm.

Also, keep up the funnies delta members. Your comments are always hilarious