Various Ascended fixes

[TheRook]

well as I posted a rant in a thread in the main suggestions section i figured I'll echo said rant here...

If you want to improve ascended

1) remove repulsion - it swings the attackers "advantage" of initiating the attack to that of the defender because someone attacked them... pit two even ascended being stat accounts with the attacker having the larger ascended life force (giving them more attacking power) the defender will repulse X amount back taking the attacks LF advantage away and usually give the defender the upper hand... inorder to successfully get 1/3rd "max damage" you need 3x's if not more their LF max in your LF max to get the 1/3rd generally...

2) Increase the max damage - 1/3rd is not enough... make it closer to a max of 50% for those that have been on the ascended planes for at least 90 days (3 months) or base it on the number of ascensions those with 3 ascensions or higher should be strong enough to protect themselves

3) Balance all of the attacks... you want to kill someone on ascension? Destroy Military, do you use the others? not really... oh Hunt Assasins... thats it... ascended account destroyed... whats the point of the other attacks they just dont offer the same benefits... beef them up... Sabotage in itself is utterly pointless... (I was bored and playing around with someones account and sabbed from his 90million weapons 2-3 million per go... pointless... after 10-15 hits it was down to less than 1 million... and not much longer after that I couldn't sab anymore... its effectiveness needs increasing (as do other attacks)

4) Remove the cap - its made its point... now every flitters around the 2-4bill planet mark... during this war I've massed myself down to less than 500mill planets... I can do this until the cows come home as I get back up in to 2 bill in less than 2 weeks... let the cap go and let people grow... the more they have = the more they train the more they can lose... capping them just means they dont need to grow above a certain size... it also makes it more difficult for players to get out of the range of "sniper/pirate" accounts through the size/attack rule.

5) remove the % modifiers... or just apply them to accounts below 90 days on the ascended server or below 3 ascensions... dont make them rank based as its obviously easily abused...

90 days - Every 3 days on the server reduces modifier by 1% so you start with 30% less damage when being hit (nothing when attacking/sabbing etc)

Ascension based - Prior = 30% modifier when defending hits (none when attacking)
prophet - 20%
um the 3rd one (M something? been a long time) - 10%
Incarnate and beyond - 0 %

That puts the modifiers in favour of the theoretically "newer" player to the ascended realms

6) Command Star - Laughable... give it techs like the MS in main... but obviously costing LF and making it more costly depending on ascended level and only upgradable to certain points depending on ascended level

Prior - CS upgrades 1-100
Prophet - 110-200
and so on up to LG/LG+1

This would then unlock it all the way to 1,000 max upgrades or power levels this costing LF would also give people something else to consider when spending their LF... but would limit smaller players wasting LF on this by limiting their spending...

feel free to discuss...

TheRook

[Iƒrit]

[spoiler]

just remove the repulsion skill...

It makes your attack useless and their defensive attack more powerful negating the point of attacking someone about the same power level as you but with weaker ascended life force stats...

If you want to improve ascended assaults

1) remove repulsion - it swings the attackers "advantage" of initiating the attack to that of the defender because someone attacked them... pit two even ascended being stat accounts with the attacker having the larger ascended life force (giving them more attacking power) the defender will repulse X amount back taking the attacks LF advantage away and usually give the defender the upper hand... inorder to successfully get 1/3rd "max damage" you need 3x's if not more their LF max in your LF max to get the 1/3rd generally...

2) Increase the max damage - 1/3rd is not enough... make it closer to a max of 50% for those that have been on the ascended planes for at least 90 days (3 months) or base it on the number of ascensions those with 3 ascensions or higher should be strong enough to protect themselves

3) Balance all of the attacks... you want to kill someone on ascension? Destroy Military, do you use the others? not really... oh Hunt Assasins... thats it... ascended account destroyed... whats the point of the other attacks they just dont offer the same benefits... beef them up... Sabotage in itself is utterly pointless... (I was bored and playing around with someones account and sabbed from his 90million weapons 2-3 million per go... pointless... after 10-15 hits it was down to less than 1 million... and not much longer after that I couldn't sab anymore... its effectiveness needs increasing (as do other attacks)

4) Remove the cap - its made its point... now every flitters around the 2-4bill planet mark... during this war I've massed myself down to less than 500mill planets... I can do this until the cows come home as I get back up in to 2 bill in less than 2 weeks... let the cap go and let people grow... the more they have = the more they train the more they can lose... capping them just means they dont need to grow above a certain size... it also makes it more difficult for players to get out of the range of "sniper/pirate" accounts through the size/attack rule.

5) remove the % modifiers... or just apply them to accounts below 90 days on the ascended server or below 3 ascensions... dont make them rank based as its obviously easily abused...

90 days - Every 3 days on the server reduces modifier by 1% so you start with 30% less damage when being hit (nothing when attacking/sabbing etc)

Ascension based - Prior = 30% modifier when defending hits (none when attacking)
prophet - 20%
um the 3rd one (M something? been a long time) - 10%
Incarnate and beyond - 0 %

That puts the modifiers in favour of the theoretically "newer" player to the ascended realms

6) Command Star - Laughable... give it techs like the MS in main... but obviously costing LF and making it more costly depending on ascended level and only upgradable to certain points depending on ascended level

Prior - CS upgrades 1-100
Prophet - 110-200
and so on up to LG/LG+1

This would then unlock it all the way to 1,000 max upgrades or power levels this costing LF would also give people something else to consider when spending their LF... but would limit smaller players wasting LF on this by limiting their spending...


Anyhow... this whole thread should be in the ascended section but I thought I'd add here as its just as likely to get looked at here as it would in the ascended section....

TheRook

[/spoiler]
1.) I disagree, I think its fine, just decrease time between attacks, or go with Lores suggestion.
2.) Increasing your ToC is easy enough, no point, again just decrease time between attacks or use lores suggestion.
3.) Agree with most of it, sabbed specifically is utter useless, would like to see my assassin battles incorperated
4.) Removing the cap is a BIG NO!!!!!!! getting a high planet production is easy, want to make more planets above the cap work harder, as it should be, dont make it easier, its already to easy.
5.) Rank modifier is a Joke its completely the reason that larger accounts sit at low ranks. As for ascension level linking to that NO, to exploitable.
If you see my assassin battle suggestion you may see some potential in affecting a huge amount of accounts
6.) Agree CS is a joke, remove it or increase it power by X100 or more.

[Lore]

1. I'm sorry but I disagree here. This is the only time the advantage is offered to the defender. Since the Attacker can refill immediately I think Repulsion should stay. Tweak it yes.

2. Many ways to acheive what your after, is increasing from 1/3 to 1/2 the answer? IDK but something sure needs to be done.

3. Definitely agree about balancing the att, but personally I'd rather see assasination weaked over everything else strengthened. There is no way to make sabb viable. Incomes are so high now, even if you could remove ALL their weapons, 1 turn of income could buy them back.

4. Undecided. In many ways I think the cap is a good things, in many its bad. Make wars worthwhile and meaningful, and stop the 100% protection of accounts and the cap will no longer be a problem. Accelerated growth to me is the main problem in ascended. It all depends on the way ascended swings next as to if the cap needs adjusted.

5. Agree, was stupid from the conception, way to exploitable, and has been shown over and over as folly but left?

I disagree completely with your take on % per ascention. Gives a 1 time ascended being to much of an advantage. Since ascentions are pointless and fruitless, someone who doesnt even play main can ascend 1 time and reak havok on ascended. JMO

6. Laughable is an understatement

These ideas actually promote ascending again, so I agree with something of this nature.

[TheRook]

@ Lore

point 5 the rank modifier is only on defence... this gives them time to learn the server... it wouldnt benefit any attacking etc...

Also I think best would be a combination of the two... combining ascension levels and the 90 day system...


@Ifrit/Lore

point 1 - in many other threads I've like each of you have offered so many different suggestions to sort out ascended assaults I practically lived in this section (mod)... I'm now just offering individual changes see if they get done as all of the balanced huge suggestions haven't had a tiny bit of a comment...

TheRook

[Nostradamus]

1. No .... even if the repulsed damage isn't capped if you have full reserves you won't be descended and replacing what you lose is a joke.

2. The problem with descension right now is that it's very hard to do it and the "damage" in main is minimal. I think that we will start to see people who had enough of snipers descending themselves (with a little "help") so they could get full income without sniper attacks.

So the balance must be restored ..... either make descension easier (reducing time between attacks, go from 1/3 to 1/2 or even more ..... plenty of suggestions already on this) or make the effects on main more severe (also plenty of suggestions on this).

3. Yes attacks must be modified a bit. Sabbing could be much more effective if you remove or increase the limits ..... for exemple if you have enough power you won't stop at the insignificant 3-5% that is now but you do full damage .... potentially destroying ALL the weapons he has.

Many people have stopped retaliating against snipers because they would lose alot of turns .... as snipers have minimal covert when not farming they could make their defense much much weaker with a few sabbs .... then they can hunt assassins at will and after that assassinate ..... and all this with let's say 150-200 turns.

4. The cap is good, but it has lived it's time in his present condition. There are almost 1,000 people OVER 4 bil planets and over 2,500 over 2 bil planets. That's 1,000 people who get less then 40% of their CER.

I think the best solution would be (as PSICOLIX proposed a long time ago) to keep a % of the CER "safe" .... so then your total CER would be x%*CER + (100-x)%*modifier*CER. Having 20 to 30% safe CER would allow people to grow at a pace related to their real CER.

5. Modifiers are good, but in the current form are abusable. If they would be linked to somehting else .... for exemple the % of attack A has on B it couldn't be cheated. So snipers would have 60% on their targets and the targets 130% against them ..... that would make many people happy.

@Ifrit

Don't trow idea for nothing .... it costs 25 times more to get to 900 in personal attacks + max life then to get all defense + max life to 700 .... attacker would have 650 mil TOS ..... but he would need 9 or 10 attacks to descend .... where the hell is the logic in that ?????

[Iƒrit]

@Ifrit

Don't trow idea for nothing .... it costs 25 times more to get to 900 in personal attacks + max life then to get all defense + max life to 700 .... attacker would have 650 mil TOS ..... but he would need 9 or 10 attacks to descend .... where the hell is the logic in that ?????

you got a point, at the current moment its a bit of a problem. But if the attack time was decreased, it wouldnt be so much an issue at least from what I think, I could be wrong though. But again its not hard to get your ToC high, nothing should be made easy, mostly thats the problem with most of the ascended server its far to easy. Now Im not saying make the decension easy, im saying make it possible cause at the moment account of equal abilities cant decend each other unless the other is away for whole day(s), and Im not sure if I know anyone who is willing to risk the ATs or the time to try. If the time between attacks was to stay, then I would say most definatly decrease cost to increase attack and defense personals (if your gonna do one, dont exculde the other), or increase damage that is possible. I guess for me it would matter the angle admin takes on decending.

[sneferuthegreat]

MORE EXPENSIVE WEAPONS
I think this would help the sniper thing out a ton...
also make people lose more when selling weapons.. like he did in main

[martin the great]

how about get nothing back from selling weapons

[TheRook]

how about get nothing back from selling weapons

I could train the 3 billion planets I have untrained and take myself off critical and almost buy 100million weapons in one turn...

Costs would have to rise based on the size of your empire... otherwise a blanket price increase would screw over newly ascended accounts where income is bugger all...

TheRook

[GeneralChaos]

The problem isnt the techs used its the 1/3 part

because it is actually 33.3% which requires a 4th hit

Admin needs to make it say 35% so on the 3rd hit at max damage target it gone, you have to leave it 3 hours between hits, as not everyone has the ability to sit online all day playing, some of us have, work/ school/ families and other duties to for fill IRL before a game, why should we be penalized.

[Nostradamus]

35% wouldn't be enough .... take into account that there is some life force gained trough flow and channeling in the hours between the hits.

40% will probably do it in most cases .... even if there are plenty of accounts and I'm not talking about the very best, on which at the moment is impossible to do even 33% damage.

[Lithium]

why not to remove those 3 hrs u have to wait between two ascended attacks

it let u hit every turn till u can desc the target.

this way admins have jsut to remove a code and not to set many others that can heavy the server.

I think the best to do is to increase the ability to descend accounts.


main players have built some lvl just to avoid beeing desc so they can maintain their ascended bonuses. this way they just log once/2day or less which kills the activity of the asc server.


give to the ascended players the possibility to hurt the big accounts in main if they dont start to play again theis server.

[Nostradamus]

You clearly don't think of all the implications for what are you suggesting.

The snipers would increase their TOC to insane levels and they will be in a position to demand a tribute for every other account in order to stay undescended .... even if you sleep 4 hours a night in 8 hits you will surely be descended.

[TheRook]

35% wouldn't be enough .... take into account that there is some life force gained trough flow and channeling in the hours between the hits.

40% will probably do it in most cases .... even if there are plenty of accounts and I'm not talking about the very best, on which at the moment is impossible to do even 33% damage.

I by no means have the best ascended being on my ascended account but even at 40% people will find it hard pushed to descend me... In 2 hours I recover all of my LF (70 odd million) the other 2 turns give me reserves... if you increased it to 40% you would still be smacked back in the face by my repulsion turning 30% of your attack back onto you... (again thats low in my book) but repulsion just gives too much of an advantage to the defender...

TheRook

[Nostradamus]

Exactly my point .... in order for someone to do you 40% damage he would have to have over 1 tril TOC .... which as anyone can guess is very very expensive.