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Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:00 am
by Mystake
Subject: Complaint with sgwsZeratul wrote:we could get on yesterday...
since many could get on, game was not properly down... yes, some couldnt log on, but many could, and thus, it is not enough of a reason for such complaint...
and as goodie said, there is no rule that says Forum has to give ppt whenever game is broken... the times he does that, it is only to be nice...
it is obvious that there is far too little reason for such complaint, therefore, we'll close this topic...
it is of my belief that zeratul is using personal judgment in this event to determine that a thread relating to stargatewars in the SGW General forum is deserving of a lock. I believe the original post by the author was more than adequate to be in that forum due to its relation to the game and location. Zeratul, as a moderator and NOT a game administrator claims that the author has little reason to complain. Zeratul is not in a position to make sure an assertion and therefore the thread was unnecessarily locked.
At the bottom of this post i'll quote myself what I said in response (in a new thread). I feel zeratul overstepped his boundaries due to using opinion over judgment. Because the situation is not relevant to the moderator does not make it irrelevant to others. Clearly SGW was inaccessible to a large amount of people. Just because you could get on does not void other player's issues.
It is clear that there was an issue for players to get on yesterday and therefore they should be allowed to make a thread and complain!
Mystake wrote:sorry it got locked, I read that. However it was locked on a moderator's personal feelings that there is "little" reason to complain.
The only people who are telling others to get over it are those who did not lose much.
Jason specifically said he'd PPT the game if the server went down for more than 3 hours. I can't quote it, I just know it. I guarantee he wasn't the one who put the game back online (granted it was probably a datacentre thing and Jason wasn't aware that people couldn't get on).
So to those saying get over it... why don't you look at your logs and see how much you lost in comparison to those who lost more. To Zeratul who uses his own MODERATOR's judgement to decide that a game event is insignificant, I will be depositing a formal complaint over that because this is SGW General and that thread discusses an event directly related to the game, something that I do not believe that you should use personal judgment to decide it is insignificant even though others were affected more severely than you were.
As a moderator I think you should keep the topic from derailing rather than claim dictatorship over someone else's opinion.
That's all.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:17 pm
by Mystake
add deni to this...
apparently a thread discussing the downtime gets locked, and then my response to that thread (with commentary about it being locked) gets locked as well... then I get slapped with a "check the TOS of the game" and "if you want to suggest a serverwide ppt do it elsewhere" and then a "you already posted in the mod feedback"
well, i wasn't suggesting we get serverwide PPT, i wasn't asking for the TOS of the game and I sure as hell don't think the Mod feedbakc forum and SGW general are the same.
One thread was to be discussing the downtime and how ppl are whinning about it, some say get over it others say ppt was deserved, and then one is complaining about a moderator locking a thread.
Sorry deni, nothing against you, just the fact that you need a new Logic prescription along with a stronger pair of reading glasses.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:27 pm
by deni
Mystake wrote:sorry it got locked, I read that. However it was locked on a moderator's personal feelings that there is "little" reason to complain.
The only people who are telling others to get over it are those who did not lose much.
Jason specifically said he'd PPT the game if the server went down for more than 3 hours. I can't quote it, I just know it. I guarantee he wasn't the one who put the game back online (granted it was probably a datacentre thing and Jason wasn't aware that people couldn't get on).
So to those saying get over it... why don't you look at your logs and see how much you lost in comparison to those who lost more. To Zeratul who uses his own MODERATOR's judgement to decide that a game event is insignificant, I will be depositing a formal complaint over that because this is SGW General and that thread discusses an event directly related to the game, something that I do not believe that you should use personal judgment to decide it is insignificant even though others were affected more severely than you were.
As a moderator I think you should keep the topic from derailing rather than claim dictatorship over someone else's opinion.
That's all.
That is the opening post of the thread in question. It was made only with the purpose of questioning Zeratul's decision and directed in him. As a complaint was already posted here, the thread was redundant and thus locked.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:48 pm
by Clarkey
If this is a complaint about Zeratul then who are you complaining to? Because you're sure as hell not complaining to the Ombudsman.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:49 pm
by DaDigi
This thread will remain open until I have a chance to speak with Jason on Wednesday and I will get the final and closing words from him when it comes to server downtime and PPT. There are often hiccups with the internet. Stuff happens. Power goes out, things overheat, cords break. It's life. You can prepare for the worst, but eventually something's going to happen. If you're complaining that the game was down for three hours and you're demanding PPT in compensation for your "lost time" then good luck. PPT is a benefit which is given by Jason as a "sorry for the huge downtime this is my apology" thing for when there's a massive problem and NOBODY can login for an EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. This is what I've gathered from communications with him when the game has gone down and my prior experience with the issue. Once again, I will confirm downtime PPT "requirements", but it's up to his discretion as to when it is given. I urge anybody who feels that this matter is important to attend the "Meet The Admin Chat" on Wednesday.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:03 am
by Zeratul
God Clarkey wrote:If this is a complaint about Zeratul then who are you complaining to? Because you're sure as hell not complaining to the Ombudsman.
yes, that is rather odd... who is the complaint to?
if you were to have PM'd us with a good reason for it being opened again, we would no doubt have been willing to discuss it...
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:52 am
by Nimras
Zeratul wrote:God Clarkey wrote:If this is a complaint about Zeratul then who are you complaining to? Because you're sure as hell not complaining to the Ombudsman.
yes, that is rather odd... who is the complaint to?
if you were to have PM'd us with a good reason for it being opened again, we would no doubt have been willing to discuss it...
Zeratul the complaint isn't really about you its about the fact the topic was closed as it did have a point some users found it strange and faulty that they couldnt log on for over 5 hours heck i couldnt for 6 hours because of the error in coding/database and others could which means they had a farm fest my account was included in that.
Allowing them to talk and complaine even wonder why not have a PPT is what Mystake wanted and your name is just up because you closed it but in reality its just the fact it was closed that annoyes him. Thats how i read his complaint so its more a question to the team why you closed it.
Deni's complaint from him is more a ombudsman thing as he feels she over modded. Thats how i understood that.
Remember all writen above is how i read and understood Mystake's post so if i am wrong Mystake please correct me will ya.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:37 am
by Wolf359
The real problem is that the majority of people in this game exect things to be easy and laid on a plate for them - thus every time something goes wrong they want something in return.....
Just like when you lose your wallet, containing £200, your bank gives you an increased interest rate on the money in your savings, to make up for it......
...... oh wait, that doesn't happen, does it!
The real complaint should be about how easy the game is, and how when anything goes wrong people expect to be bailed out, and then moan when they're not.
And, as deni quite rightly pointed out elsewhere - read the
Terms of Service you all agreed to when you joined the game.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:15 am
by Wolf359
After discussion with another mod, it has been decided to re-open this thread. By the strict letter of the forum rules, it is NOT a formal complaint as it has been made in the feedback section and not to the ombudsman directly (as has already been pointed out). However, it can also be construed as feedback towards a mod - and that is the ONLY reason it remains open - to discuss the feedback.
Users are requested to title their feedback threads accordingly in the future, as failure to do so may result in them being locked, deleted or moved.
Wolf359 & weilandsmith
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:00 am
by Mystake
Nimmy's got it!
As for Digi, sup!?
I wasn't asking for a PPT. I was on PPT during the downtime so it did not affect me at all.
To those saying it belongs in ombuds corner... you're more than welcome to move it there...
edit: *slaps forehead*
yeah it DOES belong in the ombuds. I just re-read how I construed it all and *slaps self*
My bad mods, you got me on this one!
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:02 pm
by Nimras
Mystake wrote:Nimmy's got it!
As for Digi, sup!?
I wasn't asking for a PPT. I was on PPT during the downtime so it did not affect me at all.
To those saying it belongs in ombuds corner... you're more than welcome to move it there...
edit: *slaps forehead*
yeah it DOES belong in the ombuds. I just re-read how I construed it all and *slaps self*
My bad mods, you got me on this one!
Hehe actually it werent meant for it as you said your self beside the Deni part.
So if you had refrased it as what you wanted to say it do belong here but with current wording it dont lol so give and take what view you want. Reminds me on some issues in the Mod section lol ohh well at least it good to see i arent the only one they have problems understanding
.
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:09 pm
by TheWay
this is a little silly who cares where it belongs I mean we have to have a fracking forum degree to figure where stuff goes. I admit I dont post on the forums as regularly as some but I do enough and the fact of the matter I still don't know where the corrct place for stuff is sometimes and the mods always do a decnt job of moving the post and nicely letting me know why.
In all I would like an answer on the rules and authorities in regard to this issue of modding. Please view my post to get a full understanding of what I am trying to say. Thank you
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:18 pm
by Mystake
Get your own thread!
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:02 pm
by Wolf359
TheWay wrote:this is a little silly who cares where it belongs I mean we have to have a fracking forum degree to figure where stuff goes. I admit I dont post on the forums as regularly as some but I do enough and the fact of the matter I still don't know where the corrct place for stuff is sometimes and the mods always do a decnt job of moving the post and nicely letting me know why.
In all I would like an answer on the rules and authorities in regard to this issue of modding. Please view my post to get a full understanding of what I am trying to say. Thank you
No degree required - just read the rules, especially section 8.
Mystake wrote:Nimmy's got it!
As for Digi, sup!?
I wasn't asking for a PPT. I was on PPT during the downtime so it did not affect me at all.
To those saying it belongs in ombuds corner... you're more than welcome to move it there...
edit: *slaps forehead*
yeah it DOES belong in the ombuds. I just re-read how I construed it all and *slaps self*
My bad mods, you got me on this one!
Mystake wrote:Get your own thread!
Re: Complaint against Zeratul
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:17 pm
by DaDigi
viewtopic.php?p=1558231#p1558231Forum wrote:Hello,
Recently we had an issue preventing some people from logging into the game. (as referenced below).
Previosly, I have had a 'rule of thumb' that if the game is out for 3+ hours, I provide some server wide PPT.
In this case, as far as I can tell, the issue lasted from 3 to 4 hours in length, for most people (not all).
Additionally, in order to fix the issue promptly, I had to work off not-my-normal computer...a lot of the tools/scripts I usually use were not available to me.
So - I made a judgement call. My choices, as I saw them, were:
1) try to PPT, while taking into account that some people WERE active, and attacking, etc during the 'inaccessible to most' time...
Also taking into account that to PPT would not be 'instant' and some people would get on before I could manually update things.
Also taking into account that doing mass server updates 'on the fly' without a tested script, run the chance of breaking things that were not broken before...
2) call it close enough to the 3hour time, especially since not everybody was affected, or at least not for the full time period, and deal with any exceptions on a case by case basis via email.
All things weighed, I wish there were never an issue
But - seeing as there was, I opted for #2 as the safest, and likely fairest, resolution.
I do apologize for anyone who felt they got the 'short end' of the stick, and for the inconvienience overall. In this case, though, I did the best I could to get things fixed and back in play, fairly to everyone, with the lowest risk of making anything worse.
Thanks for reading, and maybe understanding.
admin jason.