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I challenge any creationist or proponent of intelligent design to a debate of about evolution.

Bring it on. I am tired of you trying to politicize scientific arguments, drawing false conclusions based upon misunderstanding or willfully ignorant understanding of scientific theory, (and most of all) your mind numbing attempts of trying to distort scientific definitions.

IF you wish to accept the challenge then post here and we will settle this once and for all.

You could argue that intelligent design and evolution are the same thing. Is it so unthinkable that intelligent design (God - whatever you want to call it) created an 'intelligent design' that was/is capable of developing itself based on it's surroundings?

The problem presented with talking about God as a creator is that yes, it lacks any distinct definition of what God is before God put together the peices of the universe, so in comes the question of wether or not God is an intelligent force that is capable of design, OR, a simple (yet delightfully complex) mass of energy, and infact we're the product of random inevitability? The difficulty of course, particularly for those who worship God/s, is the unreasonable lack of efforts to consider the latter notion and question it.

Alas, I think I may have diverted the topic slightly.

Diamond Dust wrote:You could argue that intelligent design and evolution are the same thing. Is it so unthinkable that intelligent design (God - whatever you want to call it) created an 'intelligent design' that was/is capable of developing itself based on it's surroundings?

The problem presented with talking about God as a creator is that yes, it lacks any distinct definition of what God is before God put together the peices of the universe, so in comes the question of wether or not God is an intelligent force that is capable of design, OR, a simple (yet delightfully complex) mass of energy, and infact we're the product of random inevitability? The difficulty of course, particularly for those who worship God/s, is the unreasonable lack of efforts to consider the latter notion and question it.

Alas, I think I may have diverted the topic slightly.

Yes you did, intelligent design believes that it is impossible that all life originated from just a few cells.

Im not going to really bother but,


Evolution assumes creation/design.

Simply put.

Mister Sandman wrote:Im not going to really bother but,


Evolution assumes creation/design.

Simply put.

haha funny spam, did a kid that just came out of sunday school just tell you that?

Thriller wrote:

Diamond Dust wrote:You could argue that intelligent design and evolution are the same thing. Is it so unthinkable that intelligent design (God - whatever you want to call it) created an 'intelligent design' that was/is capable of developing itself based on it's surroundings?

The problem presented with talking about God as a creator is that yes, it lacks any distinct definition of what God is before God put together the peices of the universe, so in comes the question of wether or not God is an intelligent force that is capable of design, OR, a simple (yet delightfully complex) mass of energy, and infact we're the product of random inevitability? The difficulty of course, particularly for those who worship God/s, is the unreasonable lack of efforts to consider the latter notion and question it.

Alas, I think I may have diverted the topic slightly.

Yes you did, intelligent design believes that it is impossible that all life originated from just a few cells.

No that is not true and shows the huge amount of propaganda out there. Actually Cretaionism would say that but the ID movement has old earth theorist and young earth theorist. The basic principle behind ID is that evolution is a clearly flawed scientific view and a new paradigm must be sought. The idea od ID is that the complexity of life points to an intelligent creator but it doesnt go beyond that. ID for the first time since the sensationilist has allowed for the idea of the noumenal realm beliveing that true science doesnt rule anything out but rather asks questions then endeavors to study their validty. For a long time philosophy and the meta sciences have been relagated to obscurity in scientific circles but we are finaly bridging that gap and making some great explorations into the possiblity of the noumenal realm explaining many of the unexplainable. It had been a long held view in science for most human history that there was more out there then just man and that science ultimatly pointed to this existance.

the argiment it would seem is realy about how science should work and how one can know anything.

Don't move my thread, i want to have a formal moderated debate with The Way about why ID is retarded and evolution is the very much more logical theorem.

If I were to enter this debate with you, I would take the nihilistic point of view on this issue.

Also, ID is a pretty broad topic, since it can include tradition Christian elements, be completely agnostic in that one may acknowledge the possibility that whatever the process that got us where we are, it may have been initiated supernaturally, et cetera.

In other words, if you want a proper debate (which isn't designed to arrive at the truth anyway), you may want to specify what form of ID you wish to debate.

That sound like alot of fun could we do it here as i dont always have time and some weeks I have none. If I can make my points here when i ahve time that would be fine but I just am very busy rightnow. The only reason why I have came now is I was asked by a friend to please come make some points so I did out of courtesy.

I appreciate the challenge though and on a side not I finished studying Thermodynamics and from what I can tell it doesnt ahve a whole to do with these issues other then it certaintly seems to support that there was a begining for the universe and when i say that i dont mean the big bang I mean there was a begining to energy

@Agapooka, lol so you will be argueing taht everything we say on either side doesnt matter and no one can no the truth so there is no point lol

I will argue as a Christian the theory that creation points to an intellgent designer and at the same time of course poke some holes in the points that my opponant makes

I look forward to this
we will have to work out a date that both parties can agree to.

Thriller wrote:I look forward to this
we will have to work out a date that both parties can agree to.

Indeed. Then you can have your thread in the other section.


~Semper