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I've noticed lately some positions regarding morality.

People who are against morality and/or follow Nietzsche path, are most likely atheist people, as, afterall, didn't he state that "god was dead"? So, we have atheists on one side, and fanatics/integrists on the other.

Morality in itself is not bad. However, if you have excessive morality (extremism in religions), it becomes wrong, as your life is totally blocked between walls, and it doesn't do any better to humanity/others to be excessive there. You can even hurt people by being excessive there. It's even dangerous, and risk others' life.

Now let's talk about what is *true* immorality/absence of morality.

However, lack/absence of morality or refuting it isn't any better. Human can't be considered as a "good" creature. It has bestial instincts, coming from its long ancesters, from millions of years ago, chimpances, before they evolve into humans. Morality, if well used and not turned on excessively, can solve and limitate "inhuman" part of the human. If we reject morality, the worse in human will come back. And if we consider already the world as bad and full of badness, then why would we want to get rid of morality?
There's no reason to get rid of it, change some parts of it, to follow evolution of society, but denying it or applying it excessively, is a step back to past, to a less-good past. Turning world worse than it could even be, in worst cases. Get rid of civilized parts of human, and he'll become an animal.

With excessive morality, you aren't allowed to do anything. It's trapping of life.
With no morality at all, you can do *everything* that fits you and helps you, this being killing, raping, insulting, betraying, cheating on wife/husband, stealing, genocide'ing and so on...because, afterall, if it helps you...why wouldn't you do it? Since morality isn't your concern, nothing stops you. You can do whatever you want to follow your way in this "path". But there, it's going wrong. Everyone would do it, and everyone would die in a matter of a century.
If there wasn't morality, raping, stealing and killing wouldn't be against law at all, as afterall, that would be jungle law instead, where strongest survive.

Without morality, there's nothing wrong in mocking a disabled person on the street, and spitting infront of him/her with fixing his/her eyes full of disdain and hate on your eyes. Is it forbidden by law? Not likely. Is it immoral? Yep. So yes, even things not breaking laws, and yet being unacceptable, can be done with absence of morality.

Another example: without any morality, you can always use friends and family who trust you, to achieve your goals, then when achieved and them unneeded anymore, throw them out like banana skin and tell them you have never been their friends, but them your toys. That's what true immorality is. Being untrustful as acting *only* for your own good, don't giving a damn about anything else.

Would we like to live in a world with only bad parts of our current world, but multiplied, and total absence of nice/good/pleasant. What, then, would be the point in living in a world without morality?

That was just a simulation of what would be, if morality disappeared. Is it good? I don't think so. Is it aweful, yes I do think so.

Just some points for skepticists of morality, to realize that morality is not bad, it's just how it's used, that could be! Without morality...earth's apocalypse is coming!

If you don't feel concerned personally by the above post's content, and/or don't recognize yourself there, it means, that, fortunately, neither you abuse morality, nor you lack it totally.

/643 words. Go me!

I didn't make this topic to flame or antagonize people, just to throw facts on the table to show that words (morality, immorality), aren't only words!

this idea of universal morality you seem to be adhering to is complete rubbish. its an idea spread throughout the centuries that there are right and wrong ways to behave, rather than the truth; there is no right and wrong, there is no good and evil, the black and white world you speak of is an imagination beyond any semblance of real life.

to assume that if we didnt follow the ideas set out for us by whatever society we have to live in we would descend into some distopian nightmare is extremist at best. in my opinion it would be a massive improvement. at least we would stop pretending to be civilised beings, and just start living.

R'zul wrote:this idea of universal morality you seem to be adhering to is complete rubbish. its an idea spread throughout the centuries that there are right and wrong ways to behave, rather than the truth; there is no right and wrong, there is no good and evil, the black and white world you speak of is an imagination beyond any semblance of real life.

to assume that if we didnt follow the ideas set out for us by whatever society we have to live in we would descend into some distopian nightmare is extremist at best. in my opinion it would be a massive improvement. at least we would stop pretending to be civilised beings, and just start living.

As I said, excessive morality is AS MUCH wrong as none. As, with excessive morality, you are trapped, and you force others in your trappement. (@ your statement about europe and some governements)

Without morality, what happens? Nothing is considered as wrong, soo, as long as it follows your needs and is best for you, you can do it. If it has to be murdering a whole family, as long as you need to do it and that it helps, you'll do it, as it helps you, and is good for you. Why wouldn't you do it?? Sadly, you aren't alone in this world. So, others will do the same for same reasons...and there the big improvement you'll see, will be that you'll can trust nobody at all in this world, nobody will respect you UNLESS its for personal gain and so on...morality pretended to be hypocrisy? There, you'll get hypocrisy, alot of it. "Oh I'm your friend, I like you, you have a big bank acc...erm you are nice I meant", everyone will be enemy of everyone as everyone will only think of its personal interest, but, without any morality.
"Invisible hand" won't work there...because not everyone's interest is to find work where he/she is best to earn the most...many will be temptated to steal, scam, extort..

You forgot one thing in your argument, human is bad in nature (he is self destructing and dangerous for other humans). If nothing is there to moderate him, then, he'll act like a predator, that's why my vision isn't extremist at all, since human is originally bad.
By predator I don't mean lion, I mean chimpance. They are only animals who frequently kill for pleasure, do wars inbetween their tribes and kill each others in same specie. Do we want to regress into what chimpances are? Absence of morality will lead to their way of living.

If humans were different, morality wouldn't be needed...but humans are what they are, so it's needed.

R'zul wrote:this idea of universal morality you seem to be adhering to is complete rubbish. its an idea spread throughout the centuries that there are right and wrong ways to behave, rather than the truth; there is no right and wrong, there is no good and evil, the black and white world you speak of is an imagination beyond any semblance of real life.

examples/proof please?

R'zul wrote:to assume that if we didnt follow the ideas set out for us by whatever society we have to live in we would descend into some distopian nightmare is extremist at best. in my opinion it would be a massive improvement. at least we would stop pretending to be civilised beings, and just start living.

define "living"? uncivilized "living" is chaos, rules not being respected, without anyone to enforce them. take these forums for an example: how many people have been banned for breaking the rules and ruining topics? even the game- how many people have been banned for breaking the rules and ruining the game for other people? they are banned for doing the wrong thing. is the game administration wrong for banning these people? are the forums mods wrong for banning forum trolls?

also take note that by saying "this idea of universal morality you seem to be adhering to is complete rubbish", you're telling LA(and me) that we are wrong. can you do that if morality is rubbish? can you tell me it's wrong to say something is wrong?

countless people have been griping about double standards: the last two questions illustrate such double standard.