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or should it disbanded and returned to its rightful (for lack of a better word) owners?

i'm going to make this a poll in a few days, but first we seriously need to think about and have greater understanding of what it is we are voting on, read this again because all to quickly people vote on these boards without reading...

but first we seriously need to think about and have greater understanding what it is we are voting on.

there will be no anti-Jewish propaganda or hate posting going on here by ANYONE who wishes to discuss this topic like an adult and with an open mind!

lets take a look at a chart of Israels growing theft of land from the Palestinian people since the late 1940's first of all:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

now lets have a look at what true Jews think of this theft. this is a site where it shows pictures of orthodox Jews rallying all over the word:

http://www.nkusa.org/

[spoiler][/spoiler]

1, given that even the holly book, The Torah, explicitly states that a Jewish state of Israel is forbidden, should it even exist?

2, and having seen that the Palestinians are being ethnically cleansed, how is this any different to whats happened in the Balkans, Iraq, China/Tibet, and MANY other country's round the world? how can we justify the invasion of Iraq under the pretext of "Freeing" the Iraqi people and bringing down a dangerous dictator (a dictator who was placed in power, financed and kept there by the Americans i might add) when exactly the same thing is happening in Palestine??

3, when Palestinians go blowing themselves up, how can we condemn this act but by the same breath, find no condemnation for what the Israelis have done and continue to do?

4, allot people don't know this but, an American woman in her early 20's was run over with an Israeli (American built and supplied) bulldozer while trying to stop the destruction of a doctors home!
Rachel Corrie-the girl with the biggest dream and biggest heart.

this is a 9 minute video about Rachel and parts of this film are not easy to watch:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FyrQL-ZhMy4

5, how many of you know about this Irish woman who was shot by Israelis for simply protesting?

Mairead Maguire, irish Nobel Peace Laureate (1976).

3.5 min video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YUF05gKJJgw

theres so much MORE that i have learned about whats going on in Palestine and why its happening, suffice to say that its NOT what people think or what the media is spinning. don't listen to the medias lies about Palestine. given that Israel is supposed to uphold human rights why is there no outcry from the rest of the world?! because of media spin!

also, Palestine was NEVER a land without people for a people without land, unless the Canaanite people who inhabited that land originally (and whom the Palestinians are direct descendants of) are a fictitious people!

whats happening is nothing short of genocide in our modern age, so how is this different to what Hitler did? we went to war with Germany because of Hitler and similar events, how quickly we forget!

i got to say that the state of israel is causing alot of problems in the middle east and it is resulting in a lot of people getting killed (mostley innocents).

so if it didint exist and something oif a unififed country where both sides could live together i gues may bring some peace. at the same time while the state continues to exist as it is then there will continue to be viloence and more terrorist brewing in that region.

what many people don't know because they don't bother to learn is that, prior to the signing of the Balfour Treaty( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_De ... on_of_1917 ) and the creation of the state of Israel in 1946, Jews and Palestinians lived side by side and even looked after and raised each others children, that's historical fact. the problems started when the Zionist state of Israel was created.

we as a species need to learn that a crime against 1 individual is a crime and indictment against all of us

a little history
before Israel was originally set there were many more sutible places that they were offered but refused too use and instead demanded to have palistine.

had they taken tasmania (the large island at the bottom of Aus) as was ofered there would have been no problem to start with because unfortunatley australia had already killed the indigious population of tasmania off

while this has little to no bearing of who is right and wrong in the conflict very little does although hamas is a LEGAL political party that is in government and so the media should stop calling them a terrorist organisation unless all waring countrys are to be called so.

very good post mate, its good that information is spread by all of us instead of me becoming a mouth peace, so to speak

the problem with the Zionists acceptance of other lands is that those lands don't have what they are after.

generally speaking now, nobody is saying that the Jews cant share the land with the Palestinians, all that's being said is that Israel shouldn't exist and its leaders should be brought to justice for crimes against humanity and the land returned to the Palestinians.

israel is home of israelitis, they were forced out of their own home tousand years ago, hell ya they will battle hard for their homes. When you look into the past, don't look 100hunderd years, but look when the thing actualy started. Israelitis were forced to leave their homes, not that they are strong enough they are taking it back.

The biggest problem i see are muslims, they wan't somthing they take it, if they can't have it they blow it.

In slovenia muslims want to build mosque bigger then any church here in a cotholic contry! I say when we have a church in Meka that is bigger then any mosque, they can have their mosque here.

who forced the Israelis from their homes, when did this happen??

because if you research your history properly, you will find that the Hebrews were not slaves of Egypt and Egypt was in fact, ruled by the Hebrew Pharaohs for 100 years before they were driven out of Egypt were they settled in the land of Canaan (Canaan=Palestine).

do you also know why they blow themselves up? maybe because they don't have American built and supplied war planes, tanks and guns??

there are extremists and there are Muslims and you shouldn't confuse the 2, they are not the same as i have learned, because after 9/11, all Muslims were terrorists in my mind and i wanted to see all of them crushed under the tracks of a tank, i was wrong in my thinking because i didn't know any better, well now i do!

even if they are not all terorist, you have to admin they all do have a bit of suicidal mind

no i wont admit that, and by you saying that, it shows me you have no interest in either learning or debating!

did you even read all of my 1st post or just the parts you wanted to?

Just one question. Are you a muslim? If you aren't what are u then?

no i'm not Muslim and i'm not an Arab, i am an orthodox Greek Cypriot, but above and beyond my race and religion, i am a human being who believes in humanity and cares about what we do to each other for no good reason...


who are you and what do you believe??

I am Daniel, Catholic and I believe in god

getting back on topic from your first post you mentioned that the Torah prohibits a Jewish state i was wondering where abouts that is as i've never heard that argument before?

also why it would have made more sense to attack germany because of hittlers views and the genocide that was commited unfortunatlry the reasons were much more selfish and had hittler just exterminated the german jewish population and not invaded other parts of europe he probably would have been alowed to continue with little to no outside interference

iNFiNiTY wrote:I am Daniel, Catholic and I believe in god

cool, so were on the same page then?

meaning that its wrong to kill for ANY reason and that we are all gods children regardless of the tags we ware?

tags meaning:
Orthodox
Christian
Catholic
Muslim
Shiite
Sunni
Buddhist
Hindu

so on and so forth.

Deaths_Rider wrote:getting back on topic from your first post you mentioned that the Torah prohibits a Jewish state i was wondering where abouts that is as i've never heard that argument before?

also why it would have made more sense to attack germany because of hittlers views and the genocide that was commited unfortunatlry the reasons were much more selfish and had hittler just exterminated the german jewish population and not invaded other parts of europe he probably would have been alowed to continue with little to no outside interference

to the outside world, we didn't know about what was happening internally with the German Jews (btw, Hitler had Jewish blood in him), but the corporations like IBM computers and Coke Cola knew EXACTY what was happening, thats been proved by the contracts they signed with the Nazis.

IBM Corporation had the contract to supply and maintain the punch card machines which were used to keep track of the holocaust victims. IBM had the sole contract to print the punch cards and service the machines once a month on site, so somebody from IBM America had to go to Germany and do this.

i've seen many films which the orthodox Jews and Rabbi's themselves actually state the words that its 1 of the Torah's highest laws that no state of Israel shall exist.

you can also find that information from the Orthodox Jewish website to confirm it.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:cool, so were on the same page then?

meaning that its wrong to kill for ANY reason and that we are all gods children regardless of the tags we ware?

tags meaning:

Christian
Catholic

so on and so forth.

arend those two the same?