StarGateWars Forums

well it's hard to find somewhere to begin here,

when i first joined this forum it was a good place, the GC was very respectfull and the topics of discussion were relevant and the players talking here on a regular basis were friendly, side mostly didn't mather we were just here for the purpous of the game, to have fun.

while time past things changed, the forum became a mess and the server war topic was going completly out of controle, ppl were screaming biased all around and bit by bit the fun died, all that were here were lies and half truths.

then i got to see the ombudman position, something i tought that could help better the forum, a mediator between partys, a bridge builder between the forum administration and the forum users. a person that could see to it that everyone is treated as equals and is treated fairly. i saw it as a ray of light in a forum that was getting darker and darker, i ran for the position and came in second after manetheren who asked me to become his understudy. i accepted it to show that FUALL and TTF can work togheter for the greater good, i did it so i could help better the forum.

manetheren i have all the respect in the world for you, you were truely great to work with. we tought the same about nearly any case and we had the same vision for the forum. when we took the duty on ourself we only had good intentions. but recent forum developments have made the ombudsman position a shared, i can't believe in it myself anymore then why should the forum users ?

the truth is that about 2 months ago the ombudsman got it's position clarefied by admin jason, admin jason said that if the admins agree the ombudsman could handle cases on it's own and make it's own descisions. the moderators tought this gave the ombudsman to much power and that it udnermined the forum authorety so they talked to admin jason who rewrote his post.

currently the ombudsman cannot make his own descisions, he has to present a case to the admins and the admins vote on what should be done. in my understanding the ombudsman was a neutral person who shoudn't be controled by the ppl he somtimes needs to be investigated.

as a regular user i always tought the ombudsmen and the moderators respected eachother, now i think about how naive i was. most of them just concider the ombudsman a thorn in their eye, something that shoudn't be. and when even the new admin begins to question the need for the ombudsman position then what is the point of this all ?

but i have to be fair, not all mods and admins have simular vieuws on this so don't think they are all the same, they are all different ppl with their own visions about the forum. only judge those you know.

i have met many great moderators and saw the admins like most ppl don't and all i have to say about the 3 admins i got to work with:

robe: i was pleasently suprised by you, after getting to know you i found that you were absolutely not the biased powerhungry admin some ppl take you for. you were always there with good advice and you do everything you can for the forum
lore: i realy regret you not being able to get on msn, you were a pleasure to work with becausse your input allways hits the spot, you are a verry wise admin
buck: mate overal you were a great admin, just like lore you always turoughly said what your opinion about things were, it's a shame to see you go.


goodbye forum, i'll only be visiting you as the PI allegiance leader when i have to declare wars or end them. or as id 75836 trading with other id's. i might check in to see for upcomming sgw meetings but i'm sure my friends who do read this forum will alert me to them.


i will remain on duty until manetheren gets back from his holliday (8th of july)

farewell

Sad to see you leave Zeek especially because you did a deasent job in these times.

But then again like many others you have seen the corrupt mods, GM's and admins (not all btw before everyone hunts me) who does nothing but for ingame politics and own gains what a surprise unbiased modding are rare these days and will get even rarer.

But I am sorry to see you give up as i had hoped you could do it.

But it was greate having you around and i hope you regret this desition and come back because you leaving is a big loss to this forum m8 trust me a big loss.

Too bad that a few jumped up power mad mods had to cry to admin, about his own decision, god forbid you would undo a warn or a ban that was not warranted, so congrats to the jumped up power mad mods you did it again.

Eventually someone with power around here will see the problem, all the mods who complained about admin Jasons decision should be removed, as they are not part of the solution they are part of the problem, and now zeek has resigned from his place which was there to HELP normal players of the community.

*hunt nimras






to give him a beer*


i saw this coming weeks ago zeeky - the one 5 minute chat we have and i saw it, but then again i would like to say i know you well enough after OSL to be able to tell these things you got my MSN if ya ever wanna chat bud

Korruption

I'm lost as to why the mods even had a say in the matter

An ombudman by it's very nature is meant to be an impartial party that favours no side and is controlled by nobody. Their job is meant to be to try to resolve issues between ALL parties.

If the position is eventually removed, it just means we go back to the situation of head strong mods with no way for the normal user to voice their concerns. By limiting the ability of such a role will surely just make it defunct

Just a clarification as there seems to be some misunderstandings:

The powers of the ombudsman were never limited or downgraded but are just as Jason has intended them from the creation of the position.

deni wrote:Just a clarification as there seems to be some misunderstandings: the powers of the ombudsman were never limited but are just as Jason has intended them from the creation of the position.

odd because the following quote seems to suggest the ombudsman would not have to answer to or had less power then mods, but would work with admins

Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

renegadze wrote:

deni wrote:Just a clarification as there seems to be some misunderstandings: the powers of the ombudsman were never limited but are just as Jason has intended them from the creation of the position.

odd because the following quote seems to suggest the ombudsman would not have to answer to or had less power then mods, but would work with admins

Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

Investigate yes, but not overrule mod decisions WITHOUT the admin's consent.

Forum wrote:They are there to REPRESENT the users.
They can go directly to the Forum Admin team with issues, for individuals or groups of individuals, or specific issues or larger scale issues. (ie bad rule/bad mod decisions/unfair ban/ban that should have been but was not, etc etc).

It is up to the admin team, though, to make a decision based on the facts/reports of the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman does not make a decision, just a recommendation. Like always, the 2/3 majority in the current admin team should be used when it would normally -the Ombudsman does not add a 'vote' in any way. Think of it like an Ombudsman being a lawyer (or class action lawyer) and the 3 Forum Admins the 'grand court' who collectively makes the final call.....

deni wrote:

renegadze wrote:

deni wrote:Just a clarification as there seems to be some misunderstandings: the powers of the ombudsman were never limited but are just as Jason has intended them from the creation of the position.

odd because the following quote seems to suggest the ombudsman would not have to answer to or had less power then mods, but would work with admins

Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

Investigate yes, but not overrule mod decisions WITHOUT the admin's consent.

Forum wrote:They are there to REPRESENT the users.
They can go directly to the Forum Admin team with issues, for individuals or groups of individuals, or specific issues or larger scale issues. (ie bad rule/bad mod decisions/unfair ban/ban that should have been but was not, etc etc).

It is up to the admin team, though, to make a decision based on the facts/reports of the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman does not make a decision, just a recommendation. Like always, the 2/3 majority in the current admin team should be used when it would normally -the Ombudsman does not add a 'vote' in any way. Think of it like an Ombudsman being a lawyer (or class action lawyer) and the 3 Forum Admins the 'grand court' who collectively makes the final call.....

Then maybe the role should be re-labbeled, as that's not what an Ombusman does Inspector General seems a lot more fitting

deni wrote:

renegadze wrote:

deni wrote:Just a clarification as there seems to be some misunderstandings: the powers of the ombudsman were never limited but are just as Jason has intended them from the creation of the position.

odd because the following quote seems to suggest the ombudsman would not have to answer to or had less power then mods, but would work with admins

Authority
The Ombudsman, supported by Forum Admins, is granted the powers to fully investigate any relevant issues in a complaint.

Investigate yes, but not overrule mod decisions WITHOUT the admin's consent.

Forum wrote:They are there to REPRESENT the users.
They can go directly to the Forum Admin team with issues, for individuals or groups of individuals, or specific issues or larger scale issues. (ie bad rule/bad mod decisions/unfair ban/ban that should have been but was not, etc etc).

It is up to the admin team, though, to make a decision based on the facts/reports of the Ombudsman. The Ombudsman does not make a decision, just a recommendation. Like always, the 2/3 majority in the current admin team should be used when it would normally -the Ombudsman does not add a 'vote' in any way. Think of it like an Ombudsman being a lawyer (or class action lawyer) and the 3 Forum Admins the 'grand court' who collectively makes the final call.....

QFT.

[spoiler]when i saw this thread i was surprised, i just didnt expect it. but for goodness sake, this isnt the place to be arguing over the definition of the roles (yes, ive taken part now with my 'QFT' comment, bleh i know), but rather seeing off Zeek? and it seems blatant to me that this is just to sling a little mud before he leaves officially, and evidently its worked.

its up to Admin Jason to define the role of the Ombudsman, he has done so, whether or not that be through the input of the mods, players or both, it doesnt matter, its his decision. and i do NOT see any reason to empower the ombudsman staff to be able to operate in a way where they can act without admin permission. otherwise it undermines their authority, there's no other reasonable explanation.[/spoiler]

/rant. *slaps self*

back on topic i go: good luck in the future Zeek, barely knew you, but regardless: have fun.

~soul

~Vixion~ wrote:Well, we spoke about it a bit but i was 99% sure i could talk you out of it if we got on MSN... damn work stopped me from finding you. I'm going to miss you big Z, you've taught me a lot and i wont forget it, some very important lessons that will help me through out my future playing career here. I'm sure I'll catch you on msn and our lil nighty-chats will continue. You will be missed, and when you come back, you will be welcomed.

See you on MSN bud...

vix, i'm not leaving the game i'm leaving the forum adn the ombudsman position.

thank you all for the kind here they are realy apreciated

mordack, i know that your struggle against the ombudsman are not against the ppl doing the job but against the position itself. i will not hold it against you, and i know where it comes from. the ombudsman is the most hated person for the mdoerators becausse he is the one that can undo the mods descisions. to most he/she is vieuwd as a popular user who just got a fancy title and can now correct moderators who have been working very hard to mod this forum.

please know that i have no grudge against the mods what so ever, they have put tremendous effort into this forum on a voluntairy basis. all i do regret is that they want to cut down the only person who always is a 3th party in the discussion, the only party who will listen to both versions and a person who dedicates his time in finding every possible insight into a case.

sometimes the ombudmsan makes a different verdict then the moderator, why is this ? not becausse the mod made a wrong descision, no the mod has to act instantly, the ombudsman can take time to investigate and sometimes not everything is as it seems.

and about the ombudsman apeals, there realy isn't a problem with making the ombudsman able to make it's own descisions without admin say into it, why ?

either one of the partys, be it mod or user can apeal the ombudsman verdict with the admins during an admin apeal. this situation is there if 1 party feels completly mistreated by the ombudsman in his apeal. this possibility has always been there so there always was a higher power then the ombudsman if the need would ever arrise.

and do know that nearly any case the ombudsman handles are borderline cases, cases where we can both sympathise with the user and the mod. when we make a descision we concider every factor, even the one where we create precedents wich may causse problems in the future.

when we make a verdict we atach our personal name to it and it is hour honour that is questioned if we make the wrong one. now we have to present the case to the admins and we have to bring forward their verdict with our name on it and that is something i can no longer bare myself to do. if it is like that then the ombudsman just becomes the spokesperson for the forum admins and thus becomes a part of the forum administration and is no longer a 3th neutral party becausse it is controled

before we had to get the verdict made by the admins me and manetheren would pm alot and comunicate alot in our forum section, when the new rules came we gave it up becaausse it didn't mather anyway, we did our investigation and just gave it to the admins to make the call. we tryed to do our very best and give recomandations, but in the end it is just not the same.

i for one will not be used as a puppet, even if the admins are the most fair ppl on the forum they should not controle the only party who can investigate them.

zeekomkommer wrote:i for one will not be used as a puppet, even if the admins are the most fair ppl on the forum they should not controle the only party who can investigate them.

Ehm since when can the Ombudsman revieuw the admins? Cause a while back when a revieuw on an admin was needed the word was that it was not part of the ombudsmans role. If this has changed I would like to know as there is still an admin that needs to be revieuwed.

And I say it again Zeek: The ombudsman's power was never downgraded and there were never any new rules regarding his position or authority, no matter what certain people led you to believe.

There is a long post by Jason in the mod forums clarifying the roles of the admins, the mods and the ombudsman. You would be advised to read it.

Tetrismonkey wrote:

deni wrote:And I say it again Zeek: The ombudsman's power was never downgraded and there were never any new rules regarding his position or authority, no matter what certain people led you to believe.

There is a long post by Jason in the mod forums clarifying the roles of the admins, the mods and the ombudsman. You would be advised to read it.

deni, I don't wanna be mean or anything, but Robe, a forum admin has already stated that the powers were downgraded. I'm more willing to trust the word of an admin over just a mod.

If you look a few post up you can see a direct quote from Jason. Seeing he is higher up the food chain, I am willing to trust his word more then the word of any admin


Anyways, IMO the position of the ombudsman and his duties/authority is up for Jason to decide and not the admins. After all the ombudsman is supposed to provide a (limited) counterbalance to the admin/mod staff and it would make his position even more useless then it is now if the admins could strip of or provide him with more powers.

Tetrismonkey wrote:

deni wrote:And I say it again Zeek: The ombudsman's power was never downgraded and there were never any new rules regarding his position or authority, no matter what certain people led you to believe.

There is a long post by Jason in the mod forums clarifying the roles of the admins, the mods and the ombudsman. You would be advised to read it.

deni, I don't wanna be mean or anything, but Robe, a forum admin has already stated that the powers were downgraded. I'm more willing to trust the word of an admin over just a mod.

The permissions were not downgraded or upgraded. When Jack was ombudsman he handled things a certain way (his way) When pianomutt was ombudsman he did things his way. Now mane and Zeek were ombuds and they did their things their way. There was no real set out guideline for the ombudsman untill zeek made one where 90% of the mod staff disagreed with. Therefor Jason made a post with guidelines for admins, mods and ombudsman.

Ow and believing Robe on her word might bite you in the behind one day bud (thats my oppinion). Id rather believe 5 mods who say the same then one admin in this case (but aybe thats cause i know what Jason said about the roles and even have logs of em)