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I've heard numerous news reports and opinion polls regarding a push towards Universal Health Care in the United States. However, one idea seems to be floated around, and I would like it justified. I hear all too often "Universal Health Care won't work in [isn't good for] the United States". I live in Australia (we call ours Medicare). I could not imagine how our health system would function without it.

I would like to know, why do so many people believe that Universal Health Care will not work in the US?

In the interests of getting a fair discussion, I would like to lay down a couple of rules:

* Limit responses to 150 words. Choose your arguments carefully. Hopefully this will avoid propaganda and waffle.
* Responses may not make references/criticisms about particular political administrations/affiliations/parties. I want to know why the principle itself won't work; I don't care if you think that Obama is really a witch-doctor from Nairobi who has no idea how to run a meat raffle, let alone a health care system.

Really.... why do I keep hearing about why it won't work/can't work?

I need to start watching some more reliable news sources.

One major argument i've heard against it in America is that it will mean people can't just buy their way to the top of waiting lists, but I am Irish and living in Ireland so others will prob know more reasons.

Poppler King wrote:One major argument i've heard against it in America is that it will mean people can't just buy their way to the top of waiting lists, but I am Irish and living in Ireland so others will prob know more reasons.

Funny thing about the bolded part: in certain (european) necks of the woods, the mere posibilitiy of a situation in which one COULD simply buy their way to the top of a waiting list is borderline criminal and a major major argument against moving into the US-system direction.

Just goes to show how different the mentalities are heh.

Greed came to mind for me too.

I pictured masses of doctors marching towards the capitol, holding placards that read "Doctors' rights to earn a fair living".... no-one would be able to read them, because doctors have appalling handwriting. I could imagine the media coverage, as a reporter interviews one particularly distraught doctor.....

*sobs* "Universal Health Care is killing us all...." *sob* "Last week, the bank threatened to repossess my yacht..... now how are my children supposed to cruise the mediterranean?" *bursts into a fit of tears*

Greased Gerbil wrote:Greed came to mind for me too.

I pictured masses of doctors marching towards the capitol, holding placards that read "Doctors' rights to earn a fair living".... no-one would be able to read them, because doctors have appalling handwriting. I could imagine the media coverage, as a reporter interviews one particularly distraught doctor.....

*sobs* "Universal Health Care is killing us all...." *sob* "Last week, the bank threatened to repossess my yacht..... now how are my children supposed to cruise the mediterranean?" *bursts into a fit of tears*

lol

A popular argument against Universal Health Care that I have seen lately is apparently the government is going to mass murder grannies.

Phlamingoe wrote:A popular argument against Universal Health Care that I have seen lately is apparently the government is going to mass murder grannies.

That's actually a fairly good point. I have heard the other side, in which seriously ill 20-somethings die because the hospital beds they need get taken up by hopelessly ill elderly patients just waiting to die.

It adds an argument to the debate. Are there certain things that shouldn't be covered by Univ Health Care?

Then there's the fact of the disproportionate pay between doctors and other health employees. The resident cardiologist gets a half-million and a free BMW per year, nurses and paramedics get chicken feed...

Well, if the medical and pharmaceutical professions didn't revolve around profiting from others' medical conditions and disabilities, perhaps it would be more efficient at providing cost-effective, natural remedies. The problem with those is that they cannot be patented.

If the profit issue were changed, we might be able to start talking about things like free healthcare, because the numbers we'd be discussing, in terms of costs, demand for healthcare, etc, would be different.

Why do we go to the grocery store and have to check if poison's been added to our food in the form of carcinogenic preservatives and pesticides? Why do doctors have a large tendency to support pharmaceutical products over natural ones with less side-effects? Why do pharmaceutical products always cause other problems when they solve one? Are we meant to remain in perpetual sickness in order to feed the corporate machine that profits from that sickness, thereby having no motivation to even attempt to cure it completely?

Agapooka

I doth protest the form with which you ask your question sir.

Consider "Will Universal Health Care work in the USA?"

Utopia Versus Freedom
By Thomas Sowell
Columns icon

* Tuesday, 4 August 2009

"Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." We have heard that many times. What is also the price of freedom is the toleration of imperfections. If everything that is wrong with the world becomes a reason to turn more power over to some political savior, then freedom is going to erode away, while we are mindlessly repeating the catchwords of the hour, whether "change," "universal health care" or "social justice."

If we can be so easily stampeded by rhetoric that neither the public nor the Congress can be bothered to read, much less analyze, bills making massive changes in medical care, then do not be surprised when life and death decisions about you or your family are taken out of your hands-- and out of the hands of your doctor-- and transferred to bureaucrats in Washington.

Let's go back to square one. The universe was not made to our specifications. Nor were human beings. So there is nothing surprising in the fact that we are dissatisfied with many things at many times. The big question is whether we are prepared to follow any politician who claims to be able to "solve" our "problem."

If we are, then there will be a never ending series of "solutions," each causing new problems calling for still more "solutions." That way lies a never-ending quest, costing ever increasing amounts of the taxpayers' money and-- more important-- ever greater losses of your freedom to live your own life as you see fit, rather than as presumptuous elites dictate.

Ultimately, our choice is to give up Utopian quests or give up our freedom. This has been recognized for centuries by some, but many others have not yet faced that reality, even today. If you think government should "do something" about anything that ticks you off, or anything you want and don't have, then you have made your choice between Utopia and freedom.

Back in the 18th century, Edmund Burke said, "It is no inconsiderable part of wisdom, to know much of an evil ought to be tolerated" and "I must bear with infirmities until they fester into crimes."

But today's crusading zealots are not about to tolerate evils or infirmities. If insurance companies are not behaving the way some people think they should, then their answer is to set up a government bureaucracy to either control insurance companies or replace them.

If doctors, hospitals or pharmaceutical companies charge more than some people feel like paying, then the answer is price control. The actual track record of politicians, government bureaucracies, or price control is of no interest to those who think this way.

Politicians are already one of the main reasons why medical insurance is so expensive. Insurance is designed to cover risks but politicians are in the business of distributing largesse. Nothing is easier for politicians than to mandate things that insurance companies must cover, without the slightest regard for how such additional coverage will raise the cost of insurance.

If insurance covered only those things that most people are most concerned about-- the high cost of a major medical expense-- the price would be much lower than it is today, with politicians piling on mandate after mandate.

Since insurance covers risks, there is no reason for it to cover annual checkups, because it is known in advance that annual checkups occur once a year. Automobile insurance does not cover oil changes, much less the purchase of gasoline, since these are regular recurrences, not risks.

But politicians in the business of distributing largesse-- especially with somebody else's money-- cannot resist the temptation to pass laws adding things to insurance coverage. Many of those who are pushing for more government involvement in medical care are already talking about extending insurance coverage to "mental health"-- which is to say, giving shrinks and hypochondriacs a blank check drawn on the federal treasury.

There are still some voices of sanity today, echoing what Edmund Burke said long ago. "The study of human institutions is always a search for the most tolerable imperfections," according to Prof. Richard Epstein of the University of Chicago. If you cannot tolerate imperfections, be prepared to kiss your freedom goodbye.

COPYRIGHT 2009 CREATORS.COM

I have to marvel at people seeing some great infringment uppon massive rights and some boogie man in such things... The way some people spin this it`s like the entire Europe that employs a more social capitalism is borderline totalitarian.
I mean, how long can you cite 18th century wisdome as ultimate in human development and brand everyting else a utopia destined to fail & rob you of your individuality in the process lol?

Well the way i veiw it most people can get free health care in the US. Grant it if you can afford it they will make you pay it. So realy it comes down to greed, over price doctors. If you get the free health care pretty much good luck finding a place that will take you and god forbid you piss off your case worker that gave you health care (no longer can get it in certain US STATES) they will black list you and no longer be able to get it again.

If you need something done, like i went in for heart issues. Now me with no insurance has to go in, i get the bill and now i have to pay out of pocket. One asprin cost 18$ USD. run of the mills thing where i could get 800 of them at any local store but i get charge for it, let alone everything else they did, sittin in there waiting room cost me 400$ alone let alone for a nurse to some in and that was 500$ plus the doctor fee, and the list go on and on.

Now honestly if they did more fair bills and didnt be so gready and take all the insurance money or try to.(idk maybe they got deals) health care could be more affordable or even Univeral in the US, i know i would be glad if they can fix it,

BUT there a way to go about health bill just tell dont pay them and go in debt like the rest of everyone

The first thing they need to do is quit serving damn illegals in our hospitals and Emergency rooms. That would save BILLIONS in tax payer dollars in Health Care. Pack there asses in cattle trucks and send them back across the border then shoot any that return.