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Seriously, what this lot needs is a firm hand. Obviously when you allow them to homeschool and procreate like your average rabbits, you promote the mushrooming of ridiculous fantasies. No. The solution, as always, is simple but drastic. Given the mindset of the average person, it won't ever become a reality, but here goes, once more unto the breach!

. Education (tuition fees and book expenses) is free for all citizens (immigrant and full alike), and is obligatory for everyone under 18. People who show exceptional ability are promoted to higher education (more fine-tuned to their capacities and aiming to unlock their full potential). People who are unable to pass a basic survivability (physical and mental health) test by the age of 16 will be relocated until they are able to pass their test.
. Healthcare is free for full citizens, market pricing applies for immigrant citizens, and very basic healthcare will be awarded to non-citizens unless there are exceptional circumstances regarding their citizenship. Long-term (1+ year) hospitalization is not an option for any citizen under full citizen level. Healthcare is paid for by corporations, who in turn receive free (proportional) airtime for commercials on any state-subsidized networks (time is increased/decreased as budgetary needs vary).
. All human reproduction before personal debts are cleared is prohibited. Illegal offspring of proper physique will be awarded to infertile, eligible persons. Immigrant-citizens without personal debts are allowed to reproduce within the limits set by the state authorities, depending on work availability and education capacity.
. Immigration ends tonight. Batch immigration based on work availability will be a considerable option to relieve pressure on the citizenry. However, police will not actively hunt for illegal immigrants. Any (illegal) immigrant who keeps a job (and as such, out of the police's sights) for 1 year and 1 day will be awarded immigrant-citizenship. After another 7 years of crimeless employment, full citizenship can be awarded.
. Citizenship will be taken from people who are officially bankrupt, and/or sentenced in cases regarding felonies. One month after clearing of their debts, citizenship will be restored to their previous level.
. All citizens are allowed the right to vote. Immigrant citizens are not allowed in any political office. Any office above mayor requires unchallenged evidence of fourth generation citizenship (person, parents, grandparents and greatgrandparents have to have been full citizens without interruptions - i.e. personal debts/clean justice sheet).
. Anyone serving in the Police force will be awarded £ 25k upon finishing a 25 year term of service without any substantiated complaints lodged against them. Similar arrangements will be made for Fire department, Emergency Coordination personnel.
. Convicts are allowed no personal possessions other than money, and their personal possessions will be converted to money upon starting serving a 15+ year sentence. State penitentiary facilities provide a survivable situation for any and all convicts, regardless of their crimes. Capital punishment is allowed as per state authority's decision, amnesty can be granted by state and federal authorities. In situations where a threat against the nation is imminent, any and all rights of convicts can and will be suspended at the federal government's discretion. 90% majority vote is required (which in the case of a threat to the nation will contain a 25% vote of the Head of State - tiebreaker).
. Legislation is under continuous evaluation by a special federal commission, working together with Federal and State Supreme Courts. In situations where international cooperation is agreeable, this commission will also cooperate with the International Court.
. Popular votes (referendum) can be called at the discretion of state and federal authorities. This vote will account for 51% in regards to any decision the populace is called to vote upon. Voting facilities will be made available upon acquisition of (any kind of) citizenship.



I think I was.. gentle.. don't let the first few proposals shock you into not reading on. Also, don't dismiss the proposals because it is I who propose them. No one here is that petty. (Except perhaps me.. *hides*)

you would make a great Govt official...

I FLAT OUT REJECT BIG GOVT, AND GOVT HAS NO BUSINESS INTERFERING IN PEOPLES LIVES...FULL STOP!

anyone who supports big Govt should be stoned to death in a public square...including Govt officials

Universe, I'd agree from the perspective that the masses are sheep who must be guided, regulated and restricted for their own good. The system that you've proposed, for the most part, and if administrated honestly (lmao), would help those among us who are too misguided and dependant upon the proverbial milk of mother state. However, it fails to distinguish between those who are competent to administrate their own affairs and those who are not.

Furthermore, the proposition that it is necessary to eliminate debt in order to be allowed to found a family would only be logical to one that is competent to administrate his own affairs; however, he may choose not to consent to it being enforced upon himself for reasons of insult for the state's inability to recognise his competence.

The question, then, is as follows: "how ought the state distinguish between competent and incompetent?" This question, however, can be followed by another: "Is the state competent to distinguish between competent and incompetent?" Having an incompetent authority will never compensate for the alleged incompetence of those under its jurisdiction. It may even harm, hinder, obstruct or otherwise hamper those whose competence and peaceable lives have been consistently thus and which no competent authority has ever been able to substantiate to be otherwise.

The truth is, compentence carries many responsibilities. It has been my experience and observation that authorities have based decisions on frivolities, made false claims with the purpose of perpetuating falsehoods, engaged in irresponsible activities within their respective roles, where persons in positions of authority have omitted to act in good faith towards their constituents and have lacked due diligence in the administration of financial affairs, resulting in wasteful spending, inefficient funding of various programmes and therefore have lacked justification for the level of taxation for which it is claimed that citizens are held liable.

Agapooka

Sounds quite good in general!

However...there's one or two minor problems in this whole project.
I think the first idea (education), for higher education, shouldn't be too much high leveled, but I totally agree on the fact that not everyone should be allowed to go to university if they aren't "skilled" enough.
I think people scoring good and more (not exceptional, too restrictive imo) should be granted access to university. However, I doubt a significant part of young population could last until their 18th year in education (sadly, there is a good bunch of stupid and/or hopeless people in the population that can't be saved, I refer to rioters and the likes)
Problem of overpopulating. (the reproduction part, adding a little more to it) I think that there should be something like in China regarding people who are immigrants (if they match personal debt or not being included, I don't really know about it, those not matching it are included anyway) and those not having a decent level of education, as well as for people who are convicted. The first two are generally those who happen to do most children, and therefore, must be controlled. Also those who tend to produce most likely future thugs and outlaw people. Therefore, a limitation on their amount of allowed children must apply. But generally, I think it's somehow close to what you said, isn't it?

As for people losing citizenship when they reach bankruptcy, well, depends what bankruptcy is...(when do we reach it).

I couldn't really find more things "against" that whole project...
Well, it's just few details listed that I am disagreeing with, the overall, I follow!

Universe wrote:

I think I was.. gentle.. don't let the first few proposals shock you into not reading on. Also, don't dismiss the proposals because it is I who propose them. No one here is that petty. (Except perhaps me.. *hides*)

To be honest that was more or less what I would have proposed if I wanted to do such topic...


Jo for president of the EU!

Apophis The Great wrote:

Jo for president of the EU!

hey Jimbo, what happened to Cole?


anyways, a better thing to say is "NO EU", FULL STOP!

[KMA]Avenger wrote:

Apophis The Great wrote:

Jo for president of the EU!

hey Jimbo, what happened to Cole?


anyways, a better thing to say is "NO EU", FULL STOP!

Cole my other account is still around, but I'm on a break from sgw/forums for august, I just used this one there this weekend to visit around before vanishing again for few weeks more. (not fvanishing rom msn though)

And well, I= hardcore EU supporter, according to euprofiler. Fan of the structure, but not of all decisions they take (but well nothing is perfect!).
I voted for an EPP party in elections...ALDE or EPP that was for me, finally picked EPP in the ballot.

i kind of guessed you are hard core EU mate.


as for me, the only thing i would like to do with the EU is stick it in the rear end of Lord Rothschild and blow it up!

I guessed so that you aren't fond of EU, seeing your avatar/sig and comments towards EU. Well, I'm sure I couldn't be able to change your mind therefore I will not try it!

Oh and I felt like involving EU, because I felt her reforms ideas were worth it for whole EU (in my opinion! ); I don't know if she meant it for particular country/continent though.

Apophis The Great wrote:I guessed so that you aren't fond of EU, seeing your avatar/sig and comments towards EU. Well, I'm sure I couldn't be able to change your mind therefore I will not try it!

seriously Jim, i don't believe in ANY institution that destroys the sovereignty or freedoms of ANY nation, and where unelected officials can dictate policy's for EVERYONE.

Yet you do not support a new world order? How .. enticing.
You live in the system you describe to hate, yet protest changes.

I find that to be somewhat, what is the word, inconsistent.



Your dream of absolute individualism, absolute freedom, if ever realised, will result in the death of humanity.

Answer me this, if you will.. should a man, whose only interest is to breathe, be allowed to vote on the affairs of those who have other interests besides survival?

erm...you've completely lost me

the NWO is a death cult, nothing more and nothing less, so obviously i do not support it. the EU,UN,CFR, IMF,World Bank, Bank Of England, Federal Reserve, Trilateral Commission, The Ford Foundation The Rockefeller Foundation, Microsoft, all western Govts, the Vatican, The Bilderberg Group, Club Of Rome, Illuminati, Freemasons etc etc, are ALL extensions of the NWO/Elites, what ever you want to call those that pull the strings...

again, just so there is NO misunderstanding...I HATE THEM ALL!

[KMA]Avenger wrote:erm...you've completely lost me

the NWO is a death cult, nothing more and nothing less, so obviously i do not support it. the EU,UN,CFR, IMF,World Bank, Bank Of England, Federal Reserve, Trilateral Commission, The Ford Foundation The Rockefeller Foundation, Microsoft, all western Govts, the Vatican, The Bilderberg Group, Club Of Rome, Illuminati, Freemasons etc etc, are ALL extensions of the NWO/Elites, what ever you want to call those that pull the strings...

again, just so there is NO misunderstanding...I HATE THEM ALL!

What you said reminds me of "The Project" by The Syndicate in The X-Files.
Who is C.G.B. Spender/Cigarette Smoking Man in all of this?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

This death cult exists doesn't mean blowing out of proportions its impact is a good thing. You just create terror more than there should be.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:erm...you've completely lost me

the NWO is a death cult, nothing more and nothing less, so obviously i do not support it. the EU,UN,CFR, IMF,World Bank, Bank Of England, Federal Reserve, Trilateral Commission, The Ford Foundation The Rockefeller Foundation, Microsoft, all western Govts, the Vatican, The Bilderberg Group, Club Of Rome, Illuminati, Freemasons etc etc, are ALL extensions of the NWO/Elites, what ever you want to call those that pull the strings...

again, just so there is NO misunderstanding...I HATE THEM ALL!

Yes, yes.. I know that.
My point is, you are living and working in the very system you despise. You are helping it maintain.

Whether you call it "new" world order or "present" world order doesn't change anything.. it is here, and it is a full and complete reality. You, a citizen, are living in it. In relative wealth, I presume, for if you were poor and desolate, you would be irresponsible to be online, and I really don't think you are. Either way, you're in the top 10% of the wealthiest system's citizens. It is quite easy for you to talk, from your relative safety.

In any case, your protests, no matter how 'loud', will never suffice to change the system as it is. So tell me, why are you wasting your breath, or in this case.. your wrists?



Also:

Universe wrote:Answer me this, if you will.. should a man, whose only interest is to breathe, be allowed to vote on the affairs of those who have other interests besides survival?

(Keep in mind that you are of the gifted few who have more interests besides mere survival.)

People against the current system just have to create a party (or join one..) and try to unite themselves in it to change things...because if they were to try to resist with force, nobody would like the outcome (it would cause losses that nobody wants).
Well, anyway, there are already anti system parties afterall.
Just that their ideals aren't very...attractive to say the least.

Universe wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:erm...you've completely lost me

the NWO is a death cult, nothing more and nothing less, so obviously i do not support it. the EU,UN,CFR, IMF,World Bank, Bank Of England, Federal Reserve, Trilateral Commission, The Ford Foundation The Rockefeller Foundation, Microsoft, all western Govts, the Vatican, The Bilderberg Group, Club Of Rome, Illuminati, Freemasons etc etc, are ALL extensions of the NWO/Elites, what ever you want to call those that pull the strings...

again, just so there is NO misunderstanding...I HATE THEM ALL!

Yes, yes.. I know that.
My point is, you are living and working in the very system you despise. You are helping it maintain.

Whether you call it "new" world order or "present" world order doesn't change anything.. it is here, and it is a full and complete reality. You, a citizen, are living in it. In relative wealth, I presume, for if you were poor and desolate, you would be irresponsible to be online, and I really don't think you are. Either way, you're in the top 10% of the wealthiest system's citizens. It is quite easy for you to talk, from your relative safety.

In any case, your protests, no matter how 'loud', will never suffice to change the system as it is. So tell me, why are you wasting your breath, or in this case.. your wrists?

ACTUALLY...i do not support the system in any way shape or form, i don't vote i don't, or, a more accurate description is, i REFUSE to work and i pay as few bills as possible. the reason i do this?! a short answer is, because its the right thing to do.

Universe wrote:Also:

Universe wrote:Answer me this, if you will.. should a man, whose only interest is to breathe, be allowed to vote on the affairs of those who have other interests besides survival?

(Keep in mind that you are of the gifted few who have more interests besides mere survival.)

hmmm...trying to think how best to answer this, there's a few ways to answer it, but i wont be able to give you a single answer that would cover all sides of that question.

i think the best way i can answer it is to say that, such people should be educated to take an interest in every aspect of life and society. just because someone is only interested in their survival (or self interests for that matter) doesn't mean they cannot be taught to think past their own selfishness, nor should such people be just left to it as it were....you could also say, if the education system worked as it should, then such people would be VERY rare indeed....and yet 1 more way to answer that is, if the apathetic populace would wake up there wouldn't be any such people.

where are you going with this?

Apophis The Great wrote:People against the current system just have to create a party (or join one..) and try to unite themselves in it to change things...

jim, its impossible to change the current system, the corruption is out of control and is getting worse...

take the resent bank bail outs in the US and UK, just in the US alone, over 24 Trillion has been stolen and the congress has asked the fed who the TARP funds and bailout money has been give to and the fed wont answer the congress.
in the UK, all the bad mortgages have gone into the Northern Rock bank and the theft is beyond imagination...

you going to change that level of corruption?