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What do you think about it?

For my own personal opinion, to introduce that, I would quite more likely agree with the following image:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

In other words, I strongly disagree. It's reducing women to mere inferior creatures, not having the right to appear in public, like if it was a shame to be women, and having no rights to appear like men are allowed to in those countries or neighboorhoods. It's a blantant incarnation of forced submission (or propaganded for those pretending they do it freely) and cutting basic rights if you ask me.
Not to mention the security issues it rises (any criminal can hide easily behind that and not recognized). It happend already and will happen again.

This is not a debate whether islam is a right/good religion or not, it's about the issues raised by veil different forms and burqa.

I dont agree with it but its there tradition you cant really tell them its wrong.

it doesn't matter what we think about it, only what these women think about the Burqa. we in the west make the proud and bold statement that we are free people living in a free society and we go around the world smashing and invading whole nations because we want everyone else to be as free as we are (yeah right! ), and yet we deny these people their right to practice their culture?!

the issue of security doesn't come into it, if people are scared of a woman behind a veil then laws can be passed outlawing all forms of veils and send these people home or obey the laws of the land...but what if they are born in said nation and want to practice their culture freely?

personally i dont agree with the Burqa...but then again, i'm not a Muslim.

[KMA]Avenger wrote:it doesn't matter what we think about it, only what these women think about the Burqa. we in the west make the proud and bold statement that we are free people living in a free society and we go around the world smashing and invading whole nations because we want everyone else to be as free as we are (yeah right! ), and yet we deny these people their right to practice their culture?!

the issue of security doesn't come into it, if people are scared of a woman behind a veil then laws can be passed outlawing all forms of veils and send these people home or obey the laws of the land...but what if they are born in said nation and want to practice their culture freely?

personally i dont agree with the Burqa...but then again, i'm not a Muslim.

G, I'm talking about worldwide, that includes european countries having to deal with it, therefore then yes we can tell them what to do because those things don't appear only in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Yemen!

Culture where they molest women because they cheated on their husband? Yes right. Whatever. (oh yes I'm talking about particular issues that's what I would be told, but what goes along with burqa is the wort of the worst) Because what goes along with veil such as the one in the picture and burqa are the most archaic and primitives dogmas. Thus charia demands to become new law (Islam 4 UK), submission of women etc...middle age like traditions, like we had during middle age. And of course muslims who disagree receive threats to shut it because it's typically those kind of people who are a sort of menace to fundamentalists because they disagree with their archaic theories.
There's international rights for men women and children therefore your argument is invalid about not telling others what to do.

The issue of security doesn't come into it...oh yes it does! Didn't one of the London bombers hid under a burqa?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/2886/mor ... terrorist/
Yes it did. Thanks God my memory works sometimes.
So yes, security doesn't come into it.

As for laws, don't worry France is starting to think about it. Banning the burqa from France, at least one country decided to start the obvious, and it's mine!

Byrnes wrote:I dont agree with it but its there tradition you cant really tell them its wrong.

In their own countries not really, but when it happens in Europe or America, yes we can. Because we also got our own traditions...

the women wear it coz it stops them being judged pieces of meat, for their own security snd makes connections based not on looks

western world could learn a thing or 2 from these morals

Legendary Apophis wrote:

[KMA]Avenger wrote:it doesn't matter what we think about it, only what these women think about the Burqa. we in the west make the proud and bold statement that we are free people living in a free society and we go around the world smashing and invading whole nations because we want everyone else to be as free as we are (yeah right! ), and yet we deny these people their right to practice their culture?!

the issue of security doesn't come into it, if people are scared of a woman behind a veil then laws can be passed outlawing all forms of veils and send these people home or obey the laws of the land...but what if they are born in said nation and want to practice their culture freely?

personally i dont agree with the Burqa...but then again, i'm not a Muslim.

G, I'm talking about worldwide, that includes european countries having to deal with it, therefore then yes we can tell them what to do because those things don't appear only in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Yemen!

Culture where they molest women because they cheated on their husband? Yes right. Whatever. (oh yes I'm talking about particular issues that's what I would be told, but what goes along with burqa is the wort of the worst) Because what goes along with veil such as the one in the picture and burqa are the most archaic and primitives dogmas. Thus charia demands to become new law (Islam 4 UK), submission of women etc...middle age like traditions, like we had during middle age. And of course muslims who disagree receive threats to shut it because it's typically those kind of people who are a sort of menace to fundamentalists because they disagree with their archaic theories.
There's international rights for men women and children therefore your argument is invalid about not telling others what to do.

The issue of security doesn't come into it...oh yes it does! Didn't one of the London bombers hid under a burqa?

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/2886/mor ... terrorist/
Yes it did. Thanks God my memory works sometimes.
So yes, security doesn't come into it.

As for laws, don't worry France is starting to think about it. Banning the burqa from France, at least one country decided to start the obvious, and it's mine!

Byrnes wrote:I dont agree with it but its there tradition you cant really tell them its wrong.

In their own countries not really, but when it happens in Europe or America, yes we can. Because we also got our own traditions...

so jim, if you were to go to another country and tried to celebrate christmas, but told it was banned, it wouldn't annoy you?
or if there was a country you lived in thats culture was to have a shaved head, but you wanted to walk around in public with a full head of hair, you'd be fine with allowing them to shave your head because of their culture?

i really don't see how it cause such a stir, and i know its a massive problem in france, or has been. but thats because of the high levels of immigrants coming from those coutries you invaded way back when.

free world ftw terms and conditions apply.

apophis, u can try at least to read a lil from their culture b4 judging. u ll learn a lot and at least u can compare between one wit pumped fake boobs and one dressed that way.

Given how members of christianity etc are persecuted in countries around the middle east and prevented from having churches or gatherings or bibles etc, I think that when they come to a country like say the UK where hiding your face is considered a sign of ill intent & criminality they should have to at least have their head uncovered.

Kit-Fox wrote:Given how members of christianity etc are persecuted in countries around the middle east and prevented from having churches or gatherings or bibles etc, I think that when they come to a country like say the UK where hiding your face is considered a sign of ill intent & criminality they should have to at least have their head uncovered.

in which country of middle est isnt allowed not to have a church???????

Well for a long saudi arabia, although I gather that very recently that is starting to change, albeit very slowly.

I'm sure if I looked I could probably find more, probably starting with say Iran

EDIT: I should point out that by church I meant places of worship for roman catholics & christians in general. Rather than places of worship for other faiths.

Lithium wrote:apophis, u can try at least to read a lil from their culture b4 judging. u ll learn a lot and at least u can compare between one wit pumped fake boobs and one dressed that way.

Not worth commenting.

solmyr wrote:the women wear it coz it stops them being judged pieces of meat, for their own security snd makes connections based not on looks

western world could learn a thing or 2 from these morals

Make connections? Dude you live in a dream. Those wearing burqas or integral veil have to go outside with their husband or brother. It's men who have to control themselves, not women who have to hide themselves, and if they do hide this way it means men are not better than primitive animals, so another heavy critic on the way.

Western world could learn from them? Are you crazy or what?????
Learn from islamists? Dude, are you damned serious?
Should I call FBI for a potential fundamental islamism supporter or?

Maddog wrote:so jim, if you were to go to another country and tried to celebrate christmas, but told it was banned, it wouldn't annoy you?
or if there was a country you lived in thats culture was to have a shaved head, but you wanted to walk around in public with a full head of hair, you'd be fine with allowing them to shave your head because of their culture?

i really don't see how it cause such a stir, and i know its a massive problem in france, or has been. but thats because of the high levels of immigrants coming from those coutries you invaded way back when.

free world ftw terms and conditions apply.

Those countries don't accept as Kit fox said our traditions, just because those people whine conveniently we are democracy and thus every kind of foolish traditions being able to be done just because those countries aren't democracies and we are is a laughable argument! As afterall we also have traditions and laws and they conveniently forget about it.
As far as I know, christmas isn't a problem and cannot be compared to veil or burka, unless you consider christmas to be an oppressive thing for practicers or a form of extremism from christianism? Therefore, point solved.
Our women have to hide themselves when they go in such countries (in Egypt a french journalist had to hide her arms because it wasn't acceptable, but of course they are allowed to wear burqas in Europe. No sorry, I don't kneel down like a scared man to double standards theories! )

And you don't seem to realize it's not only about France lol! UK, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, even Italy, are all suffering from this invasion of integral veils like in the image (or those you can see in Saudi Arabia ie). Islamophobia? Those who say so that they should have right to wear that in our countries, either are allied to said fundamentalists or are just among the political correctness hyperbolism given with a bit of head in the sand. Because afterall to enlight the unknowing ones, the Tunisian leader called Burgiba forbidden veil in the 50s or was it the 60s, but the forbidden veils law was removed few years ago. That tells you about the archaism taking over modernism that was around.
Afghanistan was a modern country where women were allowed to walk without veil or anything of that sort in the 70's...see where it's at now. Back to middle age. Primitivism is taking over and hiding head in sand will only help them!

aphopis u are in idiot , really lol

islam is a religion not a terrorist group.so far from numers is the biggest in nr from all religions.
my religion is islam not that im a practicant due to being grow in a commie era. there are worse examples in christian religion however who trully belive hold no anger for the next , rather is he/sh muslim/catholic or a color man.
learn little kid

Lithium wrote:aphopis u are in idiot , really lol

You are right. I am an idiot. I tell the truth!!! Truth hurts as they say! When I am called an idiot by people who hold such speech as you, I translate that it means I am smart.
It just displays over emotionalness from your side versus my rational side, which differenciate islam from fundamentalism, while your post induce that it's the same (as afterall I made a difference and you pretend I didn't, thus counter proving my differenciating resulting into a proof that both are similar). I have to disagree with you because I stated I don't think so.

islam is a religion not a terrorist group.so far from numers is the biggest in nr from all religions.
my religion is islam not that im a practicant due to being grow in a commie era. there are worse examples in christian religion however who trully belive hold no anger for the next , rather is he/sh muslim/catholic or a color man.

You start by false numbers oh well. Christians are largest amount in the world. Islam cmoes second.

Oh let's start the "omg I am soooo offensed he criticized burqa and fundamentalists therefore he's islamophobic and racist and against islam!!!!!" OMG that's typical ignorance from facts and/or a leftist speech. When I criticize christian extremism (for example) from past and present, it does *not* mean (OBVIOUSLY) I am anti christian (I fail to understand how can some people come to this conclusion regarding me, it's beyond my understanding, which is based on rationality, this explaining I fail to understand such reasoning )

learn little kid

Awww have to resort on insults because my posts are stating the obvious (typical hehe). And thank you very much I have learnt and still learn, I am on my second university year in history and am 20 years old.
Therefore I can only laugh at your pathetic insult.
If someone has to learn about things, it's you.


PS:

myself wrote:This is not a debate whether islam is a right/good religion or not, it's about the issues raised by veil different forms and burqa.

You self owned yourself much?

i will ignore the comment (because i dont want to derail your thread) about the London bomber wearing a Burqa because you dont have the facts, and you wont like what i have to say about the matter.


Jim, what if these women who where Burqas want to ware them? all issues of security to 1 side, if we deny any race which lives in the west their right to practice their culture then we may as well shut the boarders and those that wont accept and live 100% according to the indigenous culture-be thrown into the sea.

i'm sorry mate, you cant have it both ways, you cant say "we are a free and open society...unless your wearing Burqas!".

[KMA]Avenger wrote:i will ignore the comment (because i dont want to derail your thread) about the London bomber wearing a Burqa because you dont have the facts, and you wont like what i have to say about the matter.


Jim, what if these women who where Burqas want to ware them? all issues of security to 1 side, if we deny any race which lives in the west their right to practice their culture then we may as well shut the boarders and those that wont accept and live 100% according to the indigenous culture-be thrown into the sea.

i'm sorry mate, you cant have it both ways, you cant say "we are a free and open society...unless your wearing Burqas!".

You seem to forget that propaganda as its role there. You keep saying we do things by our own will but infact we are manipulated by x or y corporation/group. Why wouldn't it be same here? As it's infact the case anyway.

Muppetery is a common known thing, theorists manipulate people into following them trying to prove they followed this path by themselves. Is it my case? No, I have witnessed what I'm talking about more or less in real life, it's not like if I lived in a seperate "sphere" without a clue of what's going on and drinking propaganda like if it was good wine.

I'm sorry but we cannot accept sub-cultures overriding our own country rules.

PS: for any random person who would be tempted to accuse me of silly things such as being a fascist a racist or no idea what ridiculous path...
This is the party I'm from. [spoiler][/spoiler]