Planets - Beacons primarily, affects all planet attacks
Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:44 am
Intro
Hey folks! We all know what planets are (I hope); and anyone who's so much as looked at them knows they have beacons. These beacons are useful little buggers, they allow you to find your planet no matter where it is, no matter who has it, no matter what phase it's in (MPDSD / no MPDSD). They come for the small price of a bil each, and any dual planet you come across is guaranteed to have about a hundred of these little buggers on them.
The problem
They cost a bil each, and (that I know of) have no limit. What does this mean? Essentially, that there is no way to steal a planet that's worth anything stealthily. Yes, you can phase (merlins) the planet regardless; but, in my opinion, that shouldn't be the only way to keep a planet that's worth taking. Simply: If the planet is worth taking the effort to 'stealthily' steal it, then it's going to be loaded up with beacons.
Why do I think that this is a bad thing? Well, a lot of people would argue it isn't, but I ask you all just to think about planets for a minute. After they're taken, you have 12 hours in which to take the planet back with no resistance other than planetary defences. On top of this, it's easy to keep a planet MPDSD'd 24/7 regardless. So to 'steal' a planet, you already need to get above and beyond lucky, then you need to hide it! Isn't it hard enough without beacons?
A solution
This needs to take several things into consideration (in my opinion):
- Ease of retaking a planet soon after it's been taken.
- Possible RL issues.
- Newer and older players.
- Ability to 'hide' a planet.
- BALANCE!
To those ends, the solution I'm proposing has to be semi-complex; but as planets play such a large roll in the game these days, I feel they're worth the time and effort.
Issue 1: Retaking the planet -
At present PPT will affect the planet 12 hours after it's been taken; I believe this is too 'general' of a solution to truly deal with the situation. The problem is, there are two reasons to take a planet: 1) to deprive an enemy (war), 2) to aid one's self (personal gain). With this in mind, I believe that the planets should be affected accordingly.
In war time, PPTs will affect the planet after 12 hours; this will allow planets to be taken with 'less' retaliation, which will allow wars to actually have difficulties. Explanation: Your fleets are on high alert due to the ongoing war, and thus manage to manoeuvre the planet into your 'protected' space earlier; though at what cost(meaning the war itself)? Naturally, to stop people from just hitting 'Declare war' and then taking the planet, the war would have had to have been declared at least 24 hours prior for this to take effect (your fleets need time to prepare and analyse the best route; any planet attack before then will use the old route).
Out of war time, PPTs do not affect the planet until it is fully in your system (aka, 24 hours after taking the planet back). This will allow people who can only log on once a day to regain the planet rather than being hopeless. Explanation: Your preparations were kept to a minimum in order to avoid alerting your enemy to the threat; you have the advantage to surprise!
Issue 2: Possible RL issues -
This is always an issue; it's why we have vacation mode (though the 1 day thing makes emergencies hard, that's for another thread). As planets 'vac' with the account, the only issue left is emergencies. This really isn't an issue out of wartime, and even then, only really for duals. Beacons are a perfect way to recover your planet later, but due compared to the problems they cause, it's simply not a good enough reason.
I suggest a 1 week 'planet evacuation'; during which the planet is completely evacuated. As the people on the planet are what makes it do what it does (sorry, bad sentence but that was the best way I could think of to explain it), the enemy simply passes over it as a 'useless rock'. This mode encompasses all your planets (conquered planets must be fully in system before they benefit [eg. 24 hours after conquest]); making them useless to both you and the enemy for a full week of active play (eg, if you vac after three days, when you come back your planets are useless for four more days).
Issue 3-5: The actual beacon changes -
(NOTE: I'm dealing with these together because I hope to cover them all in this one change, and because they all overlap. Issues are NOT dealt with in order, rather as a single whole.)
'Hiding' a planet is a useful tactic; both in wartime and without. In war one can permanently deprive an enemy of a useful resource. Outside war, a group of people can work together to remove a single, specific planet from a powerful target without fear of it being found and retaken: though at a cost of the person who took it being blamed. The tactic essentially consists of taking a planet from someone, then having a friend take it from you after the 24 hour period in order to 'hide' where it finally is. A tactic that beacons do not combat, they annihilate.
When beacons were introduced, I don't believe Jason thought they would be as easy to obtain as they are today; however even if they weren't, I still feel they're over powered. The solution then, cannot be to simple increase their price; as eventually the new price will be easy to obtain and the whole problem with reappear. Increasing prices would also lead to it being substantially harder for the newer players to use a beacon than the older players, which must be avoided.
The possible solutions are numerous, though there are two that I feel worth a mention, and one that I believe will come up but isn't even worth thinking of.
The bad solution: Introduce 'anti-beacons', or beacon hunters or what have you. Simply put: be able to pay (in units or naq) to remove the old beacons. This is just as bad and poorly thought out as the beacons themselves: it not only promotes mindless button clicking, but eliminates any alternative.
Possible solution 1: A beacon power-source. While in your realms, you know where the beacon is and automatically keep it charged. When the planet leaves, however, the beacon must be hidden; and lets face it, what enemy will charge a beacon for you anyway? The instant a planet is taken, the beacon timer starts counting down, after 3 days to a week (would have to be tested; I'm leaning towards a week personally) it goes flat and the beacon is no longer operational. All beacons are on 'battery', not just one! You can't get around this by simply putting a thousand beacons on a planet and allowing it to be constantly running (well, for the next three years anyway); once again, that would promote mindless spending, not tactics.
Possible solution 2: Limit the number of beacons that can be placed on a planet(Too many beacons on a planet interfere with other communication devices); probably to four or five. This limits the amount of times a person can 'find' a planet; meaning that you have to 'out-manoeuvre' them so many times. It also adds uncertainty because how would you know if a beacon had been used? They're hidden!
While personally I prefer the first solution (timers), I feel the second one is definitely worth mention, and each has their own flaws and strengths. Both solutions are better than the current system, allow people to recover planets to a degree, and to 'hide' a planet. The other two changes (PPT timing and planet evac's) were added in here because beacons directly affect both issues, though truly they deserve their own topic.
Conclusion
Oh, wow. I didn't think that would take so much explaining! I hate seeing poorly thought out/worded suggestions; I think that if you're not willing to put at least a half hour's thought into it yourself then the admin has no reason to either, though I may have gone overboard. All my suggestions are based on what I know; there may be errors in it, if so please say something! This suggestion is made as someone who doesn't have a dual; and who isn't in any of the current 'wars' (if you'd call them that, once again though, another topic). That being said, I have tried to look at it from the perspective of the people with the planets as well as the people without; however I still feel that planets are too defensible even without beacons all together. I know why beacons were put in, this is an easy way for multi's to make Naq; however the value of planets has dropped significantly since then, the time and effort this would take is better spent on farming if you're just after Naq (and tbh, I feel that multi's are the admins job; the players shouldn't have to suffer because of it). Taking all that into account, I've tried to come up with the best solutions I could, and if you still can't defend your planet well then it's new owners are clearly more worthy of it. All that being said, I welcome and encourage suggestions, alterations and criticism - as long as you provide reason!
Thanks for reading! If you didn't, please don't ask me to shorten it; if you don't care enough about the subject to read that then I don't care enough about your opinion to alter it - no offence.
Hey folks! We all know what planets are (I hope); and anyone who's so much as looked at them knows they have beacons. These beacons are useful little buggers, they allow you to find your planet no matter where it is, no matter who has it, no matter what phase it's in (MPDSD / no MPDSD). They come for the small price of a bil each, and any dual planet you come across is guaranteed to have about a hundred of these little buggers on them.
The problem
They cost a bil each, and (that I know of) have no limit. What does this mean? Essentially, that there is no way to steal a planet that's worth anything stealthily. Yes, you can phase (merlins) the planet regardless; but, in my opinion, that shouldn't be the only way to keep a planet that's worth taking. Simply: If the planet is worth taking the effort to 'stealthily' steal it, then it's going to be loaded up with beacons.
Why do I think that this is a bad thing? Well, a lot of people would argue it isn't, but I ask you all just to think about planets for a minute. After they're taken, you have 12 hours in which to take the planet back with no resistance other than planetary defences. On top of this, it's easy to keep a planet MPDSD'd 24/7 regardless. So to 'steal' a planet, you already need to get above and beyond lucky, then you need to hide it! Isn't it hard enough without beacons?
A solution
This needs to take several things into consideration (in my opinion):
- Ease of retaking a planet soon after it's been taken.
- Possible RL issues.
- Newer and older players.
- Ability to 'hide' a planet.
- BALANCE!
To those ends, the solution I'm proposing has to be semi-complex; but as planets play such a large roll in the game these days, I feel they're worth the time and effort.
Issue 1: Retaking the planet -
At present PPT will affect the planet 12 hours after it's been taken; I believe this is too 'general' of a solution to truly deal with the situation. The problem is, there are two reasons to take a planet: 1) to deprive an enemy (war), 2) to aid one's self (personal gain). With this in mind, I believe that the planets should be affected accordingly.
In war time, PPTs will affect the planet after 12 hours; this will allow planets to be taken with 'less' retaliation, which will allow wars to actually have difficulties. Explanation: Your fleets are on high alert due to the ongoing war, and thus manage to manoeuvre the planet into your 'protected' space earlier; though at what cost(meaning the war itself)? Naturally, to stop people from just hitting 'Declare war' and then taking the planet, the war would have had to have been declared at least 24 hours prior for this to take effect (your fleets need time to prepare and analyse the best route; any planet attack before then will use the old route).
Out of war time, PPTs do not affect the planet until it is fully in your system (aka, 24 hours after taking the planet back). This will allow people who can only log on once a day to regain the planet rather than being hopeless. Explanation: Your preparations were kept to a minimum in order to avoid alerting your enemy to the threat; you have the advantage to surprise!
Issue 2: Possible RL issues -
This is always an issue; it's why we have vacation mode (though the 1 day thing makes emergencies hard, that's for another thread). As planets 'vac' with the account, the only issue left is emergencies. This really isn't an issue out of wartime, and even then, only really for duals. Beacons are a perfect way to recover your planet later, but due compared to the problems they cause, it's simply not a good enough reason.
I suggest a 1 week 'planet evacuation'; during which the planet is completely evacuated. As the people on the planet are what makes it do what it does (sorry, bad sentence but that was the best way I could think of to explain it), the enemy simply passes over it as a 'useless rock'. This mode encompasses all your planets (conquered planets must be fully in system before they benefit [eg. 24 hours after conquest]); making them useless to both you and the enemy for a full week of active play (eg, if you vac after three days, when you come back your planets are useless for four more days).
Issue 3-5: The actual beacon changes -
(NOTE: I'm dealing with these together because I hope to cover them all in this one change, and because they all overlap. Issues are NOT dealt with in order, rather as a single whole.)
'Hiding' a planet is a useful tactic; both in wartime and without. In war one can permanently deprive an enemy of a useful resource. Outside war, a group of people can work together to remove a single, specific planet from a powerful target without fear of it being found and retaken: though at a cost of the person who took it being blamed. The tactic essentially consists of taking a planet from someone, then having a friend take it from you after the 24 hour period in order to 'hide' where it finally is. A tactic that beacons do not combat, they annihilate.
When beacons were introduced, I don't believe Jason thought they would be as easy to obtain as they are today; however even if they weren't, I still feel they're over powered. The solution then, cannot be to simple increase their price; as eventually the new price will be easy to obtain and the whole problem with reappear. Increasing prices would also lead to it being substantially harder for the newer players to use a beacon than the older players, which must be avoided.
The possible solutions are numerous, though there are two that I feel worth a mention, and one that I believe will come up but isn't even worth thinking of.
The bad solution: Introduce 'anti-beacons', or beacon hunters or what have you. Simply put: be able to pay (in units or naq) to remove the old beacons. This is just as bad and poorly thought out as the beacons themselves: it not only promotes mindless button clicking, but eliminates any alternative.
Possible solution 1: A beacon power-source. While in your realms, you know where the beacon is and automatically keep it charged. When the planet leaves, however, the beacon must be hidden; and lets face it, what enemy will charge a beacon for you anyway? The instant a planet is taken, the beacon timer starts counting down, after 3 days to a week (would have to be tested; I'm leaning towards a week personally) it goes flat and the beacon is no longer operational. All beacons are on 'battery', not just one! You can't get around this by simply putting a thousand beacons on a planet and allowing it to be constantly running (well, for the next three years anyway); once again, that would promote mindless spending, not tactics.
Possible solution 2: Limit the number of beacons that can be placed on a planet(Too many beacons on a planet interfere with other communication devices); probably to four or five. This limits the amount of times a person can 'find' a planet; meaning that you have to 'out-manoeuvre' them so many times. It also adds uncertainty because how would you know if a beacon had been used? They're hidden!
While personally I prefer the first solution (timers), I feel the second one is definitely worth mention, and each has their own flaws and strengths. Both solutions are better than the current system, allow people to recover planets to a degree, and to 'hide' a planet. The other two changes (PPT timing and planet evac's) were added in here because beacons directly affect both issues, though truly they deserve their own topic.
Conclusion
Oh, wow. I didn't think that would take so much explaining! I hate seeing poorly thought out/worded suggestions; I think that if you're not willing to put at least a half hour's thought into it yourself then the admin has no reason to either, though I may have gone overboard. All my suggestions are based on what I know; there may be errors in it, if so please say something! This suggestion is made as someone who doesn't have a dual; and who isn't in any of the current 'wars' (if you'd call them that, once again though, another topic). That being said, I have tried to look at it from the perspective of the people with the planets as well as the people without; however I still feel that planets are too defensible even without beacons all together. I know why beacons were put in, this is an easy way for multi's to make Naq; however the value of planets has dropped significantly since then, the time and effort this would take is better spent on farming if you're just after Naq (and tbh, I feel that multi's are the admins job; the players shouldn't have to suffer because of it). Taking all that into account, I've tried to come up with the best solutions I could, and if you still can't defend your planet well then it's new owners are clearly more worthy of it. All that being said, I welcome and encourage suggestions, alterations and criticism - as long as you provide reason!
Thanks for reading! If you didn't, please don't ask me to shorten it; if you don't care enough about the subject to read that then I don't care enough about your opinion to alter it - no offence.
). Guess it does depend on the planet's worth. But imo all the very good planets are extremely well protected trough other means then just their pure defense or them being merlined.