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churches in one form or another have been around for a long time
but do we actually need them?? are they really for the 'betterment' of society as a whole (or in part)?
note: for this I will narrow it to the Christian churches, as this is the most prevalent form of belief in our world, and the one I am most educated in.

consider:
1 - The Church (as in the Vatican) started many hundreds of years ago. since that time they have disputed many scientific 'beliefs' (such as a round earth, heliocentricity [that the earth revolves around the sun], Newtonian physics, and many others; which we now know (as far as we possibly can) to be true.

2 - The churches of the middle ages in Europe encouraged "witch-burning". not only is the idea of witches ridiculous to society today, but the murder (and this is what it was) of human beings is one of our most repugnant crimes.

3 - again, throughout the middle ages, the church demanded taxes from the peasants and the nobility. this was often explained as "forgiveness for penance" or to allow a speedy passage to heaven.
not only this but the church was reputed to hold 1/3 of all the land in Europe!!!!
The church was supposed to have Spartan qualities, but there it was with more land than any king, and a larger income than the whole of England!

4 - Many people now don't even go to a Church, even though they are self-confessed Christians. They believe that they are still able to go to heaven when they die, and so have no need for the church. the very reason that the bible was translated to English was so that the common people no longer needed to rely on the church to learn about God.


[spoiler]For the record, I am not a Christian, I am an Atheist[/spoiler]

Yes, we do need Churches. Some of us still go to them.

1. It wasn't only the Churches that disagreed with many scientific principles we now take for granted. Back in the "Flat Earth Days" nobody could be sure of these 'new' and at the time impossible to prove theories. We now believe thopse things because they are proven to be true.

2. Once again, it was not only Churches burning witches at the stake.

3. If the Church owned the land, then they had a right to charge for it. The fact that they no longer own so much land can be seen as symbol of Churches' generosity. I never recalled the Catholic Church charging "taxes". But the idea of buying forgiveness is what is known as an indulgence. The money from the 'sin' would be used for charitable purposes.

4. Even though the Bible is now in a million languages, I guarantee many Christians still rely on the Church for understanding of doctrines and everyday lifestyle issues. Those who do not go to Church can still be saved if they lead a righteous, selfless life; and dedicate time to thank, revere and worship the God of their particular faith.

We need churches for the same reason we need schools.

[spoiler]To brainwash people.

Both institutions cater to the needs of the growing number of people who need to be told what to believe.[/spoiler]

Churches and Religion have no greater faults than that of a lot of aspects of modern science. Religion was dogmatic and socially dominating, it dictated beliefs and controlled. Science is no different, the perspectives of right and wrong, fact and fiction may have changed to be completely reliable on the material thus favouring science but that does not make Religion redundant.

Religion gives billions of humans meaning in their lives, it teaches discipline and good will, something that Science does not. Churches are centres and bastions of this, they're forums for marriage and community and masterful pieces of architecture in a lot of instances.

They should stay.

We need the Church to exist because we need to preserve the right of the Church to exist. Regardless of how thoughtless or ridiculous you may believe it to be, one of the most fundamental aspects of a working democracy should be people's right to practice organized religion.

To remove Churches from the equation would open us up to a flurry of other civil rights abuses. By what criteria do choose what to eliminate for the 'betterment' of society?

Religion, go for it, it`s a sheeps life to do what it pleases.

The institution of church doesnt bother me that much either provided it knows its place (which it often doesnt).




But as far as church buildings go... way too many. Atleast in my country. History and all that. And so every village has itsown church, you cant drive 10km without bumping into one or two, half of them without permanent priests cos they`re simply too few.

Its a pain to maintain and a lot of the costs falls on the state for "preserving cultural heritage".

Fine fine, but for christ sake, the curch as such doesnt pay taxes & they have substantial forest property they got from dying grannies over the centuries. Any yet its the taxpeyers money being poured into renovations of these largly disused buildings while the organization that claims ownership over them is spending its money runing business`s like one of our largest telecomunications company. If they cant maintan them then dont, or sell your other assets so you`ll be able to like us normal people do.

Interesting point.

It's interesting how many of the churches belong to the Vatican, but they are not maintained at the owner's expense.

If you are purely talking about the actual buildings and not the religions that they are the frontline services of then some of them should be removed.

Some of the churches in the UK currently are in such a bad state & the cost of repairing them somewhat high, leaving them in a bad state and allowing some to get worse.

Just because its a church doesnt mean it should be allowed to be an eyesore or a danger to those that might use it.

The religions however shouldnt be banned or removed from society, as while I personally find them repulsive & many other things that I wont mention here, but to some people they provide a great comfort too & should be allowed to provide such a comfort if those people get any benefit from their beliefs.

@kit-fox
i wasnt referring to churches as buildings, or a religion, merely the church as an organisation.
i agree with your points

Brdavs' point about the owner's of churches paying for their costs is one of the problems that governments face.
though there are not so many very old churches here in Australia, there are many many new ones. There is one not 30km from where i live that looks like its a multi-million dollar house.

@semper
religion and science are two completely different things

1 - religion pretty much remains unchanged in 2000 years
2 - science changed this year with the LHC in Sweden/France
3 - religion offers faith and belief
4 - science attempts to explain the world around us. how it works

personally, i dont believe that there is a reason for life, nor that there need to be one, but i acknowledge that others do
discipline and goodwill are also taught by parents, and schools
i can count the amount of times that i have ever been in a church on one hand, but i still can say that im a 'good person'. merely going into a church isnt what teaches good will, rather, that attending a church provides a reason to be good. you be good in this life, and you get to live forever in the next, which seems a bit selfish to me.
and marriage should be allowed to be performed anywhere.
and yes, churches are sometimes wonderfully created, all the more reason to not have them. the church is supposed to be a humble church, but here it is building too many ridiculously extravagant structures. yes they are sometimes amazing to look at, but this is the very thing the church wasnt supposed to be.

@the doctor
this is about the church, not anybody else
and just because someone else has done something, it doesnt excuse the original party. for example, if i were to kill a man, by your reasoning, i dont get convicted if i say. "now hang on a minute. that man over there killed someone, and they didnt get convicted, so i dont either" this seems pretty poor reasoning to me
and no the church didnt charge taxes, they 'requested' donations from a people who believed that it was their only way to salvation. and the majority of the money that was given to the church was spent building more churches, or was spent by corrupt priests for gluttonous purposes
and the church sometimes did own the land, so they did charge for it, but then they didnt have to pay any of the other taxes, they forced the people who lived on the land to pay those taxes as well

Baxter a few points

not that it matters but LHC in Sweden/France I think you meant Switzerland/France

about the churches (buildings). The Catholic church builds beautiful churches to Glorify God. The Protestant church usually have simpler building becasue they don't believe they need to showcase God visually.

@Agapooka, although true to an extent. Those with sufficient intelligence will be independant enough to think for themselves and not study the exam marks schemes but develop their education themselves, question things etc. But I agree that the schooling system is set up to benefit society as a whole and does not promote individuality in terms of creativity.

Give you a tip. You are defining "church" wrong

yea, Church is meant as the priests, bishops etc who are, in a way, an organisation that spread, teach about the religion.

Church is defined as

From Strong's Greek, 1577. "ekklesia, ek-klay-see'-ah; from a comp. of G1537 and a der. of G2564; a calling out, i.e. (concr.) a popular meeting, espec. a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--assembly, church."

Therefore the Christian Church is a group of people that assembles for a religious meeting/fellowship. The Bible never defines the Christian Church as a denomination.


Therefore, churches always exist as so long Christians do.

Pointless debate.

I don't need no church/building to find god.

and I cant remember the exact bibical quote.. but its something about when 3 or more ppl are gathered in god name he is there.. so no need for a overpriced building full of craven images.

*expects to get a sermon from Sandy*

as what i said before, we dont need the building....


read before you post dear