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creationists and intelligent design soppurters tend to use this argument.
it goes somthing like this: say you find a clock/watch in the woods. how did it get there? could it have formed by itself?
to which, you will reply: of course not, how can it?
which will be taken up by the creationist: then how can this world of ours, so much more elaborate than a clock could have been formed by itself? and specificly, how could the human being, the crown of creations, with it so many sophisticated attributes could have formed if it was not for a creator.

to which i now reply: and this creator, can you understand him?
which will prompt your everyday creationist to respond: of course not! he is god allmighty, unfathomable, being so much more complex than us.
which will allow for the punchline: than, how could the creator could have formed without a "higher" creator?

please discuss.

Because God is so complex and we're so limited we cannot understand the idea that he was not created. We cannot bring ourselves to imagine anything in that sort.

The clock in the woods argument is erroneous, in that it uses an obviously artificial construct.
If we would not recognise the clock as something that cannot exist 'in nature', we would just assume it is another thing in the woods, like the trees.

Same thing with Earth. We can see it's a rather natural thing. Sure, it must have had a beginning, but the explanation astronomy gives is satisfactory. I don't need a creator to fill in the blanks.



Your argument is the 'marbles' argument, as illustrated at the end of the Men in Black movie. You should check that out, it also shows increasing layers. Quite interesting.

The~Joker wrote:Because God is so complex and we're so limited we cannot understand the idea that he was not created. We cannot bring ourselves to imagine anything in that sort.

i don't see your point.

EDIT:

julliete wrote:Your argument is the 'marbles' argument, as illustrated at the end of the Men in Black movie. You should check that out, it also shows increasing layers. Quite interesting.

question is: what good will it do against a well armed missionary?

Juliette wrote:Same thing with Earth. We can see it's a rather natural thing. Sure, it must have had a beginning, but the explanation astronomy gives is satisfactory. I don't need a creator to fill in the blanks.

What caused "big bang" aka the creation of everything?

Sure the thing of earth being created 7500 years ago or whatever is erroneous, but it doesn't mean that God disappeared completly and was proven not to exist.

Now would this God be a very superior entity like the ascended beings in stargate, why not, it's a possibility, that seems more likely than Men in Black final scene.

I might not be "practicing" religion yet, but I am believing God or whatever he is, created this universe. That seems more rational than the boring attempts of explanation of why big bang happened. Just like science is more rational on other hand than earth being created 7500 years ago.

I didn't have religious education, that's by my own conclusions, so one cannot say I was influenced by this opinion about creation.

Men in Black is a sci-fi humoristic movie. I remember of that scene with the alien playing with the different universes balls...it's still a movie.