Your New Ombudsman Team!!

[Mordack]

In case any of you were unaware, people are idiots. It's a fact. Every election process in the history of humankind has (a) had an element of a popularity contest to it and (b) had stupid and uninformed people voting for the wrong reasons. You can no more change that than you can human nature. Although I'd like to have seen Jack and Caprila win, I don't think the results should be contested because there is no definitive way of policing such things. Congrats again to Kojak and Rocky.

[Caprila]

I seem to remember certain 'encouragements' from TJP & Fuall during the voting for Mantheren & Zeek for ombudsman. Everyone knew it, everyone said it, but I do not recall votes, or the result, being disallowed because of it. I think if you look at just about any election, 'of the year' nominations.. you will find alliance voting. It might put those of us without an ingame account, myself, Jack & Clarkey? I think, at a disadvantage votes wise, but it isn't anything we didn't know going in. It's just how things are, fair or not.

However, despite the mess that happened right after Mantheren & Zeek were instated, they did turn out to be a great Oms team. I'm hoping we'll be able to look back and say the same thing about this team, but for now we'll just have to wait and see. Arguing over the validity of the result, or going back over old arguments, isn't going to change anything.

It is a shame so few people voted, but I don't believe it's that different from previous years.

[RoKeT]

I seem to remember certain 'encouragements' from TJP & Fuall during the voting for Mantheren & Zeek for ombudsman. Everyone knew it, everyone said it, but I do not recall votes, or the result, being disallowed because of it. I think if you look at just about any election, 'of the year' nominations.. you will find alliance voting. It might put those of us without an ingame account, myself, Jack & Clarkey? I think, at a disadvantage votes wise, but it isn't anything we didn't know going in. It's just how things are, fair or not.

However, despite the mess that happened right after Mantheren & Zeek were instated, they did turn out to be a great Oms team. I'm hoping we'll be able to look back and say the same thing about this team, but for now we'll just have to wait and see. Arguing over the validity of the result, or going back over old arguments, isn't going to change anything.

It is a shame so few people voted, but I don't believe it's that different from previous years.

Are you still staying

[Zeratul]

If we recall correctly, there essentially were no other candidates in that election, caprila...

manetheren / zeekomkommer came from the opposite sides in that conflict. That balanced away their ingame involvement...

but still, its better if ingame has nothing to do with such office... The fact is, far too few voted in the election in our opinion... but we cant do anything about that...

[Rocky]

I'll agree with those who suggest we move on...

Congratulations to the winners, the voters, and the Forum users.

May I politely suggest we lock this thread before we are in need of Rocky and Kojak's services?


Thanks,

Dublin Warrior

thankyou Dubby, i agree with you, this thread was actually intended as a introductory thread, not a debating thread.
Ive let the discussions go for a bit though because i don't see anywhere else where it would be suitable to discuss it.

i also agree that too few voted in the election, i expected a lot more, and lastly no one told TL members to vote for us, there was only a thread in the TL forums which directed people to the Ombudsman elections section, to let people know about the elections, especially those members who don't always visit the main forums. Nowhere did Robe or R8 give an order "vote for Rocky" or anything like that

I think we can keep this open for another 24hours, then it will have hopefully served it's purpose.

[Empy]

We just decided as a whole that we'd support our alliance mate. So what?

That from an alliance who harps on about bias in the Forum Staff based on alliance affiliation is rather hypocritical. That's so what.

Like Mordack said it's a sad truth that elections are like this (see every previous post) but it's just a fact that they are. It's also a fact that the elections are over and Kojack is the new Ombudsman with Rocky as Understudy. So I wish them good luck, and hope they do their best.

[renegadze]

We just decided as a whole that we'd support our alliance mate. So what?

That from an alliance who harps on about bias in the Forum Staff based on alliance affiliation is rather hypocritical. That's so what.

Like Mordack said it's a sad truth that elections are like this (see every previous post) but it's just a fact that they are. It's also a fact that the elections are over and Kojack is the new Ombudsman with Rocky as Understudy. So I wish them good luck, and hope they do their best.

That is kinda the point. No one told any TL members to vote for Rocky, infact there was another TL member up for nomination too. But the fact we are fed up with poor decisions meant a lot of us didn't want the same people back in office that were so unhelpful last time round.

To be totally honest with you, a number of us (but no means all) feel this position is completely pointless due to the lack of power. I voted for a friend who I believe to be both respectful and approachable....if he was to leave TL at any point my opinion would not change

[Robe]

I think someone is a bit sore they didn't win.

I'm not sore at all. I never expected to win. It's just a shame it was a tactical vote rather than who people think can do the best job.

I caan say from DDE all who voted did so according to who they thought would do the best job. Nothing tactical about that

No one n DDE or TL told anyone how to vote.

Nice post Caprila and good luck to the new Ombudsman Team of Kojak and Rocky.

[Clarkey]

To be totally honest with you, a number of us (but no means all) feel this position is completely pointless due to the lack of power.

Instead of making such a bland comment answer this, what power is lacking? Many of you said the position holds a lack of power? What do you want?

[BenjaminMS]

The power it originally was meant to be by both Admin Jason and Robe: not reporting to the admins, but being able to overturn without needing to ask the admins. Of course, in that case the middle-man issue becomes more important (in other words, the conflict must really be unresolvable by any other means), but that would be logical in itself.
However, with the Oms-position being more and more watered down and depending on the admins, it's a thankless job in general, since you really depend on the admins seeing or wanting to see reason - and in general, if you agree with something the user brought forward but the admins don't - who's going to get the blame? Yes, you in general - not the admins.

[deni]

The power it originally was meant to be by both Admin Jason and Robe: not reporting to the admins, but being able to overturn without needing to ask the admins. Of course, in that case the middle-man issue becomes more important (in other words, the conflict must really be unresolvable by any other means), but that would be logical in itself.
However, with the Oms-position being more and more watered down and depending on the admins, it's a thankless job in general, since you really depend on the admins seeing or wanting to see reason - and in general, if you agree with something the user brought forward but the admins don't - who's going to get the blame? Yes, you in general - not the admins.

Interesting statement there. It is not true though as the clarification wheater the ombudsman can overturn the administrator's decisions came from Jason himself.

FYI: The ombudsman position was created before Robe was an admin. I do not remember her being even on the staff at that time.


It is getting tiresome to repeat that one person wanting to have it some way does NOT mean it was meant to be that way.

[Mordack]

It seems to me that one in every ten people who makes a post about anything related the ombudsman has absolutely no clue how the position is supposed to work or what it was intended to achieve. Here is a free online dictionary definition of the word:

1. A man who investigates complaints and mediates fair settlements, especially between aggrieved parties such as consumers or students and an institution or organization.

A lot of you seem to think the Ombudsman exists to 'fight' the administration. That isn't true. If you pay close intention to the above definition, then you'll note its use of the word 'mediates.' The Ombudsman isn't there to take anybody's side. He's there to look at the problem from an outside, perspective and make his own independent judgement.

Honestly, I think this complete lack of understanding has tainted both the position itself and the elections. The false notion that the Ombudsman is there to play Luke Skywalker's X-Wing to the Administration's Death Star has made the position truly thankless. Jack and I agreed with Earendil on a few occasions and were labelled as 'puppets' for doing so. Similarly, one or two moderators seemed to consider every overturned warning to be the equivalent of a punch in the face and evidence that we were 'deliberately playing to popular support.' You can't win.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; people are idiots. If sixty percent of everybody that voted in this election did so for the 'wrong' reasons, then most of the other forty percent who did it for the 'right' reasons were probably ignorant and misinformed. As Winston Churchill famously said, the biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter.

[Jack]

The power it originally was meant to be by both Admin Jason and Robe: not reporting to the admins, but being able to overturn without needing to ask the admins

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I wonder who spoon fed you that line of BS.

[Ashu]

Perhaps its the other way around.
If we are to talk about redundancy in this position its not because it lacks factual power. Its because some people lack the imagination and skills to use it. That's my number 1.
Number 2 would relate to the fact that people yelled bias,etc when a decision was taken that was not in their personal favor.
I say either do something and change it or silence thy selves.

[Jack]

The Oms has all the power he needs. As long as he makes sound judgments and does not allow any bias to clout it, he will not be opposed by the Admins. Like myself.

So basically all Rocky has to do is make the right calls and he'll be home free. Not that hard at all, really. Nay, the hard part is not letting the position drive you bat **Filtered** insane. Goodluck with that, Rocky, yous gonna need it.