GrizzZzzly wrote:I haven't read the whole thread but what about Passive smoking? tobacco and Cannabis affects passive smokers more than the actual smokers themselves. If it was legal to smoke at work, in restaurants, clubs, everywhere your affecting others more than yourself. Stop thinking about your own personal freedoms. Do you think it should be legal to drug other people? pregnant women for example.....
I'll give you a statistic to dwell on, 50% of people who smoke, die from a smoking related death.
I don't think smoking Marijuana has any appreciable passive effect on the people around you. It certainly does not affect the people around you more than yourself. If we're talking about cigarettes though obviously I agree, and that is why (at least in the US, and Minnesota) it's pretty much illegal to smoke in public. There are designated smoking areas, and there is the street, and your own house. Those are the only places you can smoke. It's illegal to smoke in public places.
Actually second hand smoke is worse for both Marijuana and cigarettes.
Spoiler
天龍; Fight a good fight...as I will rise from the ashes..
there's also one other aspect to this topic that most people donet ever bother looking into...well there's 2 aspects actually, the 1st being that the war on drugs (that Nixon started) has to be the biggest joke in this whole sorry saga. the 2nd being that, most of the drug related crime is infact down to the Govt and NOT some phantom drug dealer hiding in Bolivia, Mexico or Cuba somewhere.
and lets not forget the British monarchy dealing drugs to the Chinese which stated 2 wars between the Brits and the Chinese, the 2nd war resulted in the Brits taking Hong Kong. after that war ended the British Monarchy then franchised their drug business to the Sassoon family....they are still reaping the rewards of that drug business.
plus, where do you guys think the intelligence services get their funding for black ops?!
but hey, juts say NO, that works because the war on drugs is such a success!
Infinite Love Is the Only Truth: Everything Else Is Illusion.
Kit-Fox wrote:I should really post again, but second hand smoke, err yeah cause its really dangerous isnt it now
Have you guys any idea how much rubbish you breathe in while waiting at traffic lights, or when sitting inside an internal combustion engined vehicle?? As its a damn sight more than you would breathe in by been within breathing distance of a smoker & its also about a million times worse.
In a confined space yeah it would be way worse with tobacco I would agree.
Spoiler
天龍; Fight a good fight...as I will rise from the ashes..
See if I can reply to some of the points made, I dont want to do a huge lists of quotes so point by point,
1) Issue of self harm. Everything we eat, drink and breath from the moment we are born harms us, there are toxins in pretty much everything. My original point was that some illegal drugs ( like MDMA & Cannabis ) are far less harmful than some legal ones ( like Alcohol and Cigarettes ) hence the hypocrisy of current drug laws, but the same point can be extended to foods that are bad for you, the exhaust gas from cars, the danger posed by pets ( especially dogs ), etc
2) Harm to others. Again compare second hand smoke to pollutants and dangerous animals, your car is not illegal for pumping out toxic gas, your pet dog is not illegal even though many hurt, sometimes kill people. And if someone dont like being in a smokey room they can leave.
3) Addiction. Nicotine is one of the most addictive drugs on the planet, and cigarette manufacturers have deliberately made it more addictive, alcohol also highly addictive, if addiction was the reason for illegal drugs being illegal then these 2 would be illegal as well. As for the drugs I would like to see legalised ( MDMA & Cannabis ) these have NO physical addictiveness, hence the term 'recreational drugs'.
4) Crime. Legalising drugs would cut off a huge source of income to organised crime, and would create a new industry employing many people. This would allow police/court spending to be better used and generate taxes to help the economy, IMO reducing crime. Those who say they commit crime to feed a drug habit are just making excuses and trying to wriggle out of personal responsibility, they could just as easily be committing crimes to pay for legal drugs, or the latest video game, there will always be an element in society willing to commit crimes to get the things they unwilling to work for. In my personal experience I did know some people like this when I was younger, but me and my friends have always worked and paid our way even though we took recreation drugs on the weekend.
5) Education. Much needed in all things. Current problem is credibility, when I was in school the used to teach that people trippin on acid thought they could fly and jumped off buildings, that smoking weed made you paranoid and lost you all your friends, that Ecstacy was likely yo kill you, and all kind of other BS. But since most kids either had tried these drugs themselves, or knew someone who had they already knew it was BS, so we got the 'cry wolf' scenario where the teachers could have been right about some things but know one believed them because of the BS. Basically education needs to be FACTS not policy.
Well I should hope you don't go in to a long-winded post on the "morality of society" because it would be rather pointless. It isn't the role of government to make laws that live our lives for us. You think something is immoral? Well that's fine but someone else might not and you can't have government telling us what our morals should be.In a sense the fact that these drugs are illegal outlines how democracy is bad. The government takes away our personal freedoms, we have a right to do what we want to OUR OWN BODY. That's what it comes to. Smoking a joint is not taking away life, liberty, or property from anyone else.
But it is the role of the government to make laws that keep us safe.
Morality is subjective. However, as morality shapes society, so does a society shape morality. However, when the society becomes A-Moral it is when the society is no better than a fancy named chaotic situation.
Boundaries paradoxically create freedom, and freedom paradoxically creates boundaries. So choose, a freedom created by a 'just and lawful ' society, or boundaries by the freedom which enables fear and chaos to reign.
Oh k, let me tell the emo down the road that it is rightful of him to cut himself. It is his own body. Oh and if he dies, well I am sure it wont effect anyone else.
Oh,k. So if a woman smokes a joint/takes some recreational drugs while pregnant... and the baby dies due to a higher chance of a miscarriage. Not taking a life away at all.
I just want to take the time here to make a public service announcement
Warning:
Sandmans posts are not to be read by anyone at any time for any reason. If you ever feel the need to read one of Sandmans posts; please consult a physician immediately. Since this could be a side effect of more serious condition, such as; Neural Trichotomy, Psychosomatic Conflagulation and/or Brain Termites.
Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 are especially at risk to materials Authored and/or Relayed by Sandman All possible precautions should be taken by you; the reader, to prevent this high risk group from exposure.
If Sandmans posts cause your monitor begin to smoke and/or speak in tongues. Get away immediately. Seek shelter and place head between legs while kissing ass goodbye.
Failure to comply with rules outlined above relieves the proprietor and all employees of this website from any and all liability should injury(mental or otherwise) occur.
I don't write this for my own amusement or for that of others. I write this to keep all you safe, You.... the ones I cherish so deeply..... from the cockles of my heart.
Like a Moma bear defending her cubs; I am there for you.......Until you get old enough; where feeding and protecting you becomes to much of a pain in the ass and I kick you to the curb.
I know Sandman wants to keep you all safe as well... That why i know I have his full support in my attempt to protect you from the danger that lies within every word he writes.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. WHILE ALSO BEING SET FREE!!!
Spoiler
Universe wrote:You don't have a case, as Lord Thriller clearly explained.
MajorLeeHurts wrote:^ stole the car and my Booze and my heart * sobs*
Jack wrote:
Just wanna be more like you, Master Thriller.
Kit-Fox wrote:I shouldnt really post again, but second hand smoke, err yeah cause its really dangerous isnt it now
Have you guys any idea how much rubbish you breathe in while waiting at traffic lights, or when sitting inside an internal combustion engined vehicle?? As its a damn sight more than you would breathe in by been within breathing distance of a smoker & its also about a million times worse.
yes because a bit of CO2 and water is harmful..... Never heard of a catalytic converter?
Spoiler
[TL]Brdavs says:
I reckon his mum gonna get him socks and stuff
time for me to step up
keep the childhood rolling
you know its over when you start getting underwear for christmas
I still tear up when I remember when my childhood ended like that
poof
one year legos
next year "brdavs, you`re 23 dont you think youre a bit old for legos now"
brutal I tell you
Spoiler
Mordack wrote:Personally, I am not a huge fan of life. I am of the general opinion that, from start to finish, it's painful and miserable; and that anybody that tells you differently is either trying to have sex with you or sell or you something.
Similarly, I believe that people in general are inherently flawed. Deep down, we are programmed to hurt one another; either physically or emotionally. People are naturally selfish and greedy; governed more by bestial urges than common sense or ethics. Society is a terrible thing, too. The more supposedly civilized we become, the more immorality and decadence become the main staple of our daily diet.
Before Lost concluded, my main flippant excuse for not killing myself was that I wanted to know how it ended. I will get back to you with a new one when I find it.
Spoiler
EPA BMMJ13 says:
you should go eat
like 30 of them 32 oz steaks Stanley says:
im stuffed right now EPA BMMJ13 says:
store them in your cheeks for later
Kit-Fox wrote:I shouldnt really post again, but second hand smoke, err yeah cause its really dangerous isnt it now
Have you guys any idea how much rubbish you breathe in while waiting at traffic lights, or when sitting inside an internal combustion engined vehicle?? As its a damn sight more than you would breathe in by been within breathing distance of a smoker & its also about a million times worse.
does that make it any better? with smoking i might add, a lot of people are addicted, its a fact, therefore people around them, including possibly their children and relatives will basically "smoke" the stuff themselves, and because they are less used to it will be much more susceptible to it. Thats what makes it dengerous to others, and thats why it was made illegal to smoke in public, as well as harming the person smoking themselves of course(that is the person's own choice and he will have to live with it, its just incredibly unfair for people around you who have to suffer)
Again to my point, what makes smoking any better if you say car emissions are more dangerous? which i doubt because as Grizz said car emissions include CO2 and H20
Your clutching at straws here. Of Course its not 100% efficient but normally over 90% efficient. It's outside in the open too. Which allows the poluted gas to diffuse.
@KMA Avenger, I replied to the post addressed to my post. You can go babble as much as you want but since you didnt address my post, why are you throwing up a fit if I don't respond to you?
Also by the looks of it you have not one shred of proof for any of your wild accusations.
Spoiler
[TL]Brdavs says:
I reckon his mum gonna get him socks and stuff
time for me to step up
keep the childhood rolling
you know its over when you start getting underwear for christmas
I still tear up when I remember when my childhood ended like that
poof
one year legos
next year "brdavs, you`re 23 dont you think youre a bit old for legos now"
brutal I tell you
Spoiler
Mordack wrote:Personally, I am not a huge fan of life. I am of the general opinion that, from start to finish, it's painful and miserable; and that anybody that tells you differently is either trying to have sex with you or sell or you something.
Similarly, I believe that people in general are inherently flawed. Deep down, we are programmed to hurt one another; either physically or emotionally. People are naturally selfish and greedy; governed more by bestial urges than common sense or ethics. Society is a terrible thing, too. The more supposedly civilized we become, the more immorality and decadence become the main staple of our daily diet.
Before Lost concluded, my main flippant excuse for not killing myself was that I wanted to know how it ended. I will get back to you with a new one when I find it.
Spoiler
EPA BMMJ13 says:
you should go eat
like 30 of them 32 oz steaks Stanley says:
im stuffed right now EPA BMMJ13 says:
store them in your cheeks for later
GrizzZzzly wrote:Your clutching at straws here. Of Course its not 100% efficient but normally over 90% efficient. It's outside in the open too. Which allows the poluted gas to diffuse.
Warm-up period Most of the pollution put out by a car occurs during the first five minutes before the catalytic converter has warmed up sufficiently.
[spoiler=and why not., as well.]Although catalytic converters are effective at removing hydrocarbons and other harmful emissions, they do not solve the fundamental problem created by burning a fossil fuel. In addition to water, the main combustion product in exhaust gas leaving the engine — through a catalytic converter or not — is carbon dioxide (CO2).[13] Carbon dioxide produced from fossil fuels is one of the greenhouse gases indicated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to be a "most likely" cause of global warming.[14] Additionally, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has stated catalytic converters are a significant and growing cause of global warming, due to their release of nitrous oxide (N2O), a greenhouse gas over 300 times more potent than carbon dioxid[/spoiler]
True not the person in the car, but all second hand none-the-less.
Catalytic converters turn Carbon Monoxide into Carbon Dioxide, that is their purpose, Carbon Monoxide is a poisonous gas that can be formed as a biproduct of the real reaction that only really is mean to produce carbon dioxide.
IE carbon monoxide is only produced in very small amounts in the first place, getting rid of over 90% of this little bit, and there is practically nothing left, and it is totally harmless.
Even though Carbon Dioxide contributes to the Greenhouse effect, it does not harm someone directly like smoking would, or even Carbon Monoxide would.
Kit-Fox wrote:Nicely ignoring all the additives put into fuels that when burnt give off some really nasty stuff, oh and oil as well, you do know that small portions of oil (which also contains its own additives) are burnt off by an internal combustion engine in normal operation and all that comes out of the exhaust too.
Oh and not every vehicle on the road has a cat converter, some people remove them for various reasons (putting them back in for stuff like MOTs) oh and yeah cat converters break down in their operation. How long ago was it you got yours checked?? Was it borderline ok? Did you get it changed? If not then its probably not doing the 90% you quote there.
Face it, theres a damn sight worse that you have no choice but to be exposed to than drugs and associated smoke/fumes etc, yet you dont see any of that stuff made illegal.
Hmmm, one might think its almost arbitrary
as i said before i guess all that lovely information there makes smoking so much better. Concentrate on smoking or illegal drugs, are they necessary?? like for example how transport is necessary for us? Also Unless you live in Tokyo in the middle of the City and walk 2hours a day through traffic lights to work to and fro i doubt that traffic is more dangerous than smoking.
