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You guys all know what i think Greece should do so i won't be giving that same opinion here...rather, i want to see you guys think.

Considering there's almost always a third solution, I would say Greece remains, BUT we consider more solutions than just the austerity, which isn't sufficient and will not provide growth.
I heard about this plan to do like what Germany did to Eastern Germany when they reunited, which would be there European nation buy Greek companies and try to get them back in their feet. Boost the private sector would mean a pause into wages' reducing. But I'm totally aware that a growth plan would probably favor firms that aren't really linked to Greece, and it wouldn't benefit Greece as much as it could have (it's well known that Keynesian plans barely work). But...if some European companies could relocate some of their factories to Greece (instead of outside-Europe), while not lowering current Greek wages (they aren't so high anyway, so the excuse that the working-cost would be unprofitable for the firms seem to be a bad excuse to me), it would be a great thing. Would lower the joblessness by the way..Now, to find reasons to persuade the some of the companies this is a good idea.

Maybe it's time for all of us to go to Greece and help the tourism sector (no, really...I am serious) by using Greek plane companies to go there, eat greek, dress greek, and come back with pockets full of Greece goods bought in Greece? I know it sounds silly...but well.

Aside from the economic and monetary constraints of the EU, there's not much Greece can (that i can see...correct me if i'm wrong here) do to get rid of the debt and become a self sufficient and productive member of the EU. the problem Greece has it's been told to cut all public sector wages.
I was listening to 1 nurse who stated she is on strike because 2/3rds of her wages go on rent and now the Govt wants to cut her wages by another 40% just to get another 8 or 10 (cant remember what the total of the next instalment is) billion which wont last more than a few months at best. by which time Greece will have to get the next round of cuts to get further instalments...any way you look at it, that's economic suicide

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Aside from the economic and monetary constraints of the EU, there's not much Greece can (that i can see...correct me if i'm wrong here) do to get rid of the debt and become a self sufficient and productive member of the EU. the problem Greece has it's been told to cut all public sector wages.
I was listening to 1 nurse who stated she is on strike because 2/3rds of her wages go on rent and now the Govt wants to cut her wages by another 40% just to get another 8 or 10 (cant remember what the total of the next instalment is) billion which wont last more than a few months at best. by which time Greece will have to get the next round of cuts to get further instalments...any way you look at it, that's economic suicide

That's why I said what I said. Problem with it is big though...how to convince the firms to go to Greece and use it as factory without lowering Greek wages and working conditions. That would solve problem of joblessness without being a problem for Greek workers.
I'm sure something could be worked out to prevent unfair competition (cheaper costs from goods coming from outside of Europe than those in Eastern Europe and in my idea in Greece is a reality) would be to tax a bit imports coming from outside of Europe.
Yes, even though I support Euro pretty much, I admit I'm tempted about this idea about Europe shortsized protectionism.
Not to mention I'm sure Greeks would produce better goods in factories than the products coming from far away...

greece should have called forfait since they knew they could not pay the debts like Argentina did years ago, Eu would have taken the lead of the gov until all debts were paid off.

The Greek people know what they want, they want out and I say let them go.

This will be bad for the EU and UK because writing off all that bad debt will remove the fake bottom line in the banks balance sheets and will no doubt need another bailout.

This will also be bad for Greece's credit rating, they will only get future loans at massive interest rates and expensive insurance on repayments.

But the fact is Greece could never achieve the growth needed to repay these debts, unless the debts are written off the Greeks will be slogging their guts out paying massive taxes with minimal public services for decades to come, and right now the Greek people would be better off leaving.

I have no sentiment for the people who gave these loans to Greece, in fact those people should be sacked for incompetence, as should anyone lending money to people who cant afford to repay it at greedy interest rates......... in the UK we call individuals who do this LOAN SHARKS, when banks do it we give fancy financial package names to hide what it really is.





Also this talk of growth always amuses me, the kind of growth we are told we all need is unsustainable, thats why we keep going through cycles of boom & bust every decade or so, and with every cycle of boom & bust we see more money held by the minority of richest individuals & companies, and larger debts held by the average family.

Growth is BAD, stability is whats needed, and if stability for Greece means a clean slate I say they should do whats best for them.

I see on the news today that Greece will have a referendum on if they should accept the latest EU bailout package, further austerity measures and the decades of debt repayment they face. First indications are that they will vote against it and what...........

Default ? Leave the EU ? Are they bluffing to get a better deal ? Are Greek politicians just covering they asses ? ( they cant be blamed if the people vote for/against )

Will the historical origin of modern democracy RETURN to democracy ?

This was a very silly proposal.
It's very likely to be a political suicide by Papandreou, like this the result won't be his call, and neither would the downfall if the "no" wins.
However, it would have been his call to have decided that..Maybe he wants to be the hero of a tragedy à la grecque.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15533940

How surprising..

"By definition, resistance to the bailout package... would imply a preference to find another route and the only other viable route would be an exit" from the euro, said Padhraic Garvey, an analyst at ING.

There is also concern that the referendum would be unlikely to take place before January, which would create months of uncertainty for the markets.

"We cannot wait until 15 January," said Konstantinos Michalos, president of the Athens Chamber of Commerce.

"Personally, I do not think we will ever get there."

A senior member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition in Germany said he had been irritated by the referendum announcement.

"The prime minister had [agreed] to a rescue package that benefited his country," Rainer Bruederle told Deutschlandfunk radio.

"Other countries are making considerable sacrifices for decades of mismanagement and poor leadership in Greece."

He added that the only thing to do now would be to prepare for the Greek state to be insolvent and try to limit the damage to Europe's banking system.

On the markets, shares in banks saw the biggest falls, with Credit Agricole down 8.6%, Societe Generale falling 10.4%, BNP Paribas down 8.6% and Barclays 7.7% lower.

Papandreou is politically dead already, Jim. he will be lucky if the Greeks don't lynch him!

[KMA]Avenger wrote:Papandreou is politically dead already, Jim. he will be lucky if the Greeks don't lynch him!

That would be barbarian and uncivilized methods.

Removed

I want to see there in Greece a Radical Dictator, like Che was..

I want them to stay in UE, cause they WANT. I want to see, all foreign Interest in Greek being bankrupt. I would love to see that their senators say: Greece has 0 Euro to be paid to foreign Countries.



ANd this could be achieve: Mass People out in streets doing the things there.. This is how we should fight against: This new Era of slaves.

HgE wrote:I want to see there in Greece a Radical Dictator, like Che was..

I want them to stay in UE, cause they WANT. I want to see, all foreign Interest in Greek being bankrupt. I would love to see that their senators say: Greece has 0 Euro to be paid to foreign Countries.



ANd this could be achieve: Mass People out in streets doing the things there.. This is how we should fight against: This new Era of slaves.

Hmm you want such kind of leader at their head?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

As I stated, YES.

Who made the $$ not to be real, should Pay.

HgE wrote:I want to see there in Greece a Radical Dictator, like Che was..

I want them to stay in UE, cause they WANT. I want to see, all foreign Interest in Greek being bankrupt. I would love to see that their senators say: Greece has 0 Euro to be paid to foreign Countries.



ANd this could be achieve: Mass People out in streets doing the things there.. This is how we should fight against: This new Era of slaves.

Mass Greece ??? Suppose we could, but TBH they dont have much stats built lol I'd prefer a juicier target like France or Germany, they're in the same alliance arent they