Page 1 of 4

Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:19 am
by ~Phoenix~
Posted because of this thread here:http://talk.gatewa.rs/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=187317

A few years ago UU/miners really was the key to the game

It was the main way of making income. You had to manage your resources carefully because losing a few Uu meant a couple weeks of work gone down the drain.. massing had to be tactical and thought through.

The issue that, I belive, ruined this game is that grwoth was completely stunted by army size caps. when turn income was what mattered the most there was a constant enhancement of every account in the game.. the top account would be achievable by many a few months down the line so no stats would be unreachable.

Then.. the army caps came along. Suddently we all got to a point where farming and raiding brought in much much more income than simply letting the turn tick by. A good thing? Apparantly not. See.. it never got vetter. Suddenly everyone could earn roughly the same weekly income and that was it. It made higher levels harder to reach such as 38 and 39.. this meant that $$ spenders took over the higher sized accounts.

What every problem comes down to, IMO, is limiting army size. As soon as that happened it **Filtered** up the prime mechanic of the game which was to grow.. everyone just started pouring naq into other stats far beyond their actual capacity and soon after farming/raiding took over as the main form of income.. simply because nobody could keep enough UU to live off turn income anymore. You'd basically need to raid tons each day to continue growing and that isn't attractive to anyone starting fresh.

Everyone masses randomly now because they don't need their AS for income they just chuck it away and go farm.. there's little else to upgrade your account with. This game went from something you could casually play to something where you need to play several hours a week or spend a few hudnred $$.

Limiting AS did NOT stop certain palyers getting farrrr far ahead.. I know that was the intention because AS was so important when that idea was rolled out.. it hasn't solved the problem but has damaged an important mechanic for these type of games: progress.

Covert Level
It would cost 3,298,534,883,322,000 Naq to upgrade from 0 Level to 39 Level
3,298,534,883,322,000 = roughly 5.5bilion UU at current market rates.
Stop people getting far ahead?? I don't think so. It may seem that was but its just a fallacy.. the gap is larger than ever.

I am putting forward that AS caps need to be an enourmous amount higher for one simple reason: to make turn income better than farming income.

I am suggesting that the army caps should be 5x larger. WHY?

If your total population size is greater than 2,787,671,285 disease will surely strike your lands.
Above 2,090,753,425 and raiding is no longer possible.
Above 1,393,835,615 and trading/buying units no longer possible.
Pergatory is not accessible above 55,753,425. (the same)

Several problems will be solved:
People will be able to play occassionally and stay competetive instead of having to spend $$$ or farm for hours on end.
there will once again be a gradual increase in levels balancing out the hgue gap thats currently around.
Covrt/AC levels stay just as important.. however others will now be able to move towards level38s and level39s through alliance-efforts.
War will be more exciting as you could a 1billion UU defense.. this cannot be recovered easily because of limited UP and raidable units - the rate of which will not increase. Players will have to be more tactical in their approach.
$$$ spending is reduced now because players account's can produce far more naq than before but only in limited quantities.. might encourage some to buy in-game resources.


I will add soluitions to this post as I remind myself of them.




One thing i can think of.. I know is going to be brought up against this: it will increase teh gap between large and small players. Ive already been "told" this.

I want to leave you with a thought that this is completely a fallacy.
let me paste those figures from before again:

Covert Level
It would cost 3,298,534,883,322,000 Naq to upgrade from 0 Level to 39 Level
3,298,534,883,322,000 = roughly 5.5bilion UU at current market rates

Is 2.5billion army really increasing the gap? I think it does the opposite by moving player income much closer to farming/raiding and cash spending income.

Now.. it may not be extremely obvious that there is a hgue gap, not as much so with large armies, but there definitely is. It is in fact i believe worse because normal hard working players will never, ever be able to reach that kind of level of covert.

I think that what i've put forward gives a lot of evidence that increasing UU caps will in fact close the gap between new and old players... because evreyone will at some point be able to reach the next level in the game instead of just cash spenders.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:21 am
by Juliette
Agreed. :-D

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:25 am
by [BoT] Jason
So then just moving todays problem to tomorrow?

The market will flux and drastically change in the first month with demand for more UU. But after that when the provider$ are back on track we'll be here again

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:31 am
by ~Phoenix~
[BoT] Jason wrote:So then just moving todays problem to tomorrow?

The market will flux and drastically change in the first month with demand for more UU. But after that when the provider$ are back on track we'll be here again


Hello mr fallacy.

No it won't because while everyone is on 10x 5x larger armies..there is not 5x more income from raiding or farming.

Larger pot but same flow going into it. How much can you raid a day? 100mil max? 20days of that at least to get near the maximum armynot counting cost fo rebuying turns etc.

$$ spenders may just to the lead originally but goodr adiers would soon catch then everyone else.

Can they buy huge sums of naq to get their higher coverts??? Sure.. but theyd have to have numerous sellers just constantly selling naq. You could realistically get 10tril/day from turn income.. but still good players could make 30-40tril from raiding/farming. So there is that potential for $$ spending.. however it closes that gap between the casual player and the $$ spender a lot.

If they wanted to buy then their sellers will still need to farm.. as turn income is limited to about 10trilion.. however it's now only a few times more than daily income for the best players instead of 10-20x as it is now.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:35 am
by Loki™
I'd love it. My farms would make 5x more naq (=I'd make 5x more naq)

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:41 am
by ~Phoenix~
Gothmog wrote:I'd love it. My farms would make 5x more naq (=I'd make 5x more naq)



if they built up to the max army which would take hours upon hours of raiding - then yeah :D but generally the ratio of naq you make to the naq you would farm would swing more in favor of your turn income than it is now.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:52 am
by Legendary Apophis
Anyone with $500 in their pocket will have such a big go due to this. Spend $200 in uu (700-800mil uu) spend the rest $300 in naq (1Q naq @ 0.3$/T) inbetween building stats and uu (600T naq for uu, which means 1bil uu at current rates). You then stay on nox+low alert level (especially if you happen to already have level 39) and voilà, you are safe for a few months (except from the others who can afford it, but what you can do to avoid it is join same alliance or set NAPs with other new massive players). You can now go declare war on the rest and be safe for a little while. Probably after that little while considering the quick superiority these people gained added to their big accounts, many will not have patience to keep playing to cath up for both these (uu+levels+MS+UP) and will just leave.

This is a bad idea in my opinion. However, if it was to quicken the plague/raid/trade limit increase by 3-5x speed than it's now, there it would be interesting. It would still take a big while before being to such insane limits.
Otherwise, the massive gap made in a single moment, considering players now aren't as many as before and player base tends to get smaller and smaller, this would only make few very happy (big raiders/big farmers/cash spenders), and that's about it. The ones who have the accounts will just need the uu. While the ones who try to catch up account wise will have to go for uu as well.

Not to mention that you could just raid/buy uu as time goes before such update, send them to friends who would store them, and when update is there, have them all broker it to you. You don't even have to spend big as it comes, just get what you raided/bought back to you before the update. You are even ready for it before it happens...

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:12 am
by Loki™
I agree with pops.
~Phoenix~ wrote:
Gothmog wrote:I'd love it. My farms would make 5x more naq (=I'd make 5x more naq)



if they built up to the max army which would take hours upon hours of raiding - then yeah :D but generally the ratio of naq you make to the naq you would farm would swing more in favor of your turn income than it is now.

Not really 'cause most of my farms are actives.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:15 am
by ~Phoenix~
Legendary Apophis wrote:Anyone with $500 in their pocket will have such a big go due to this. Spend $200 in uu (700-800mil uu) spend the rest $300 in naq (1Q naq @ 0.3$/T) inbetween building stats and uu (600T naq for uu, which means 1bil uu at current rates). You then stay on nox+low alert level (especially if you happen to already have level 39) and voilà, you are safe for a few months (except from the others who can afford it, but what you can do to avoid it is join same alliance or set NAPs with other new massive players). You can now go declare war on the rest and be safe for a little while. Probably after that little while considering the quick superiority these people gained added to their big accounts, many will not have patience to keep playing to cath up for both these (uu+levels+MS+UP) and will just leave.

I dont count uu in this as unlike the others UU gives you naquada that you can use to build the others.

I wanna say this now; if anyone is looking to say 'oh $$ spenders will just do this etc' - well yeah, they will. You want a way to stop them except banning $$ trades? and even then? well there isnt one and in this type of game there isn't ever going to be. They will always be ahead.

Please do not keep shooting down ideas because some idiot might go and spend $2k on their account or we will never get anywhere. Because you know what? they do it anyways and if you think they havent already got nearly unstoppable accounts well then you obviously haven't fought them. it was happening a few years ago.. it's happening now and whatever update you make it will always happen.

"This won't work because xxx will spend $5000." just annoys me. If you want to complain about $$ spending go and make your own thread.
This is discussion on my idea NOT complaining about $$ spenders.

Gothmog wrote:I agree with pops.
~Phoenix~ wrote:
Gothmog wrote:I'd love it. My farms would make 5x more naq (=I'd make 5x more naq)

if they built up to the max army which would take hours upon hours of raiding - then yeah :D but generally the ratio of naq you make to the naq you would farm would swing more in favor of your turn income than it is now.

Not really 'cause most of my farms are actives.


Yeah.. and if they then increased their army by 5x and their defense by 5 times you'd make 5x more naq/profit. But just because theyre active doesnt mean they will do that.
Any $$ they spend on getting a hgue army is up to them but most good players will get to that army limit fairly quickly closing the gap without being $200 out of pocket. if you wanna moan about $$ spending go make another thread instead of just shooting down other ideas.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:28 am
by Legendary Apophis
Considering the income will somehow match the farming, "lucky ones" who were faster than others, will not have to farm anymore to get the naq they needed for fighting or repair/rebuild their army while warring, now their ATs will only be used for massing/ACing, and we might get several "Bloody Sunday" (that event with massing the list of top alliances that weren't part of Grand Alliance, the ancestor of CoPs/FUALL) in a short amount of time for the few ME hunters that might come out of it. Destroy the others, the "potential threats" to the new group's supremacy who sees such update as a chance to take over the game completely.

Players who planned it correctly by stocking loads due to their own farming/raiding or spending, might even get up to the new plague within a short amount of time. Like two days from the update if they already had the amounts ready for it. That would be doable.


Another point, that would probably have a big effect on the accounts market, which isn't really in great shape right now...

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:30 am
by Loki™
But if the point of this update would be to make it easier to catch them wouldn't the example pops gave make this useless?

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:32 am
by ~Phoenix~
Legendary Apophis wrote:Players who planned it correctly by stocking loads due to their own farming/raiding or spending, might even get up to the new plague within a short amount of time. Like two days from the update if they already had the amounts ready for it. That would be doable.


It would but isn't it natural for some to be ahead? the point of this game, aside from war, is to grow. Farming is still there for those looking to catch up.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:34 am
by Loki™
Btw making 12t per day isn't hard even now.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:40 am
by ~Phoenix~
Gothmog wrote:Btw making 12t per day isn't hard even now.

Okay.. so? It still takes a fair while.. and not everyone can do it as if they did there would not be enough targets to go round.

Gothmog wrote:But if the point of this update would be to make it easier to catch them wouldn't the example pops gave make this useless?

Who said it was?? pretty sure I listed several points.. it isn't about it being "easier". Its partly about just making it possible. You will never everr get 39 through farming without seriously needing some game addiction advice.. but this makes it all that more possible. You can get your turn income and that "easy" extra 10tril and be there in a couple of months.

Re: Increase army caps by 5x - 2.7billion AS before plague.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:50 am
by Loki™
~Phoenix~ wrote:You will never everr get 39 through farming without seriously needing some game addiction advice..

That's just cruel :smt089