StarGateWars Forums

Scotland is once again trying to introduce this minimum price on Alcohol

The pro's say

1 ) 1 in 20 Scotish deaths are alcohol related

( I always like harm of alcohol figures as they point out the extreme hypocrisy of drug laws, thousands die every year as direct result of alcohol, 10s of thousands die indirectly, 100s of thousands suffer injuries and vast amounts of money spent on policing after pubs/clubs kick out, cleaning up and repairing damage caused. While at the same time drugs like Ecstasy are not addictive, dont cause violence and only contribute to harm/kill 1 or 2 people a year remain illegal while alcohol is cheap, legal and freely available ).

2) You can currently buy enough alcohol to kill you for under £5

3) Alcohol fueled street violence and disorder costs a fortune


Those against say

1) Price fixing will be illegal due to EU free trade laws

2) That people will just buy cheaper blackmarket ( smuggled/fake ) alcohol instead

3) That more crime will be committed to pay for more expensive alcohol





What does everyone think ???

Personally Im Welsh and Wales has followed Scotland on several 'devolved' issues so if successful in Scotland it is likely to come to Wales next, yet I dont care, I do drink but not much or often, and as an employed person they could double current prices and it wouldnt effect me. BUT I dont think it would work. I think real education and real prospects for the young to get good jobs are the only ways to reduce alcoholism, and it's a problem that will take many years, maybe a generation to solve, this is no taxation or minimum price quick fix, and politicians know it wont work but the like to be seen to do something to placate the media.

Anything approaching prohibition won't work...

just ask my government in the USA.

Both sides, including my friends who use both legal and illegal drugs,
others who work as beat cops and others who work at drug rehab clinics,
will quote their own statistics, anecdotal evidence, and video tapes,

and the truth is probably somewhat more variable, and unpredictable...

and we can again look at the effects of alcohol to back that up,
with people who can "hold their liquor", as well as with caffeine (ab)usage.


Educational and employment and vocational opportunities are certainly part of the mix,

as is enforcement, at least for the dealers...
probably also the crazy people who cause mayhem and adamantly refuse help, even while sober.


Until a much better set of solutions are found,
healthcare costs for users, abusers, and victims will continue to increase dramatically,
as will the security apparatus needs and desires of the state,
as will the desires of the people to either help those poor people, or warehouse the crazy and the evil ones,
depending on one's point of view.

I don't really understand what you mean by minimum prices on Alcohol.
You mean it's about planning to set a minimum price, but my question is, what kind of minimum price?
Something in the cheap side or in the rather costly side?

well, it's the floor, not the ceiling...

and since it's hoped-for effect is to quell the abuse of alcohol,

it's a high floor.


also, people here in the USA have been known
to use such things as mouthwash made with large amounts of antiseptic alcohol,
just to get drunk...

so the pro's need to be careful what they wish for.

Not sure what the minimum price will be, but last time they tried to base it on a 'per unit' cost. Idea is to make alcohol to expensive for street drinking, or rather level it out with pub/club prices because right now people drink at home or in the street because they cant afford to drink in pubs/clubs. It also came about because of supermarkets putting cheap drinks up as loss leaders to get customers in, think I heard one supermarket was charging 30p for a can of unbranded lager, thats less than a soft drink costs !!


Is it legal ? Technically no according to EU trade law.

Will it work ? I dont think so, those that cant afford alcohol will commit more crime to get the money, and if prices rise high enough then they will be undercut by illegal sales IMO.

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Kit-Fox wrote:People will just go back to making their own if it does go through in any effective manner, which I dobut given the size of the drinks industry in the UK.

And despite what Elgov would have you think it isnt illegal to make your own cider/beer/wine/fortified wine or fortified beer

And if your careful & somewhat clever it is still legal to make your own spirits for *your* own consumption, this of course assumes you are up on the latest & greatest legal loopholes.

It doesnt require a lot of effort or a lot of space and thats what will happen

Yep fully legal to make your own, but it takes months to make a decent wine or beer and unless you have a garage or something to do it in it will stink out your house, takes money to buy the equipment, plus I think the people this 'Minimum Price' is aimed at drink a lot more than they could produce at home.

Not sure about spirits, you might need a license to produce it since it's so volatile and amateurs could well blow themselves up, or blind/kill themselves drinking home hooch.

Bottom line home brew wont make a difference IMO

Just another government fuelled ruse to generate more cash and more heartache, financially and literally amongst British people.

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it should be free because those stupid enough to drink until they turn blue will not stop because of increased prices or taxes....

Australia has huge amounts of taxes on smokes and alcohol and people still drink and smoke , so I don't see why targeting everyone including the moderate drinkers will be the answer.

I don't like the government telling me what to do.

Mordack wrote:I don't like the government telling me what to do.

i don't like the whole idea of taxing people on their will
i think its disgusting how all/most(not sure) modern governments need to stoop that low for extra funds for their massively inefficient way of running a country.

So yea im not a huge fan of government telling people what to do either, people know the risks of drinking too much, plus i don't think putting a tax or a minimum price will decrease drinking much anyway

I don't know this seems like closing the barn door after the horses have left. Taxation has never stopped anyone from doing anything, at least not for long. Now don't get me wrong I know the dangers of drinking and all of the societal headaches that go along with it, but lets be realistic if some one wants to get high you are not really going to stop them. This goes for drinking or using illicit drugs. There has been a war on drugs in America for most of my life and the number of people getting high hasn't diminished. So if you think about it blaming bad behavior on outside influences seems somewhat foolish some of the worst things I have done or seen done were committed whilst I was sober.

Mordack wrote:I don't like the government telling me what to do.

have you seen the light to brother?


This is nothing new, Govts world wide are ramping up taxes across the board. all these taxes are a direct result of the inflation caused by the bailouts, some are a direct tax (like food prices, petrol and inflation across the board) and some indirect due to some bogus reason, like this alcohol tax increase.